Autopsy This is going to be painful. The Dogs V Bombers debacle thread.

[fred cook]

Bit of an elephant in the room I reckon. Malthouse was scathing of English on 774

Could Malthouse return to the Bulldogs as interim coach and we re build the Doug Hawkins coaching box for him

On CPH2305 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[H Dolphin]

Not a single question in the post match to Beveridge about the total ineffectiveness of English. Yet it was one of the more blatant stand outs of the match.

The weakness in the English game is his tap work and a number of opposition ruckman work to get between him and the ball at centre bounces, Goldstein did it all night. Perhaps the press have expectations as low as that of our supporters.

 

[Dogs Rule]

The weakness in the English game is his tap work and a number of opposition ruckman work to get between him and the ball at centre bounces, Goldstein did ita ll night. Perhaps the press have expectations as low as that of our supporters.

Also, he just lacks presence and makes basic errors. That sitter of a dropped mark will stick with me for a long time - I've never seen an effort like it.

 

[_Cerberus_]

The weakness in the English game is his tap work and a number of opposition ruckman work to get between him and the ball at centre bounces, Goldstein did it all night. Perhaps the press have expectations as low as that of our supporters.

What I have noticed, is that his Hit Outs, and Hit Outs To Advantage rate is good. Like some rucks need 30 hit outs to get 7 or 8 to advantage, English may only need 20 to get the same to advantage. The issue is, he isn't getting 35-40 hit outs a game like the best in the league are. Imagine how many hit outs to advantage he would get if he could actually get his hands on it more?

 

[olimauldon]

Thing is, if they were going to do it, they should have done it at the end of last year.

Still, getting rid of Bailey Smith was a higher priority and they didn't do that either. Coulda got chips and dip for him back then, now just chips.

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today

 

[Jen Geoffings]

Adam Cooney clowns around on his late night C7 show but he’s still an astute commentator.

His opinion isn’t that we’ve got too many fringe players - every team does - but that Bev has no idea what his best team is . We’ve got a revolving door of almost - nearly players in & out every week . Team selection lacks any consistency, and thus we’re unsettled .

Injuries will occur as the season goes on , and then I fear we’ll be in massive trouble .

Perversely injuries might bring about an enforced stability

 

[Next Waiting]

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today

I get that and would if I could but I don't think we're allowed to move him on till trade period.

 

[H Dolphin]

What I have noticed, is that his Hit Outs, and Hit Outs To Advantage rate is good. Like some rucks need 30 hit outs to get 7 or 8 to advantage, English may only need 20 to get the same to advantage. The issue is, he isn't getting 35-40 hit outs a game like the best in the league are. Imagine how many hit outs to advantage he would get if he could actually get his hands on it more?

16 hitouts, 4 to advantage. That puts English among the "some rucks. I'm surprised at those stats.

 

[_Cerberus_]

16 hitouts, 4 to advantage. That puts English among the "some rucks. I'm surprised at those stats.

Was just random numbers thrown in to make a point, not being exact. In the days where Grundy pants him. I was surprised to see the HOAdv stats were not to different. Just English got flogged in HO stats in general. Been a few games where he got smashed in general hit outs, but HOAdv were somewhat similar. Just trying to picture what it would look like if he actually got his hands on it 40 times in one game like Gawn does time to time. His ratio is quite efficient.

Need to get him to meet the Hulk. Learn to be angry and want to physically smash his opponent contest after contest. He is a big guy, just way too nice. But if it hasn't happened by now, I don't expect it to change. Been in the system long enough to no longer use the "developing" excuse. Question is, is the failure to get the best out of him technique wise in ruck contests, on the coaching staff or on English himself?

 

[gordo2016]

Does English still get support from Stef Martin at the club, who was a development coach last season? Haven't seen Stef on any footage at training so wondering whether he is still involved. Or is it just Lade who would speak to him about his ruck craft?

 

[Golden_6]

Does English still get support from Stef Martin at the club, who was a development coach last season? Haven't seen Stef on any footage at training so wondering whether he is still involved. Or is it just Lade who would speak to him about his ruck craft?

Martin moved on.

 

[doggiesin08]

I think it was for a late rough tackle by VDM after the whistle on the Essendon player who had the ball. Probably there. Seemed pointless to do it.

If he doesn’t then McGrath takes off and it’s advantage. McGrath definitely hadn’t stopped playing and caused most of the “sling” (VDM didn’t even have either arm pinned).

 

[doggiesin08]

Also, he just lacks presence and makes basic errors. That sitter of a dropped mark will stick with me for a long time - I've never seen an effort like it.

English was terrible on Friday, but the dropped mark was less of a sitter when you acknowledge the clear shove in the back he copped from Draper just as he was grabbing the ball.

 

[H Dolphin]

Was just random numbers thrown in to make a point, not being exact. In the days where Grundy pants him. I was surprised to see the HOAdv stats were not to different. Just English got flogged in HO stats in general. Been a few games where he got smashed in general hit outs, but HOAdv were somewhat similar. Just trying to picture what it would look like if he actually got his hands on it 40 times in one game like Gawn does time to time. His ratio is quite efficient.

Need to get him to meet the Hulk. Learn to be angry and want to physically smash his opponent contest after contest. He is a big guy, just way too nice. But if it hasn't happened by now, I don't expect it to change. Been in the system long enough to no longer use the "developing" excuse. Question is, is the failure to get the best out of him technique wise in ruck contests, on the coaching staff or on English himself?

Bev sees ruckwork differently. He won a premiership without a ruckman, just a full forward and a fullback who excelled around the ground but who's inadequacies at boundary throw ins and ball-ups around the ground had Smith and Bont going in over the top as 3rd men up. Bev had Minson in the wings but didn't use him. Perhaps that's still his mindset.

 

[H Dolphin]

Martin moved on.

He's an unusual bloke, Martin, no dill and a fair bit of Viking in his DNA, the last lot to belt up the Brits, just the sort of bloke we need at the club.

 

[Lex22]

Bev sees ruckwork differently. He won a premiership without a ruckman, just a full forward and a fullback who excelled around the ground but who's inadequacies at boundary throw ins and ball-ups around the ground had Smith and Bont going in over the top as 3rd men up. Bev had Minson in the wings but didn't use him. Perhaps that's still his mindset.

Bevo has never rated ruckman. He sees them a waste of space unless they can greatly influence other areas of the field and link up on the ground.

While I didn’t necessarily agree with it, I saw where Bevo was coming from with this when 3rd man up was a thing, i.e. a dominant opposition ruck will beat the lumbering bloke we play anyway, so we may as well get more out of the slot elsewhere. 3rd man up was effectively our defensive move in that setup, which helped even out the end result.

I don’t think you need a Gawn type, but that’s the quality of ruck we should be getting if paying the English ransom and he’s not good enough for the No. 1 slot (especially on big coin).

English was at his best in 2021 when we had Stef as No. 1 & he was there as relief, but floating around in dangerous areas in-between. Effectively as a rich man’s Lobb.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Bevo has never rated ruckman. He sees them a waste of space unless they can greatly influence other areas of the field and link up on the ground.

While I didn’t necessarily agree with it, I saw where Bevo was coming from with this when 3rd man up was a thing, i.e. a dominant opposition ruck will beat the lumbering bloke we play anyway, so we may as well get more out of the slot elsewhere. 3rd man up was effectively our defensive move in that setup, which helped even out the end result.

I don’t think you need a Gawn type, but that’s the quality of ruck we should be getting if paying the English ransom and he’s not good enough for the No. 1 slot (especially on big coin).

English was at his best in 2021 when we had Stef as No. 1 & he was there as relief, but floating around in dangerous areas in-between. Effectively as a rich man’s Lobb.

Best we ever looked was with that big body-make-space crash-and-bash of a broken Stef Martin.

Said it once, will say it again. We should of gone after Grundy as our number 1 ruck instead of Lobb, and kept English as that third-floating tall and relief. We would look so much better with Grundy / English combo. So sick of seeing his meek efforts in the middle, no wonder we are getting pantsed at stoppages.

 

[ScragCity]

I don't care about English's tap work but I'd love to see him make a tackle once in a while. Other rucks find ways to be physically assertive outside of the ruck contest. Not our Timid Tim.

 

[W W Biscuit]

I don't care about English's tap work but I'd love to see him make a tackle once in a while. Other rucks find ways to be physically assertive outside of the ruck contest. Not our Timid Tim.

He dances around contests like a gazelle. I remember Chris Grant's comment some years ago that Josh Hill should never play for the Bulldogs again after a particularly weak, uninterested effort. IMO, Tim's performance on Friday night came dangerously close to that territory.

 

[bresker]

Is making a push for selection. Was good in the SANFL today. 2 goals, 37 hitouts, 7 clearances, 8 tackles and 19 disposals

Just went to the Port Adelaide board to see how Sweet was going . Leads the SA ressies in hitouts, had 48 in one game.

 

[Some Idiot]

I laugh at Tim getting called timid everytime he has a poor performance. Do people just choose to ignore his good games where he takes pack marks and throws his weight around?

 

[Dog 36]

I laugh at Tim getting called timid everytime he has a poor performance. Do people just choose to ignore his good games where he takes pack marks and throws his weight around?

The rule is he is timid the exception is pack marks and throws his weight around.

I feel at times the ruck position has been imposed on him rather than he wanting it.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

I laugh at Tim getting called timid everytime he has a poor performance. Do people just choose to ignore his good games where he takes pack marks and throws his weight around?

Are we talking about the same Tim English here? Can you show me what games his played where his “thrown his weight around” because in the last 10 his been beaten by:
A first gamer from Geelong
The ghost of Todd Goldstein

And everybody inbetween. The only time I’ve ever rated English was in 2021 when he wasn’t our number 1 ruck…

 

[CarnTheScray]

I laugh at Tim getting called timid everytime he has a poor performance. Do people just choose to ignore his good games where he takes pack marks and throws his weight around?

That’s what makes him so frustrating, he’ll do something in excusable in the centre bounce then take a mark that puts a halt to an opposition run on, but it’s not very often he does that.

Which games vs a competent ruck has he thrown his weight around and not been bullied into complete submission?

 

[Struggle]

That’s what makes him so frustrating, he’ll do something in excusable in the centre bounce then take a mark that puts a halt to an opposition run on, but it’s not very often he does that.

Which games vs a competent ruck has he thrown his weight around and not been bullied into complete submission?

The strange part is that he's put in some great performances against Gawn. Then will somehow let Bailey Williams beat him in the contest