Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 4 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Bald]

How about you stop abusing those who express views on here that are different to yours? The club cheerleaders are just as tiresome as the doomsdayers on here. This is a forum where it's ok to express your opinion as long as you are respectful to others on here. Please be respectful and stop telling other posters to get their heads out of their backsides just because they won't be Polly-Anna. This subtle bullying pisses me off.

Where’s the abuse?

 

[Bro_Pro]

Apart from adding O'Brien to our defence, where is our list going to improve?

who knows. Just the normal off season when everyone at the club say that big tim had a massive preseason and about to have a brake out year

 

[BRWB]

Omg this thread is embarrassing as the selection threads.

The trade finishes Wednesday night the draft well after that.

Sweet has re signed. Martin will be his mentor and coach along with English. We are at least as strong as we were in reaching a Grand Final with another year of development in 2 rucks in a position where there are literally 5 dominant players in the entire league.

We have picked up another kpd for nothing.

We will be bringing in at a minimum a top 5 kpp/ruck after making a GF.

We also brought in a number 1 kpp/ big bodied mid this year after playing finals last year.

Yet despite this we are failing to land an average at best ruck 5 days out from the finish and we are some how doomed.

I get these are difficult times but for gods sake get your heads out of your backsides, we will have a team to compete for the foreseeable future no matter what happens between now and Wednesday night.

There is enough to worry about in life, at least enjoy following a strong club and team for the foreseeable future

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Reckon it's as simple as we aren't picking up a ruck Bev won't pick. That rules out 90% of rucks. Be interesting what happens with Sweet. Not sure why we retained him if Bev isn't going to pick him ahead of a spud like Young.

Personally I liked Sweets centre square work. I do wonder if Bev underrates centre square work. 666 for us in the GF was the devil's number.

And picking up OBrien, who is better than Young while getting 52 for Young is first class list management and exactly how the FA system can be used to maximise outcomes.

 

[perro_loco]

nothing wrong with criticising professional athletes, thats part of why we are all here and why they get paid well.

its not personal, and i dont have to be better or tougher than them or an AFL player myself to do it.

English, as someone else put it, is meek, has shown it many many times, and can be called out as such on these forums, as can others.

Sure he can be. However, I get the feeling that you may have overcooked your pasta, and that is a cardinal sin Caro amigo!

 

[perro_loco]

Wow so we’re not chasing another ruckman… this is shocking list management. We don’t play Sweet, Martin breaks down, Tim isn’t physical enough, we lost Young and we have actively said ruck isn’t our strong suit. What am I missing here? We’ve prob gone backwards if anything, Martin is another year older, Tim needs to play forward with Bruce out and we lost Young.

TOM BOYD IS BACK TRAINING WITH THE DOGS AND HE IS SMASHING IT!!! WELCOME BACK TOM, WE MISSED YOU!!!

 

[Zgope1]

Omg this thread is embarrassing as the selection threads.

The trade finishes Wednesday night the draft well after that.

Sweet has re signed. Martin will be his mentor and coach along with English. We are at least as strong as we were in reaching a Grand Final with another year of development in 2 rucks in a position where there are literally 5 dominant players in the entire league.

We have picked up another kpd for nothing.

We will be bringing in at a minimum a top 5 kpp/ruck after making a GF.

We also brought in a number 1 kpp/ big bodied mid this year after playing finals last year.

Yet despite this we are failing to land an average at best ruck 5 days out from the finish and we are some how doomed.

I get these are difficult times but for gods sake get your heads out of your backsides, we will have a team to compete for the foreseeable future no matter what happens between now and Wednesday night.

There is enough to worry about in life, at least enjoy following a strong club and team for the foreseeable future

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Correct. We have the best list we’ve ever had. Deep talls. Amazing smalls. But if our ruck division that lead us to dominant footy this year which will be better next year doesn’t have f***ing jon ceglar we’ve f***ed it.

zero perspective

our list will probably never ever be this good and the predictable response I’ll get it “well it could be better” ffs

after two years of having the best clearance team despite the ruck issues the coach admitting that stability helps isn’t enough for the ingrates in here that have mainly denied that we’ve been excellent despite it and his unique antics have been largely effective

 

[perro_loco]

You can always rely on the AFL media department to get their facts right. Irony intended. Check out the caption below the photo.
View attachment 1255900View attachment 1255900

IDIOT FAKEN!!!

 

[Fossie 32]

IDIOT FAKEN!!!

Hmmm seems like Gardy is winning that contest soooo.......

 

[rac]

We did not lose the GF because of the ruck. We lost in the coaching box. Dees game plan and coaching was superior by a significant margin. Their footy ops made us look second rate. We are not second rate but they were elite in all facets.

i would love to get a ruck and would now be happy with Cox but if we cannot devise a way to score easier against them we will be bridesmaids again.
Hopefully fresh blood in our assistants will help. Would love to engage Clarko as a consultant to devise a plan to bring down the Dees but know this will not happen.

Maybe Cox does not get a new contract and we pick Him up later. have no idea myself. O brien is an improvement but I am more interested in our coaching replacements. Please Bevo no more St Bedes premiership players. Bringing 2 on board over the years is enough. We need quality.

I agree regards the coaching box. We had them on the ropes, they changed what they were doing and we didnt. We just came to every bounce with the exact same plan expecting a different result when the tide changed. they also had us for fitness which is somewhat our own doing with the run in we had. but i also think darren burgess had a lot to do with that and i'll be very intersted to see how the crows go in 2022 for consistency improvement over 4 qtrs. bev didnt play martin for weeks when the media were calling for it because he knew he didnt have the motor yet and in the end still didnt. cant expect a good outcome from a 35yr old v young enthusiastic blood after the old bloke is cooked. bruce's acl killed us with the tall reshuffle.

but its obvious we need to be more competitive and consistent in the ruck (if we want to win a gf) too often we get a run of 1, 2, or even three goals kicked against us from zero ruck contest and then we get a surprise win and the mids are out of position b/c they aren't expecting it.

 

[perro_loco]

I'd get the freaking out if a first rate ruckman like Gawn, Nik Nat, Grundy or a genuine up and comer like Jackson were up for grabs and we were completely indifferent to that news. Or if there was anything to the talk of English looking to go Wester than he currently is.

I dont get the outrage at missing out on the likes of Ladhams or the very definition of a journeyman in Ceglar. Especially when you consider that Ceglar will be 31 next year and only played 3 more games than Martin did this year. Hardly a difference that warrants the relentless hand wringing seen in here of late. As for Ladhams, he's statistically no better than English is and many here have all but given up on him as a ruckan. I dont think that either is a massive upgrade on what we currently have and its a view that the the football department at our club clearly agrees with.

AGREE. Voice of reason

 

[Proffessor]

How about you stop abusing those who express views on here that are different to yours? The club cheerleaders are just as tiresome as the doomsdayers on here. This is a forum where it's ok to express your opinion as long as you are respectful to others on here. Please be respectful and stop telling other posters to get their heads out of their backsides just because they won't be Polly-Anna. This subtle bullying pisses me off.

Sure Mutt, this is a place where people should be able to post their opinions without copping too much flack.

However in Lachy's defence there has been a substantial number of posters who would seem to have been metaphorically wearing their arse cheeks like ear flaps, such has been the reaction to our GF loss and the common belief that it was all the fault of our ruck division. A belief I don't share by the way.

 

[glenashley]

Apart from adding O'Brien to our defence, where is our list going to improve?

I would expect half a dozen changes to our gf team minimum.

Richards, juh, West, croz, O'Brien, VDM, gardener from the seniors who didn't play.

Some junior growth. Sweet, Bendendo, maybe a game or 2 from Darcy.....

Weightman, Smith, Naughton etc to take another leap....

 

[lachy]

Where’s the abuse?

Mods opinion, so be it

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[TiAn_]

Bruce is out for the season so we will either need English to play forward or be relying on a currently skinny 20 year old or an inconsistent Josh Schache

19

Josh Schache

Age

27

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.5

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.2

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.8

4star

as our FF in a flag tilt, the bloke we preferred as first ruck in 2 finals left for Carlton, the bloke we preferred as ruck in the PF & GF missed 2/3 of the season because he’s old and has been injury prone for two years and the 23 year old ruck we thought wasn’t worth more than a 1 year contract until the last minute was determined by the coaches to be a less effective option as ruck than an intercepting defender.

These are all plain facts. Calling anyone who doesn’t think they make great reading a bunch of names is garbage.

Sure Ceglar isn’t an AA candidate but he ripped off a great run of form this year that would have been influential in our side while Martin was injured and he’d plug a big gap in our list that would strengthen our options in the ruck and up forward. He’d also mitigate the risk that we’d have to go with makeshift options should English and/or Martin go down with an injury. The upside of adding him to the list to replace Young or in place of say Hayes or Cavarra is relatively obvious.

Don’t think people deserve name calling if they see it that way or similarly. Maybe adding another ruck isn’t the difference between winning or losing a GF but that isn’t the only measure for improving our list just because we made one. We still need to get back there and having the ruck position settled or at least covered by enough depth that we don’t have to rejig our forward and ruck strategies every time a player gets injured would surely help with that task.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Just the normal off season when everyone at the club say that big tim had a massive preseason and about to have a brake out year

Which he actually was having before the concussion.

 

[The Inbetweener]

We do have a very talented list, but virtually every loss this season was due to being smashed in the middle which led to our key backs being exposed.

Sort out one of those things (get a ruck or better KPD) and it solves a massive problem. Do neither and the issues will remain.

O’Brien is a Wood replacement, not a KPD saviour

 

[Golden_6]

We do have a very talented list, but virtually every loss this season was due to being smashed in the middle which led to our key backs being exposed.

Sort out one of those things (get a ruck or better KPD) and it solves a massive problem. Do neither and the issues will remain.

O’Brien is a Wood replacement, not a KPD saviour

I really like the thought of a backline trio consisting of Keath, Gardner, O’Brien and the usual mediums and smalls we have. That’s a much more athletic and bigger defensive lineup than we put out. We have two genuine marking threats in Keath & O’Brien and I do think Gardner can take the next step and becoming a competent stopper.

 

[Munnez]

I would expect half a dozen changes to our gf team minimum.

Richards, juh, West, croz, O'Brien, VDM, gardener from the seniors who didn't play.

Some junior growth. Sweet, Bendendo, maybe a game or 2 from Darcy.....

Weightman, Smith, Naughton etc to take another leap....

We have plenty of upside without adding anything new. Naughts is 21 heaps of time for him to grow as a KPF. A good run with injuries would make a huge difference. Add in fit Treloar and Dunks for an extra 10 weeks.
Melbourne have an excellent 22 but there isn't a lot behind it due to how they have built their list. If they had an injury list even close to the league average, I would suggest they struggle to make finals.
And the kind of fitness they had last year isn't sustainable year on year. They took a considered gamble imo to take it right to the very edge and it all worked out for them. Can only say well played I will be curious to see if they can do it again without the stress loading catching up with them and the injuries that come with it soft tissue strains and the like

 

[TiAn_]

We did very well last year for a side that didn’t pose much threat of generating counter attacks from intercept marks in defence. If O’Brien can replace say Cordy and beef up that aspect of our defence it’ll definitely make us better.

 

[Munnez]

I really like the thought of a backline trio consisting of Keath, Gardner, O’Brien and the usual mediums and smalls we have. That’s a much more athletic and bigger defensive lineup than we put out. We have two genuine marking threats in Keath & O’Brien and I do think Gardner can take the next step and becoming a competent stopper.

Agree feel that Gards was showing some real signs of growth. Taking a contested mark in front of Dixon in the PF. I think we made a mistake in the GF not playing him to better combat Melbourne's aerial threat.
Hope Bevo settles on Keath, Gards and Obrien for our taller Defenders and let them build some chemistry.
Could see it being quite effective despite not having any big names in there

 

[The Inbetweener]

I really like the thought of a backline trio consisting of Keath, Gardner, O’Brien and the usual mediums and smalls we have. That’s a much more athletic and bigger defensive lineup than we put out. We have two genuine marking threats in Keath & O’Brien and I do think Gardner can take the next step and becoming a competent stopper.

Keath is obviously a gun (although is 30) and I personally think Schache has a future as that Lever type loose interceptor due to the way he reads the ball, but we need an upgrade of Gardner as that 2nd KPD.

VFL only for Cordy.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Keath, Gards and O'Brien is a very mobile key back line.

 

[Maverick Dog]

My preference is Keath 199cm, O’Brien 193cm and Khamis 190cm. All 3 are good in the air. Khamis and O’Brien can both play as an intercept or lockdown and both have good skills. Khamis and O’Brien play taller due to their aerial capability.

Dees have Lever 194cm, May 190cm and Petty 197cm.

Gards would be ahead of Cordy but is just too unreliable with decision making when he gets the ball and I feel he still panics. Khamis looks great in the VFL, he dominates and I would expect his tank should be AFL ready after another preseason.

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Still a fair bit to play out in this offseason.

If we can add a ruck and a state league KPD like Schlensog then it could be outstanding in any other year:

- top 3 pick - KPP
- young pick around 40-50 depending on what we get for Lipinski
- another young pick at 52 for Young
- Tim O’Brien to give us an intercept mark that Wood was not able to be this year
- older ruck - still a few in play and probably some state leagers- we need two in the AFL and two in the VFL
- big bodied KPD/McAsey/Lienert/Schlesog/VFL 19 year old who had a great game against Casey playing in Brown and Weiderman.

This maintains growth at the young end as well as fills moneyball holes for next year. May need to use a draft pick for final 2.


Out
- Young
- Lipinski
- Jong
- Hayes
- Cavarra
- ???

We are still a young team in playing in GF - our base and will likely see the following step ups

- Schache - took a very big step the year and is now on the trajectory we want - if he can keep at it will be great for us

- JUH - is jumping out of his skin already - got three goals a game in last few games and will put in muscle and game endurance and play most of next year. He is a star and may end up our best player

- Smith - showed in every game in finals except the Granny he is a star. Will play more mid this year as Bont plays more forward to cover for Bruce and this will be great for him

- Trelor will be AA if he stays on the field - he is proven we just want a bit of Melbourne’s injury magic potion and he will get the consistency we need

- We get a top 22 proven mid back in McLean - maybe he can add a defensive element we need there but in any event is a very good player

- Richards was coming along beautifully until he got injured in the Melbourne game - he adds a spark to our defence where he plays his best and a move of Daniel to the wing will bring his Precision kicking further upfield into attack.

- Crozier was one of our best and hopefully will address whatever was holding him back last year - again not sure how to fit him in but he is too good to be out.

- Gardner was developing well and has only still played a handful of games - he will add size and be better

- our kids will keep coming Weightman has already broken out and just bad luck to get that concussion, VDM also just needs consistency and brings speed and mongrel to our forward line (even though JJ really stepped up) García, MCNeil, West, Khamis (TOB not so good for him) Sweet and Bedendo and Butler showed good patches

On the potential downs:

- Wood will likely drop a bit more with age - won’t write him off and with injuries who knows Duryea, Williams, Wood, Crozier, Richards and Khamis are a pretty amazing group of mid defenders.

- Martin can’t go forever - important if we are backing English as our No1 but risky if we go in with him as No1

- Lipinski is a good player and provides cover for Dunkley and Macrae - we can cover especially with McLean.

- Libba is still in his prime and with West and García developing have long term cover but a big gap ATM - Libba is top 3 in the league in a really hard position - every team wants a first possession competitive beast but they are rare as rockin horse shit. Is there another one coming? Oliver doesn’t seem to have provided another and keep the blood line going.

And injuries could play a role again with Keath the most impactful - our depth is currently less without Young and Schache was a surprise but we are still one short top liner in defence - ie Melbourne have May, Lever, Petty, Tomlinson and could easily swing MacDonald back - we are a long way off that.

Obviously ruck is also a higher risk position - what happens if English gets injured? Martin may also be injured. So we are playing Sweet with no Bruce providing a handy chop out. I am happy he was resigned but he was being belted by VFL ruckman so I hope we address this.

 

[lachy]

My preference is Keath 199cm, O’Brien 193cm and Khamis 190cm. All 3 are good in the air. Khamis and O’Brien can both play as an intercept or lockdown and both have good skills. Khamis and O’Brien play taller due to their aerial capability.

Dees have Lever 194cm, May 190cm and Petty 197cm.

Gards would be ahead of Cordy but is just too unreliable with decision making when he gets the ball and I feel he still panics. Khamis looks great in the VFL, he dominates and I would expect his tank should be AFL ready after another preseason.

The fact that you were able to leave out Gards and Cordy shows by just bringing in O'Brien we only really need Khamis to develop and we will actually have depth in the are and can mix and match depending a bit on the opponent too

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