Strategy The season is lost, what should we do with the remaining 19 games?

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adelaidecrows

adelaidecrows

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Jun 6, 2010
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Viana do Castelo (Portugal)
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Adelaide
All is not lost in our rebuild, I believe it can be resurrected with some short term pain. Nicks shat the bed as he became intent on coaching for his job over building a list that can challenge for the Premiership.

I think the club has to draw a line in the sand and put a line through a group of players that wont be involved. Its a bloody tough list and some...ok just 1 player I feel bad for putting on it. But wrong age at the wrong club. A double wammy.

Players who should immediately be removed from the side or playing contention;
1. Taylor Walker - Times up, our goal was finals this year he is wasting a spot in the 22. Not a great way to end a career but he knew the risks
2. Rory Sloane - Hasn't played this year but we have reached a stage where any selection in the Sanfl or at AFL is wasting his and the clubs time.
3. Brodie Smith - He just isn't going to be part of the next premiership. Had we made finals this year he may have got another year. But done.
4. Chris Burgess - This one was a head scratcher, break glass in emergency type player. The list has burned to the ground and his playing time is wasting someones development spot.
5. Rory Laird - It was either Laird or Crouch and at a younger age, Crouch produces more bang for the buck in the middle.
6. Lachlan Murphy - Just not a best 25 player. Never has been. No point pretending anymore.
7. Lachlan Sholl - Same as Murphy, just not a best 25 player.
8. Harry Schoenberg - As above, reached a ceiling, doesn't do nearly enough for a player in his position.
9. Ned McHenry - Just another meh player that isn't even close to best 25 material.
10. Elliot Himmelberg, break glass in case of emergency tall, but done.
11. Patrick Parnell, like Sholl, Murphy and McHenry. Just not required.

7 of these players played today. 7! let that sink in to how bad our selection is going.

Players who are lucky to not be on that list
1. Sam Berry - its hard not to believe that if we were any other team other than WCE he may have been delisted. Such is his fall from grace.
2. Matthew Crouch - My pick was Crouch but a lot will pick Laird. But in my view only one can stay.
3. Ben Keays - Cooked and is a squad depth at best player. Only selected him in the team because of injuries.
4. Darcy Fogarty - Ive nicknamed him DND, 'Do nothing Darcy' He isn't a deep forward. He is a running player in a big body. I think put a strong fitness based Preseason and put him up on the flank and let him be that creative player.
5. Keirin Strachan - just lol. Waste of space, pure emergency.

My side moving forward from the Carlton Game
Injuries: Riley Thilthorpe, Nick Murray, Wayne Milera (season), Zak Taylor


FF: Luke Pedlar, Lachlan Gollant, Izak Rankine
HF: Josh Rachele, Darcy Fogarty, Brayden Cook
C: Luke Nankervis, Jordan Dawson, Josh Soligo
HB: Chayce Jones, Mark Keane, Max Michalanney
FB: Josh Worrell, Jordan Butts, Mitch Hinge
R: Reilly O'Brien, Matt Crouch, Billy Dowling

Int: Oscar Ryan, Sam Berry, Daniel Curtin, Charlie Edwards, Ben Keays

Other viable options: Hugh Bond, James Borlase, Karl Gallagher, Will Hamill

The club needs to demand games are put into these players. thats 19 games our young players could add to their tally and gain experience.

Midfield rotation
Rucks - O'Brien, Dawson, Crouch, Dowling, Rankine, Pedlar, Soligo, Rachele, Cook, Edwards, Berry
Notes: Crouch reduces his workload over time as match fitness increases with a goal to be strictly under 10% centre clearances and stoppages by the end of the year.

The club needs to sack Nicks regardless, I think it will come mid year.
 
There will be no lines ruled. Nicks will pick the same team. Sloane will probably get a gig soon. There won’t be any extra development. We’ll play it out until finals are “mathematically impossible”, then win some dead rubbers at the end that impact our draft position.

That’s exactly what’s going to happen from here, little wonder we don’t get anywhere.
 

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What we should do is open up the gameplan, let the players play on instinct rather than instruction, encourage them to take it on and play fast attacking footy since we have nothing to lose.

Regarding players, I have no idea how Gollant survives your cull of key forwards. What has he shown?

Burgess isn't the sexiest of forwards but like him or not he has kicked a few goals this year. Harsh to throw him into the abyss.

Having Hamill be listed as viable is mindboggling too. Too easily thrown around, prone to concussion and doesn't do much damage with ball in hand.
 
All is not lost. I actually feel quite bullish once Nicks is sacked and i hope Roo, Reid, Kelly and Ogilvie are moved on at the same time if our club is genuinely serious for success. I hope they don't just sack our fraudulent coach but actually look at list management and recruiting which has been shambolic since Roo had influence and he hired his mate Reid. Roo, Reid, Kelly, Ogilvie must be shown the door finally. Once we hire a quality head of football, quality head of recruitment and head of list management i would look for a coach that can actually give clear instruction with a gameplan that will stand up. Buckley would be a good option but lets look at all options for the right person.

I believe a blight style cleanout of senior players must take place. Smith,Walker, Sloane, Laird(traded) must be retired or in the case of Laird traded. Players Sholl, McHenry, Keays, Jones, Parnell, Murphy, Himmelberg, Burgess, Berry, Hamill, Schoenberg, Milera, Borlase, Strachan must be exited as quick as possible as they aren't good enough. Crouch isn't the future and once the contract is up in 2025, out.

That leaves a core group of
Dawson, Soligo, Rankine, Thilthoroe, Murray, Rachele, Curtin, Edwards, Michalanney, Worrell, Butts, Nankervis, Keane, ROB, Fogarty, Dowling, Taylor, Ryan, Hinge, Cook, Pedlar. Then you bring in pick 1-3, Welsh, Petty? and some genuine experienced talent in the trade. Our goal should be to trade in an elite mid, offer them a million for 6 years as we have the money. Our midfield needs help. Combine that with a quality coach and i believe we can make finals as soon as next year.
 
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I said it in another thread. When lesser experienced players like Worrall, Murray, soligo, rachele and michaelanney overtake the on field output, value and consistancy of more experienced players like fog, Jones, mchenry, Murphy etc, it's time to phase the latter out.

They won't just turn into decent players, at their age they should be there already.

We were probably foolish expecting the rebuild to be complete in one phase. The club has had some great hits in the rebuild, but there will nearly always be misses and those misses need to be replaced. Phase 2 of the rebuild is plugging those holes, not necessarily rebuilding again. 2 or 3 nice trades this off season would be handy.
 
Samcro24 said:
There will be no lines ruled. Nicks will pick the same team. Sloane will probably get a gig soon. There won’t be any extra development. We’ll play it out until finals are “mathematically impossible”, then win some dead rubbers at the end that impact our draft position.

That’s exactly what’s going to happen from here, little wonder we don’t get anywhere.
Click to expand...

Building continuity credits for our 2025 assault. We know what we're doing.
 
Develop midfielders.

We are here because we can't develop midfielders.

So the next 19 rounds need to be getting Soligo 19 more games as a pure mid.

Its also finding his partner in there. Be it Dowling, Pedlar or Rankine/Rachele

I still have hope Schoenberg makes it.

Edit - it also gives our young defenders 19 more games together
 
MsTopG said:
All is not lost. I actually feel quite bullish once Nicks is sacked and i hope Roo, Reid, Kelly and Ogilvie are moved on at the same time if our club is genuinely serious for success. I hope they don't just sack our fraudulent coach but actually look at list management and recruiting which has been shambolic since Roo had influence and he hired his mate Reid. Roo, Reid, Kelly, Ogilvie must be shown the door finally. Once we hire a quality head of football, quality head of recruitment and head of list management i would look for a coach that can actually give clear instruction with a gameplan that will stand up. Buckley would be a good option but lets look at all options for the right person.

I believe a blight style cleanout of senior players must take place. Smith,Walker, Sloane, Laird(traded) must be retired or in the case of Laird traded. Players Sholl, McHenry, Keays, Jones, Parnell, Murphy, Himmelberg, Burgess, Berry, Hamill, Schoenberg, Milera, Borlase, Strachan must be exited as quick as possible as they aren't good enough. Crouch isn't the future and once the contract is up in 2025, out.

That leaves a core group of
Dawson, Soligo, Rankine, Thilthoroe, Murray, Rachele, Curtin, Edwards, Michalanney, Worrell, Butts, Nankervis, Keane, ROB, Fogarty, Dowling, Taylor, Ryan, Hinge, Cook, Pedlar. Then you bring in pick 1-3, Welsh, Petty? and some genuine experienced talent in the trade. Our goal should be to trade in an elite mid, offer them a million for 6 years as we have the money. Our midfield needs help. Combine that with a quality coach and i believe we can make finals as soon as next year.
Click to expand...
I agree with this...

Its time to be daring..

Those with draft value are

Laird, Keays, Fogarty, Murphy (barely), Jones

I would use these and package up some draft picks to try and get some higher up the draft or get some better mids somehow

Focus on the next 3 years of drafts to get some gun midfielders in

From a footy department perspecytive...

Agree.. Nicks, Ogilvy and Reid need to go. Reid been in the job 10 years and we have missed finals for the last 7.

He is the list manager... get him out now... he doesnt deserve the job.. only in there because of his old man... we need to stop this jobs for the boys bullshit.
 
I'll begin this post by noting that none of the following will actually happen. What will happen is a season-long version of our usual game pattern, which is that our season will slowly deteriorate until the point where success is no longer possible, and then once it is too late we will suddenly discover some form (not much, just some) and win just enough matches to declare the season an honourable loss despite missing the finals, and loudly proclaim that next year, we're ready.


In terms of this year, I wouldn't make quite as sweeping changes as OP prescribes. For the culture of the group I don't think we want to sweep out half the team in one fell swoop. I would instead base it on which senior players are not performing. For example, I wouldn't remove Walker from the team yet because the team loves the guy and he's probably our best performing forward right now. Instead, we should identify which senior players are performing the worst in any given week and replace them with the best performing youth from the SANFL. Keep doing this, one or two players per week, until we don't have any strong performing youth still playing in the SANFL. This isn't rocket science, frankly it's something we should be doing even if we were contending.

Beyond team selection, we need to get serious about a gameplan. High and long down the line should be considered the last resort, something that the team gets yelled at for during review if it happens unnecessarily. This is not just about the player with the ball - it is the responsibility of the players ahead of the ball to create opportunities for the ball-carrier. This includes both simple opportunities (e.g. players leading or in space to be hit easily) and attacking opportunities (e.g. player in the centre of the ground). Let the players know that if they are the ball-carrier, once those opportunities are created they have both a license and an expectation to go for them. Take the attacking option if you think you can nail it, otherwise take the simple option, but don't just hold it up and then boot it long unless there are no good options provided. The amount of acceptable risk is a function of how attacking the option is. This applies both in the forward-line (for our F50 entries) and also throughout the midfield (for our defensive rebounds).


I don't expect any miracles this year but it would be nice to see us actually working towards something. Instead, everything we see and hear from the club seems to be the footy club equivalent of someone turning the key over and over again as the car repeatedly stalls, expecting it to eventually start.
 
My only problem with the idea of pumping games into the young players to fast-track their development is that it ignores the fact that we don't seem able to develop players, regardless of how many games we do or don't put into them.

How many of the players we've drafted since 2017 have actually improved significantly during their time at the club? Soligo looks to have at least maintained his level, Worrell looks solid. But other wise... Jones, Berry, Rachele, Pedlar, Schoenberg, Fogarty, Sholl etc etc... These guys are no better (and in some cases actually worse) now than they were when they played their first game. Hell, Sholl managed to get not 1 but 2 rising star nominations in his first couple of years. I exclude Thilthorpe from the list just because the big guys sometimes need more time, and by all reports he was looking good prior to his injury this year. Michalanney is only in his 2nd year so probably unfair to be too harsh on him, but looking at the way he's been playing this year and the standard of his ball use, it is just miles off where he was last year. Again, he's actually getting worse under whatever development program we have in place at this club.

As much as we like to hang sh*t on Hamish and his drafting (fair enough in case of some of the obvious first round duds like Gallucci, McAsey, etc), there remains the open question of whether he's picking the wrong players or if we're just not capable of developing them. So then you have to ask what's the point of clearing out all these players and drafting in replacements if we're just going to get the exact same result with the next batch of players?

I think those of us on this board have a tendency to create an idealised view in our minds of how good these untried players we've got are going to be. "Let's get in Curtin, Edwards, Ryan, Dowling, Taylor etc, they'll be the core of our list for the next 10 years etc etc". But the sad fact is that these guys are all coming through the same development program as the other players mentioned above. And if that program is ****ed, then why would we expect these guys to be any better than the others? Best we can hope for is to get the first year guys like Curtin etc in for a few good games before they get thoroughly Adelaided by our development. And if the problem is Hamish's drafting then why do we have any optimism that these guys will be better when they, too, were drafted by Hamish?
 

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cmndstab said:
Beyond team selection, we need to get serious about a gameplan. High and long down the line should be considered the last resort, something that the team gets yelled at for during review if it happens unnecessarily. This is not just about the player with the ball - it is the responsibility of the players ahead of the ball to create opportunities for the ball-carrier. This includes both simple opportunities (e.g. players leading or in space to be hit easily) and attacking opportunities (e.g. player in the centre of the ground). Let the players know that if they are the ball-carrier, once those opportunities are created they have both a license and an expectation to go for them. Take the attacking option if you think you can nail it, otherwise take the simple option, but don't just hold it up and then boot it long unless there are no good options provided. The amount of acceptable risk is a function of how attacking the option is. This applies both in the forward-line (for our F50 entries) and also throughout the midfield (for our defensive rebounds).

Highlighted text is key for me. There's been quite a few occasions where we mark at half-back or between HB and wing, then hesitate and have to go long. Other teams look for the short hit-up towards the midfield, then progress from there....usually with running half-backs moving past, whereas we always seem to be stagnant, with no-one presenting up. Yes, there's some risk in this, but other teams do it regularly, and whilst it may not always work, they generally find a way to get marks inside F50 or just outside. It's a risk vs reward game after all.
Click to expand...
 
Time to just forget about the season, forget about finals, they were taken away from us last season and it has affected some of the players. Play mainly the younger players. Yes, got to give them chances and experience. Some will succeed, others won't. Bring in somebody who has not played yet, maybe he will be the difference.
 
Cap said:
Develop midfielders.

We are here because we can't develop midfielders.

So the next 19 rounds need to be getting Soligo 19 more games as a pure mid.

Its also finding his partner in there. Be it Dowling, Pedlar or Rankine/Rachele

I still have hope Schoenberg makes it.

Edit - it also gives our young defenders 19 more games together
Click to expand...

How do you develop midfielders if you don’t bother to take them in the first round?

As someone has said we haven’t taken a first round midfielder since Dangerfield!

Rowey said on radio this morning our list management choices for first round since 2016 have deplorable.
 
kirky said:
How do you develop midfielders if you don’t bother to take them in the first round?

As someone has said we haven’t taken a first round midfielder since Dangerfield!

Rowey said on radio this morning our list management choices for first round since 2016 have deplorable.
Click to expand...
Funny, I thought both Rash and Peds were midfielders. So was Rank as a junior.

The question should be, why don’t we play our first round draftee mids in the midfield?
 
kirky said:
How do you develop midfielders if you don’t bother to take them in the first round?

As someone has said we haven’t taken a first round midfielder since Dangerfield!

Rowey said on radio this morning our list management choices for first round since 2016 have deplorable.
Click to expand...
Absolutely l, didnt the club tell us that Rankine and Rachelle are meant to also be playing midfield time ?

Pedlar is also a 1st rounder?

Don't get me wrong, we should have gone hard at actual bona fide midfielder.
 
Rory Walkerfield said:
Funny, I thought both Rash and Peds were midfielders. So was Rank as a junior.

The question should be, why don’t we play our first round draftee mids in the midfield?
Click to expand...

Rachele was a small forward/midfielder but at any rate he has not been given enough opportunities in the midfield. He has been classified as a forward.

Yes, Pedlar is a midfielder but played as a small forward.

Because we give all our time to Crouch and Laird, no different to 2020, it is like Groundhog Day in 2024.
 
Cap said:
Absolutely l, didnt the club tell us that Rankine and Rachelle are meant to also be playing midfield time ?

Pedlar is also a 1st rounder?

Don't get me wrong, we should have gone hard at actual bona fide midfielder.
Click to expand...

Sorry Pedlar is a midfielder but that isn’t what they have done so far - just more minutes as a forward.

So many mistakes and we are now on a stalled rebuild.
 
adelaidecrows said:
All is not lost in our rebuild, I believe it can be resurrected with some short term pain. Nicks shat the bed as he became intent on coaching for his job over building a list that can challenge for the Premiership.

I think the club has to draw a line in the sand and put a line through a group of players that wont be involved. Its a bloody tough list and some...ok just 1 player I feel bad for putting on it. But wrong age at the wrong club. A double wammy.

Players who should immediately be removed from the side or playing contention;
1. Taylor Walker - Times up, our goal was finals this year he is wasting a spot in the 22. Not a great way to end a career but he knew the risks
2. Rory Sloane - Hasn't played this year but we have reached a stage where any selection in the Sanfl or at AFL is wasting his and the clubs time.
3. Brodie Smith - He just isn't going to be part of the next premiership. Had we made finals this year he may have got another year. But done.
4. Chris Burgess - This one was a head scratcher, break glass in emergency type player. The list has burned to the ground and his playing time is wasting someones development spot.
5. Rory Laird - It was either Laird or Crouch and at a younger age, Crouch produces more bang for the buck in the middle.
6. Lachlan Murphy - Just not a best 25 player. Never has been. No point pretending anymore.
7. Lachlan Sholl - Same as Murphy, just not a best 25 player.
8. Harry Schoenberg - As above, reached a ceiling, doesn't do nearly enough for a player in his position.
9. Ned McHenry - Just another meh player that isn't even close to best 25 material.
10. Elliot Himmelberg, break glass in case of emergency tall, but done.
11. Patrick Parnell, like Sholl, Murphy and McHenry. Just not required.

7 of these players played today. 7! let that sink in to how bad our selection is going.

Players who are lucky to not be on that list
1. Sam Berry - its hard not to believe that if we were any other team other than WCE he may have been delisted. Such is his fall from grace.
2. Matthew Crouch - My pick was Crouch but a lot will pick Laird. But in my view only one can stay.
3. Ben Keays - Cooked and is a squad depth at best player. Only selected him in the team because of injuries.
4. Darcy Fogarty - Ive nicknamed him DND, 'Do nothing Darcy' He isn't a deep forward. He is a running player in a big body. I think put a strong fitness based Preseason and put him up on the flank and let him be that creative player.
5. Keirin Strachan - just lol. Waste of space, pure emergency.

My side moving forward from the Carlton Game
Injuries: Riley Thilthorpe, Nick Murray, Wayne Milera (season), Zak Taylor


FF: Luke Pedlar, Lachlan Gollant, Izak Rankine
HF: Josh Rachele, Darcy Fogarty, Brayden Cook
C: Luke Nankervis, Jordan Dawson, Josh Soligo
HB: Chayce Jones, Mark Keane, Max Michalanney
FB: Josh Worrell, Jordan Butts, Mitch Hinge
R: Reilly O'Brien, Matt Crouch, Billy Dowling

Int: Oscar Ryan, Sam Berry, Daniel Curtin, Charlie Edwards, Ben Keays

Other viable options: Hugh Bond, James Borlase, Karl Gallagher, Will Hamill

The club needs to demand games are put into these players. thats 19 games our young players could add to their tally and gain experience.

Midfield rotation
Rucks - O'Brien, Dawson, Crouch, Dowling, Rankine, Pedlar, Soligo, Rachele, Cook, Edwards, Berry
Notes: Crouch reduces his workload over time as match fitness increases with a goal to be strictly under 10% centre clearances and stoppages by the end of the year.

The club needs to sack Nicks regardless, I think it will come mid year.
Click to expand...
ROB need to be on that highlighted list.
 
The club just needs to follow through with the actual rebuild and stick to it. Last year we did quite well off the back of a lot of young guys getting in and having a red hot go. Then we come back into the 2024 season playing the same group that they agreed needed changing up - the midfield.
This is where the main issues are , slow and inaccurate, crouch, laird , Dawson all look like they have to go 110% to win the ball when other midfielders make it look so much easier and use the ball more effectively.
Pull the trigger on running soligo , pedlar and dowling in the centre , rotate with rachelle , rankine and Schoenberg once he's back .
They need to develop these guys now , it should have already been a priority but looking after the "boys club" is more important to those in charge.
 

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Strategy The season is lost, what should we do with the remaining 19 games?

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