The off topic thread 6.0

[Art Vandelay_]

Troon does look great Bojan KantKick even has a typically British backdrop of dreary, overcast and rainy conditions.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Firstly, to go full Cruyff on you it's incumbent you philistine

Haha fair.

I can safely say that a couple key reasons render my interest in US politics on a left v right basis as non existent, it isn't that high for Aus politics tbh either.. but I digress. 1.Gun control. 2. Their absurd approach to health care via a largely capitalist mindset whereby they (Dr's and big pharma) don't aim to keep you alive because that's good for you or the country as a whole, but rather they can extract more money out of you that way. They're a broken nation. I couldn't tell you one tenet of Biden's administration. But I can safely assume they're better than what the wannabe despot has to offer. Inciting a riot because he took his bat and ball and stormed off home something didn't go his way, to all the allegations of impropriety, and the felony convictions are not the qualities one wants in the leader of one of this world's largest nations.

Biden has and always will be a warmonger. Same as Antony Blinken and Jake Sullivan who both have never known a war they didn't want to send others to fight in.

America tolerance of lobbyist and foreign interest groups is beyond the pale and unfortunately the UK since the 90's and I assume Australia have followed suit.

Another thing to consider is the history of the media in the United States and the erosion of trust. This came to the fore in 1987 when Reagan vetoed a bill that would write into law the fairness doctrine requiring broadcasters to present divergent views on controversial topics. Fox News started broadcasting a year later and there is no requirement for the media to tell the truth. I'm no fan of guns but if I watched right wing media every day then I probably would be. I would probably hate Donald Trump and all conservatives if I watched the view, MSDNC and CNN every day too.

I wouldn't worry too much about either parties policies. Both find it very difficult to execute anything that aren't in the interest of their donors.

Allegations of impropriety and felony convictions - Are you talking about Bill Clinton, JFK, Joe Biden, Richard Nixon, Donald Trump or all?

Careful mate. Criticising big pharma is taboo on this site haha. This program is brought to you by Pfizer.

If I was to suddenly become a US citizen, and compulsory voting came in I'd vote Biden purely for how reprehensible Trump is as a human being. He cannot be voted for by any sane person, no matter the opposition the democrats select. This is far different to our last election here, whereby as someone who'd never not voted LNP at an election voted for my local ALP member as voting for Scomo and Dutton to get back in was just not something that seemed logical. Scomo and Biden aren't not similar. Albanese and Labor were a viable alternative, the felon isn't.

I'm thankful that I will never be put in that position. if it was compulsory then I would find an independent who I knew had no chance and vote for them. If you vote for Biden, who are you actually voting for? Because the citizens of the United States have been lied to for quite some time. If you knew about Biden voting history you may well find him as abhorrent as Trump.

That said, there should be a movement within the democrats to move on Biden for someone else and that isn't a pro-trump move that should be interpreted as endorsing the Trump/GOP attacks on Biden as being successful but rather an anti-trump position. Picking someone who doesn't come across half the time as senile would surely increase the chances of Democrat re-election.

Well yeah the smart play would have been replacing Biden two years ago to give Harris time. Whoever takes over now will lose badly and won't stand a chance next time either. Harris, Newsome, etc. Yuck. Republicans are no better though. They are waiting until Trump leaves in 4.5 years and they can go back to the old days.

As for the last bit maybe I have missed it but the lack of condemnation in recent pages and exchanges for Trump, as well as openly critical of Biden could be leading to the perception you support Trump. Rightly or wrongly.

We all know what Trump is and what Trump isn't. Getting knickers in a twist about what each party might do happens in every election. It is propaganda.

I don't need to condemn Trump, there are plenty of others doing that. I just love the hypocrisy / ignorance from people that have no idea about Joe Biden and what he really thinks. Anyone can check his voting history. If RFK Jr was a bit more moderate on vaccinations and a few other things then I'd lean towards him probably and I have a lot of sympathy for his family and finds Biden attitude towards him abhorrent. Who wants an independently minded opponent haha.

I am as antiwar as they come and I hate what the Democratic Party and their donors/handlers have done to the world whilst Biden has been in office. I have little faith that Trump will be able to slow it down either. When the ideologues want war they generally get it and it usually lasts a generation.

We just had an election here. Didn't end up voting but had the same propaganda rubbish in the lead up. Reform will deport everyone, Labour will let everyone in, Conservatives will stop the boats despite doing the opposite for the last 14 years. They are all campaigners who don't give a shit about Joe Public. I'm very disillusioned about the whole thing and so are the majority of voters (in the UK at least). I posted this elsewhere on the site but there is a very good website -https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ where you select your favoured group of policies in 16 areas and it tells you who to vote for. based on that. Here was the consensus on the night of the UK election:


Here are the results:


People are sheep.

 

[Lebbo73]

No I just said the Nazis also appointed all their acolytes. So I’m implying it’s a dangerous move. I think people are nuts if they vote for him. Respect both sides of politics but this is far right looney tunes. I’d say indict the moron but his judges are making some eye opening decisions to protect him.

No they aren’t. They’re just following the Constitution. It’s what every judge and politician is bound by.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I did. And I feel you’ve been harshly misrepresented here. For what it’s worth I would have you my top tier of posters in my time on this forum. In my opinion anyway.

Misher I’m sorry for your loss of your friend and understand full well your comments regarding the grief always being present no matter the duration of time. And can understand if that has perhaps contributed to any misinterpretation of what was being said. I believe the animosity evident in your posts isn’t necessarily reflective of what they were saying. Sorry again for the traumatic events you’ve described here.

I don’t believe either candidate is fit for purpose and can only look on in bewilderment at the state of US politics and the division within that country. Genuinely frightening stuff. The landscape and outlook for them is dire.




Those comments are sickening. Amazing he actually said that, particularly when so much of the weapons provided in this genocide have been exported from the US (amongst other nations).

Top post mate

 

[DBAH0]

And there we go.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Biden has and always will be a warmonger. Same as Antony Blinken and Jake Sullivan who both have never known a war they didn't want to send others to fight in.

Is that surprising. It's one of the things the USA is notorious for.
Sticking its nose into foreign affairs and encouraging conflicts. Usually to advance its own greedy interests.

America tolerance of lobbyist and foreign interest groups is beyond the pale and unfortunately the UK since the 90's and I assume Australia have followed suit.

We're selling too much assets to the Chinese.

Another thing to consider is the history of the media in the United States and the erosion of trust. This came to the fore in 1987 when Reagan vetoed a bill that would write into law the fairness doctrine requiring broadcasters to present divergent views on controversial topics. Fox News started broadcasting a year later and there is no requirement for the media to tell the truth. I'm no fan of guns but if I watched right wing media every day then I probably would be. I would probably hate Donald Trump and all conservatives if I watched the view, MSDNC and CNN every day too.

I wouldn't worry too much about either parties policies. Both find it very difficult to execute anything that aren't in the interest of their donors.

Somewhere the media lost its way. Wasn't too many decades ago their job was to report facts. Now far too much is editorials. Harder to find information that's presented as just that.

Allegations of impropriety and felony convictions - Are you talking about Bill Clinton, JFK, Joe Biden, Richard Nixon, Donald Trump or all?

Tighten it to convictions then.

Careful mate. Criticising big pharma is taboo on this site haha. This program is brought to you by Pfizer.

Should send USA back to the stone age and start over. Come back with no reference to arms in the constitution and health care in line with most other advanced nations. Not motivated by $$$ but motivated by the desire to help ill citizens.

I'm thankful that I will never be put in that position. if it was compulsory then I would find an independent who I knew had no chance and vote for them. If you vote for Biden, who are you actually voting for? Because the citizens of the United States have been lied to for quite some time. If you knew about Biden voting history you may well find him as abhorrent as Trump.

I hate voting outside the major two. Preferential system leads to the vote going to one of them anyway (in the two electorate zones I've been in anyway) so cut out the middle men of minor parties and pick the one I could tolerate slightly more.

Don't think you could list anything that'd put Biden on par with Trump. January 6 and felony conviction will leave him as the worse of the two in my eyes.

We all know what Trump is and what Trump isn't. Getting knickers in a twist about what each party might do happens in every election. It is propaganda.

I don't need to condemn Trump, there are plenty of others doing that. I just love the hypocrisy / ignorance from people that have no idea about Joe Biden and what he really thinks. Anyone can check his voting history. If RFK Jr was a bit more moderate on vaccinations and a few other things then I'd lean towards him probably and I have a lot of sympathy for his family and finds Biden attitude towards him abhorrent. Who wants an independently minded opponent haha.

I am as antiwar as they come and I hate what the Democratic Party and their donors/handlers have done to the world whilst Biden has been in office. I have little faith that Trump will be able to slow it down either. When the ideologues want war they generally get it and it usually lasts a generation.

We just had an election here. Didn't end up voting but had the same propaganda rubbish in the lead up. Reform will deport everyone, Labour will let everyone in, Conservatives will stop the boats despite doing the opposite for the last 14 years. They are all campaigners who don't give a shit about Joe Public. I'm very disillusioned about the whole thing and so are the majority of voters (in the UK at least). I posted this elsewhere on the site but there is a very good website -https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/ where you select your favoured group of policies in 16 areas and it tells you who to vote for. based on that. Here was the consensus on the night of the UK election:

Here are the results:

All well and good to highlight Biden and his failings, but when the discussion started over an assassination attempt and all that followed that it can be, and probably has by some, be construed as whataboutism. Deflecting from Trump and the multitude of reasons why some in his own country he's trying to rule by years end would attempt to kill him.

As for me, I don't follow the ins and outs of day-to-day US politics and how it affects life here. My interest in the wider world centres around my area. To that end we'll be the 11th largest metro area in 10 years. Projected to from 250k in 2020 to 350k by 2030s. A nation the size of the USA and housing developments squish people in like sardines and prices are rising at astronomical rates being unable to build to meet demand.

I'm sure the initial bemusement at the yanks being stupid enough to re-elect a felon and ask him to run one of the largest nations despite being unable to abide by its laws, or accept its democracy will fade quickly as issues closer to home concern me.

Wouldn't even be surprised if he's sworn in and pardons himself the same day haha.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Troon does look great Bojan KantKick even has a typically British backdrop of dreary, overcast and rainy conditions.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Not sure the relevance of raising Andrews other than I was critical of him during covid. But as I said in my first comment on this topic I haven't rationalised killing Trump, the world being better without Trump or that I would gladly enjoy a world without him. I made it clear that crossing that line into genocidal dictator is the point where the attitude shifts, and that doesn't apply to DT.

As for Andrews and the tenuous linking of the two men, I criticised his leadership, never wished him dead though.

I had no idea you had previously made comments critical of Daniel Andrews. My point was that, like Donald Trump, he's a polarising politician. If you switch Andrews into the conversation with the implication that his death would be a good thing then maybe it's wake up call for some that this line of argument is immoral.

 

[SM]

And there we go.

But bojan told me this wasn't happening.

 

[Jatz]

I honestly think part of the reason it hasn't happened already is no one wants to step up into what seems like a doomed campaign. There's very little upside for anyone else to put their name to this now.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I honestly think part of the reason it hasn't happened already is no one wants to step up into what seems like a doomed campaign. There's very little upside for anyone else to put their name to this now.

Disagree. No chance with Biden but if they get the right candidate it will improve chances. It hasn’t happened yet because Biden was refusing

 

[Jatz]

Disagree. No chance with Biden but if they get the right candidate it will improve chances. It hasn’t happened yet because Biden was refusing

Bookies disagree with you. Trump is a heavy fav, Harris very much into second fav but miles off.

If you think about it, why should she go in now? She can wait 4 years, have a full run at it and won't have to go up against one of the most dangerous/volatile candidates the country has ever seen. He's vitriolic, doesn't respect women etc etc.

There is very little incentive for her to pick up the pieces and go up against him this late in the piece.

 

[Zidane98]

To

Bookies disagree with you. Trump is a heavy fav, Harris very much into second fav but miles off.

If you think about it, why should she go in now? She can wait 4 years, have a full run at it and won't have to go up against one of the most dangerous/volatile candidates the country has ever seen. He's vitriolic, doesn't respect women etc etc.

There is very little incentive for her to pick up the pieces and go up against him this late in the piece.

Bookies didn't give Trump much of a chance in 2016.

 

[Jatz]

To


Bookies didn't give Trump much of a chance in 2016.

They're not the be all and end all but they're in the business of making money. Far more often than not, they're right.

Of course someone could come in and turn the tide, it just seems increasingly unlikely.

 

[Bostonian]

Trump's new VP called Trump America's Hitler ...says it all. Then sells out after being promised VP. Couldn't make this stuff up.

So just like Kamala then.

So apparently you don't need to make it up.

 

[SM]

Bookies disagree with you. Trump is a heavy fav, Harris very much into second fav but miles off.

If you think about it, why should she go in now? She can wait 4 years, have a full run at it and won't have to go up against one of the most dangerous/volatile candidates the country has ever seen. He's vitriolic, doesn't respect women etc etc.

There is very little incentive for her to pick up the pieces and go up against him this late in the piece.

You don't think the bookies are factoring into the pricing Biden not stepping down? Once he does and once people get a sense of the actual public sentiment to a Harris v Trump race then you might see the odds correct.

Are you really asking what the incentive is to stopping Trump winning the election? Gee I'll have a think about that one.

 

[Jatz]

You don't think the bookies are factoring into the pricing Biden not stepping down? Once he does and once people get a sense of the actual public sentiment to a Harris v Trump race then you might see the odds correct.

Are you really asking what the incentive is to stopping Trump winning the election? Gee I'll have a think about that one.

No, I don't. Biden is currently $24 to win - the market has clearly already conceded it's incredibly unlikely that he continues to run.

You're confusing the two here. Yes, there's obvious incentive to not want Trump in office. There is also a lot of incentive not to be the candidate to jump in late on and try and take him on, when you're behind the 8 ball and you're coming up against a bully.

Why would anyone voluntarily put a losing campaign on their political career?

 

[SM]

No, I don't. Biden is currently $24 to win - the market has clearly already conceded it's incredibly unlikely that he continues to run.

You're confusing the two here. Yes, there's obvious incentive to not want Trump in office. There is also a lot of incentive not to be the candidate to jump in late on and try and take him on, when you're behind the 8 ball and you're coming up against a bully.

Why would anyone voluntarily put a losing campaign on their political career?

I'm not confusing anything, I'm saying there's a very clear and immediate incentive for her to run now to try to stop Trump taking office. Conceding the election and saying she'll just wait for four years time and that there's no downside to doing so is to suggest that Trump's term in office would have no downside.

Why would anyone assume it's a loss? If she thinks it's an automatic loss this time then there's zero chance she gets elected in four years time either. Just because there's no Trump in four years doesn't mean he won't have his VP or another candidate ready to go.

 

[Bostonian]

With Obama inserting himself into the narrative I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to get his Mrs into the picture.

 

[SM]

With Obama inserting himself into the narrative I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to get his Mrs into the picture.

Could be the gamechanger.

 

[Bostonian]

Why would anyone voluntarily put a losing campaign on their political career?

For money and fame.

 

[SM]

For money and fame.

Money??

 

[Bostonian]

Money??

Lots of it.

Have you seen how much some of these politicians are worth?

Insider trading, kick backs.

The higher up the totem you are the more you can bring in.

US Senators only make around 175k a year I believe.

 

[SM]

Lots of it.

Have you seen how much some of these politicians are worth?

Insider trading, kick backs.

The higher up the totem you are the more you can bring in.

US Senators only make around 175k a year I believe.

You think running a failed Presidential campaign makes someone money?

 

[Jatz]

I'm not confusing anything, I'm saying there's a very clear and immediate incentive for her to run now to try to stop Trump taking office. Conceding the election and saying she'll just wait for four years time and that there's no downside to doing so is to suggest that Trump's term in office would have no downside.

Why would anyone assume it's a loss? If she thinks it's an automatic loss this time then there's zero chance she gets elected in four years time either. Just because there's no Trump in four years doesn't mean he won't have his VP or another candidate ready to go.

There's a very clear difference between knowing it's problematic for Trump to get in but actually being able to do something about it.

Because they're far further into the campaign than she'd normally have started, he's got a massive lead already and he's got a legion of sheep that are more loyal to him than to the Republican party. She'll be far more likely to get in in 4 years time than she will now.

Don't underestimate the fact that she's a black woman either (same as Michelle) - it shouldn't matter but the US have a history of that being an issue. No two ways about it, if she decides to take it up, she'll be pushing shit uphill in a major way.