The Nuclear debate

[Mofra]

You have to sort of give kudos to Dutton for promoting this policy. It's a gamble, but it's getting them headlines and a clear differentiation from the government. They will be promoting the saving money thing heavily but surely - surely - the ALP isn't stupid enough to not capitalise on the fact that setting up nuclear power plants are f***ing expensive, the incidents at Chernobyl and Fukushima, the nuclear waste generated, and that most other OECD countries around the world are phasing theirs out.

Everyone seems to be glossing over the fact that nuclear plants require a hell of a lot of freshwater to keep operating too.

We'd be lucky to get one of the power plants up and running by 2050. The experience of the UK right now should be a cautionary tale.

The time to build them was the 90s. We missed the boat so now the time has passed.

 

[nut]

So it’s a total of 6 gig? Is that it? LMFAO

 

[nut]

Remember when half of France’s nuclear plants were offline ????
So reliable LOL

As Europe Quits Russian Gas, Half of France’s Nuclear Plants Are Off-Line (Published 2022)

France’s state-backed nuclear operator is scrambling to overcome a monthslong crisis to get as many reactors as possible restarted before winter sets in.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Forward Press]

'An absolute stretch': Dutton's promise nuclear will make for cheaper power questioned

Coalition promises that nuclear power will make for cheaper electricity prices don't stack up, according to an energy analyst, who says there was no evidence anywhere in the developed world to suggest new reactors were pushing down prices.

www.abc.net.au

• In short: The Coalition's claims nuclear power will make energy cheaper don't stack up, according to an energy analyst.
• Dr Dylan McConnell said no country in the developed world had built nuclear reactors since the start of the century without incurring significant cost and time blowouts.
• What's next? Dr McConnell said the opposition's nuclear plan wouldn't help Australia manage the rapid retirement of its "ancient" fleet of coal plants.

lmao

Even the economists and scientists are together in opposition on this one.

 

[Engimal v3]

Explain this in detail please.

Buying time for more coal?

Think of it like Elon Musk's HyperLoop; it was sold as a fast means of transport, but its real purpose was to shut down legitimate public transport initiatives in California.

Many theorise that the Coalition has no real interest in nuclear, but are simply saying they do to knock back renewables projects. Given that nuclear power plants take ages to build, they can then extend the life of these coal-fired power stations until they're ready.

 

[peetoo]

I’d prefer being invaded by Indonesia than having Dutton as PM

Indonesia invading is so 1980s

 

[nut]

Indonesia invading is so 1980s

Imagine the street food we would have … bring it on.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

I don't think I've ever been involved in a thread where I haven't been the odd person out who isn't thinking along the lines of everyone else.
It's so refreshing to come across a place where there are equally as intelligent people as me
Hopefully Dutton will be too proud to back down and therefore will never win an election.

 

[DangerousD]

Are there any Labor supporters who believe we should consider nuclear power to supplement other power sources? Or is this just a politically / ideologically driven debate, i.e., if you vote Labor you are against nuclear power?

From my reading Nuclear power is expensive, but it is clean, lasts longer and leaves a much smaller footprint than solar and wind turbines. According to information from the World Nuclear Association, Australia is one of five G20 nations with no operating nuclear power plants, alongside Indonesia, Italy, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Turkey. But when you look closely on the 4 other countries there is a different story.

Italy banned nuclear power after Chernobyl, but in 2023 Italy's parliament reversed a decades-long nuclear ban, allowing the government to include nuclear power in the national energy mix to accelerate the transition away from fossil fuels.
Germany shut down its last nuclear reactor in 2023 but could only do so because it buys so much power from France. France is the biggest exporter of power in Europe and 67% of its power is nuclear.

Turkey also banned nuclear power following Chernobyl, but plans to restart the nuclear power industry are a key aspect of the country's aim for economic growth, and it aims to cut back its vulnerable reliance on Russian gas for electricity.

Indonesia has committed to achieving carbon neutrality by 2060 and this includes nuclear power.

In March 2024 Saudi Arabia announced plans to establish a civil nuclear power industry.

So that just leaves Australia...

I’m a Labor voter and objection is purely based on cost and time to deliver.
The cost to plan, build, run and dispose of nuclear power is huge and if Dutton is to be trusted, a burden carried by the tax payer.

The timeline of 2035-37 is really crazy and goes against predictions and cases in other countries.

QLD, NSW and Vic who hold Labor governments would all have to change the law to even allow nuclear to progress, which becomes a state based election debate.

For anyone saying nuclear will lower bills, I want to slap them.

Australia is the worlds largest exporter of gas, we have a gas industry and gas is dirt cheap, yet we pay one of the highest prices for gas in the world.

Then people say the most expensive form of power generation will lower prices.

The 6-7 reactors will cost around $200B it’s insane

 

[Upgrayedd]

fixed

Nuclear provides some 30% of the worlds total power and the technology involved has come a long way since the 50s, given its also used in submarines and boats since the 60s as well its some what safe

renewables havent worked any where and what materials are required to manufacture them and where do they come from?

The technology is also expensive as hell for submarines and are only used over Diesel is to be submerged for a lot longer then traditional diesel submarines. Same as planes the use is being able to stay in the air longer. There's a reason why only like 7 countries have nuclear subs/planes.

The reason there isn't more is it's incredibly expensive and complex to build, and far cheaper having diesel motors still. Even fuel wise. It's saving CO2 and relatively safe.. That's literally the only benefit. The cost, maintenance and price of building is ****ed. Plus the waste disposal means it's still cleaner to mine the shitty acidic lithium and deal with that waste product then build nuclear. As people have said. It's a ****ing insane idea. It might be cheaper to literally burn cash to power a turbine then to run a power plant,

The smart thing would be to look at tidal in the northwest but I think we'll destroy the world before that pays itself off

 

[TheEscapeClub]

in the words of trottsky, just another usefull idiot"

​

Blood cobalt​

One of the poorest countries on Earth is paying a heavy price for the world’s green energy revolution.

Nicole’s child is gone. The brutal truth about your smartphone

One of the poorest countries on Earth is paying a heavy price for the world's green energy revolution.

www.abc.net.au

You really need to get away from posting things like this, they're not required.

As a Dockers fan, if you're in WA, you only need to look at the resources expended in mining the rare earths for the manufacture of EV batteries that is going on in your own state.

I love how this announcement from Dutton has detonated so many of the talking heads of the left, it's hilarious to watch.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Listening to a constitutional lawyer from NSW today and she reckons that the feds will be able to overrule the states.

It would be awesome to seem them brought to heel after some of the shit they pulled during COVID.

 

[rdhopkins2]

Dutton can go nuke his plans for nuclear power. The $$ and environmental costs are too great.

Can’t wait for the Peter Garrett reaction!

 

[Swan4Life]

Rowan Dean knocked it for six this morning:

To paraphrase Mr Bowen: ‘If you don’t like our whale-killing, koala-killing, rusting Chinese windfarms, vast acreages of solar panels covering and destroying arable land, environment-razing transmission lines and soaring electricity bills… then don’t vote for us.’

 

[Festerz]

This might not be of interest to anyone else here - certainly not anyone quoting Rowan Dean as a commentary source FFS - but this video provides some important information on the Constitutional perspectives of the Coalition's nuclear power proposal.

 

[Rob R]

in the words of trottsky, just another usefull idiot"

​

Blood cobalt​

One of the poorest countries on Earth is paying a heavy price for the world’s green energy revolution.

Nicole’s child is gone. The brutal truth about your smartphone

One of the poorest countries on Earth is paying a heavy price for the world's green energy revolution.

www.abc.net.au

That's more a reflection on mining companies especially (but not exclusively) ones owned by a large dictatorship to our north treating our poor African brothers like it is still the 18th century (shouldn't have been acceptable back then and is far worse now)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[nut]

This might not be of interest to anyone else here - certainly not anyone quoting Rowan Dean as a commentary source FFS - but this video provides some important information on the Constitutional perspectives of the Coalition's nuclear power proposal.

So all that money the states spent banning nuclear was for nothing? Is that right?

 

[Forward Press]

So all that money the states spent banning nuclear was for nothing? Is that right?

The interpretation of the constitution has been largely in favour of the Federal government since the 1930s or so anyway.

It's a natural application of the foreign affairs power following the Franklin Dams case which effectively gave the Feds near limitless political power in combination with their financial hold on the states.

The COVID era border control laws were the only significant push back by states in modern times upheld by the High Court.

 

[Gough]

So all that money the states spent banning nuclear was for nothing? Is that right?

It's as if they've learned nothing from Robodebt, who cares that it might be illegal? That's not going to stop us.

 

[Gavin Excell]

So all that money the states spent banning nuclear was for nothing? Is that right?

Just as well Moreland City Council have their ban in place

 

[Festerz]

So all that money the states spent banning nuclear was for nothing? Is that right?

Well yes, that's likely correct in a legislative sense. And I'm embarrassed to admit that I posted something earlier today claiming otherwise despite the fact constitutional law was one of my favourite u/g subjects back in the day. I've deleted my post for posterity and to avoid ongoing embarrassment. I was 100% wrong.

Should this proposal ever get the legislative backing of both the upper and lower houses of Federal Parliament, there are seemingly no barriers to the Commonwealth using existing Constitutional provisions relating to Commonwealth powers to overcome any legislative state/local and regional barriers.

BUT as Professor TwoMey AO states at the end of her video, this matter will be decided on economic, political and practical feasibility terms and not on Constitutional matters. And that is where the proposal, as put forward by Dutton, fails most spectacularly imho.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

This might not be of interest to anyone else here - certainly not anyone quoting Rowan Dean as a commentary source FFS - but this video provides some important information on the Constitutional perspectives of the Coalition's nuclear power proposal.

ty for sharing.

 

[nut]

Well yes, that's likely correct in a legislative sense. And I'm embarrassed to admit that I posted something earlier today claiming otherwise despite the fact constitutional law was one of my favourite u/g subjects back in the day. I've deleted my post for posterity and to avoid ongoing embarrassment. I was 100% wrong.

Should this proposal ever get the legislative backing of both the upper and lower houses of Federal Parliament, there are seemingly no barriers to the Commonwealth using existing Constitutional provisions relating to Commonwealth powers to overcome any legislative state/local and regional barriers.

BUT as Professor TwoMey AO states at the end of her video, this matter will be decided on economic, political and practical feasibility terms and not on Constitutional matters. And that is where the proposal, as put forward by Dutton, fails most spectacularly imho.

After the way the Australian people voted against the Voice, I dont hold much confidence in the intelligence of electorate.

We really are a dumb country …

 

[Dockerau]

You really need to get away from posting things like this, they're not required.

As a Dockers fan, if you're in WA, you only need to look at the resources expended in mining the rare earths for the manufacture of EV batteries that is going on in your own state.

I love how this announcement from Dutton has detonated so many of the talking heads of the left, it's hilarious to watch.

keeps me in a good paying low stress job of not doing a whole heap, the funniest part of the renewables is convincing a one of those muppets that believes in the renewables scam, that the use of coal in the manufacturing of a solar panel or turbine is one of the key minerals required

its a no wonder the big mining companies and governments love the renewables

 

[Dockerau]

That's more a reflection on mining companies especially (but not exclusively) ones owned by a large dictatorship to our north treating our poor African brothers like it is still the 18th century (shouldn't have been acceptable back then and is far worse now)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

its disgusting how people turn a blind eye tho the use of slave and child labour! youd think all those self righteous, BLM, left leaning governments and other groups would be all over this. they ignore it and only shows there true intentions. green is the new red