umpiring\umpires 96 SANFL prelim final

[footy75]

AFL umpires do a good job of what is not an easy job. Week in and week out they give us a free kick count that is roughly the same for both teams. Sure they make bad decisions here and there (human nature) but they even up for both teams giving us a fair and even contest which is all I ask for. Sometimes people are too quick to blame the umpires when they should be looking at the rules committee who are arguably doing more damage to the game than good. All in all AFL umpires do an excellent job.

I have only seen one football match in my life where you can say that the umpires had a direct effect on who won the game and it wasn’t in the AFL. IT WAS THE SANFL. I have family and friends in Adelaide and I go over there quite a bit. My two best mates are Port Adelaide magpie supporters as is my brother. My uncle is a Norwood supporter. I was in Adelaide for the finals in 1994 and 1996, 1997, 1998 and 1999. So I have seen Port Adelaide win a few flags. 1994 and 1999 being the most memorable. Anyway I also saw the 1996 prelim final and the Grand Final which was another Port victory but in my opinion was overshadowed by the prelim final which was not only close but controversial.

I say all this because I have seen A LOT of football in the last 30 years but never have I seen such bad umpiring…and while I was there I got caught up in it all being affiliated with people that support both of the teams involved.

For those that aren’t aware of SANFL football the game was between the two biggest rivals in Adelaide. Port V Norwood. It was a windy day and goals were at a premium…it was a very tight tussle and there was nothing in it all day. Every possession-handball/ kick was valuable as goals were at a premium. Free kicks were like gold. The umpiring was fine up until quarter time. After quarter time it all went strange…there was no consistency and every time the whistle blew it seemed to be a port free kick.

Everybody talks about the Scott Hodges free kick with 5 seconds to go to win port the game. That free kick was definately there (one they actually got right) and that is the best kick at goal to win a match I have ever seen. The wind was going from left to right and he had to kick about 45m aiming at the point post and let the strong wind do the rest…a moment I will never forget.

Everyone talks about that free kick at the end and forget about the rest of the game which was actually the problem. I remember reading the statistics the next day and I will never forget because I haven’t ever seen anything like it in a final (and my uncle still talks about it). Port were given 25 free kicks to Norwood’s 11 in a preliminary final where goals were at a premium and it was tight all day. But it wasn’t just the amount that was so crucial, IT WAS WHERE THEY WERE GIVEN. Norwood received 9 of their free kicks deep in defence and 2 in the middle. Port were given something like 9 or 10 frees in their forward 50 (a lot resulting in goals).

I’ll also never forget a port player who took a mark on the outer side, northern end. He played on had a shot and hit the post. The goal umpire signaled a point and waved his flag and then the field umpire blew his whistle and gave him another shot at goal…it was right in front of us and there was absolutely no reason for it. Resulting in another goal, which should never have been there.

Now I’m not sure these kind of statistics are common in SANFL football but this would never happen in an AFL final…and if it did someone would be held accountable (Especially in a final). If the umpiring had of been even close to fair that day Norwood would of won by 4 or 5 goals. I have never seen anything like it in a final. Those statistics might have been acceptable had port won by 100 points but Norwood were first to the ball all day and led by a slender margin all day. In these tight tussles in any competition, especially in a final you expect a free kick count close for both teams unless of course you’re a one eyed supporter who is getting all the charity. I’m a huge football fan and I want to see a fair and even contest. I just can’t imagine that happening in a Carlton v Collingwood final, well any vfl/afl final.

People have since told me things like the SANFL had just given Port the AFL license and REALLY wanted them in the grand final…..food for thought…

Others have told me that umpires have always been intimidated by the large loud port crowds and that day the umpires were using the port players race where the diehard port fans were…Others have said if it was the other way around the umpires would not have made it off the ground alive but apparently that would never/has never happened because the umpires wouldn’t have the balls.

Others have said that this is one of the reasons port are the most successful clubs in Australia. They have the biggest crowds with the loudest and most passionate supporters and this intimidation factor is all part of being successful.

The few Norwood supporters I have talked to since say ‘so what we got revenge the next year when we flogged port in the GF’…That is a weak comeback and is maybe the reason why your football club doesn’t win flags…
If that happened over here (it never would) to my club I would be demanding something be done. (But in the AFL you don’t have to worry about that). But I would be expecting my club to be asking questions.

Others have said that it was a one off and SANFL umpires are usually excellent. fromother games I have seen they have been, they let it go alot more.

Was it just a case of the umpires just having an incredibly bad day? But all 3 of them??

I am involved with umpiring in junior grades and often get caught up analyzing the umpiring rather than enjoying the game at all levels. Even though I wanted port to win because of my mates and I knew we would have a big weekend the next weekend, I wasn’t disappointed just a little shocked. I couldn’t help but watch the most blatant, inconsistent and unprofessional display from the umpires that day I have ever seen. My two mates were laughing by the end of it. I had never seen it before (even at amateur/schoolboy grades) and doubt it will ever happen again.

Who were the umpires that day?

Was any action taken against them?
Port played Norwood in the 1999 grand final and this was tight aswell but the umpires were excellent and consistent and the better team won thanks to one of the best spoils I have ever seen in the last few minutes…another big night at Alberton J J there have been a few!! But that was a great game and so was the umpiring.

People criticize AFL umpiring but I can tell you this: you will never see any final umpired so poorly in the AFL as I did that day in the SANFL…going by that game there is a big difference in umpiring standards in the two competitions. In the AFL finals umpires rise to the challenge. You can criticize AFL umpires all you want, but they do a terrific job.

So who were the umpires that day?

Was any action taken against them?

 

[andrewmac]

Can't remember who they were, but i agree that it was a pretty terrible display. Comments from those you know regarding Port getting a ride from the umps, it still happens in SANFL. As far as their intimidation goes, i think this is related to the fact they are actually stupid enough to do something, which is what would intimidate umpires.

Mostly the standard of umpiring in the SANFL is pretty good, they do let play go, and the SANFL game is probably a little more like real football than AFL is.... but there are 2 SANFL umpires that really just can't do it.... Colin Rowston and Richard Williams... i'm hoping they don't get the opportunity to spoil the SANFL GF this weekend

 

[Adrian Shelton]

Think Richard Williams was one of the umps that day too!!

 

[Macca19]

So who were the umpires that day?

Richard Williams, Michael Avon and Craig Doddridge

reading the statistics the next day and I will never forget because I haven’t ever seen anything like it in a final (and my uncle still talks about it). Port were given 25 free kicks to Norwood’s 11 in a preliminary final where goals were at a premium and it was tight all day.

The paper had the free kick count at 24-11. Ive gone through the game with a Norwood supporting friend who wouldnt shut up about it and the actual free kick count is 24-13 in Ports favour.

When was the last time you saw that match? Have you seen a replay of the match since that day?

But it wasn’t just the amount that was so crucial, IT WAS WHERE THEY WERE GIVEN. Norwood received 9 of their free kicks deep in defence and 2 in the middle. Port were given something like 9 or 10 frees in their forward 50 (a lot resulting in goals).

Generally not smart to just make up stats, as there is always going to be someone that knows the real deal.

Norwoods free kick break down that we wrote down was:
Forward - 2 (1.0 kicked)
Midfield - 6
Defence - 5

Port Adelaides was:
Forward - 6 (2.1 kicked)
Midfield - 8
Defence - 4
Out on the Full - 6

The large discrepancy in the free kick count was largely due to Norwood kicking the ball out on the full 6 times during the match. Port kicked it on the full zero times. Take those away and a 18-13 free kick count is hardly the end of the world now is it?

The only free Port recieved in the forward line in the last quarter was Hodges'.

The other goal Port got through a free kick was from an obvious throw 15 metres out in front by D'antochia.

I’ll also never forget a port player who took a mark on the outer side, northern end. He played on had a shot and hit the post. The goal umpire signaled a point and waved his flag and then the field umpire blew his whistle and gave him another shot at goal…it was right in front of us and there was absolutely no reason for it. Resulting in another goal, which should never have been there.

The reason for it was that the umpire called time off. As anyone that knows anything about the game of football would know, you cant play on once the umpire has called time off. Thats why the ball was called back. The umpire called time off pretty quickly though.

If the umpiring had of been even close to fair that day Norwood would of won by 4 or 5 goals.

Absolute garbage. Maybe if Norwood hadnt shut up shop 7 minutes into the last quarter then they may have won. Norwoods last inside50 of the match was at the 8th minute mark of hte last quarter. Maybe if they had have gone forward even once in the last 21 minutes of the match instead of kicking, handballing, running, walking, crawling and doing their best imitation of a rugby league try over the boundary line then they might have actually got up. They can also count themselves lucky that the 4 or 5 ridiculously obvious deliberates werent paid.

Norwood have noone to blame but themselves for that day. They ****ed their tactics up. They went too defensive miles too early and thats what cost themselves the match. Against a Port side in that era, it was nothing but suicide. But of course, its much easier blaming the umpires.

I have never seen anything like it in a final.

Ive never seen a team shut up shop so early against a champion team either.

Those statistics might have been acceptable had port won by 100 points but Norwood were first to the ball all day and led by a slender margin all day.

Garbage. The game was one of the toughest even games and the lead changed numerous times during the match.

In these tight tussles in any competition, especially in a final you expect a free kick count close for both teams unless of course you’re a one eyed supporter who is getting all the charity.

Free kick counts arent supposed to be even.

I’m a huge football fan and I want to see a fair and even contest. I just can’t imagine that happening in a Carlton v Collingwood final, well any vfl/afl final.

Now your simply taking the piss.

People have since told me things like the SANFL had just given Port the AFL license and REALLY wanted them in the grand final…..food for thought…

Port were given the licence in December 1994 so yes I can certainly see the SANFL foreseeing a Port v Norwood Prelim two years down the track and organising a one sided free kick count.

Others have told me that umpires have always been intimidated by the large loud port crowds and that day the umpires were using the port players race where the diehard port fans were

There was 18,000 there that day, probably a 50/50 spread so the crowd would have nothing to do with it.

…Others have said if it was the other way around the umpires would not have made it off the ground alive but apparently that would never/has never happened because the umpires wouldn’t have the balls.

"pfftt, umpires would never give Port a rough deal"...who do you get this stuff off? Bitter Norwood or Glenelg supporters? Given one of the umpires that day has stated on radio that he hates Port Adelaide and has also been responsible for 2-3 similar matches with the results going the other way...doesnt make much sense does it?

Others have said that this is one of the reasons port are the most successful clubs in Australia.

Yes, Ports success is solely down to cheating umpires.

They have the biggest crowds with the loudest and most passionate supporters and this intimidation factor is all part of being successful.

So does this mean that the only reason why Centrals have been so successful this decade is because they have the most supporters, and arguably the most vocal, rabid supporters?

If that happened over here (it never would) to my club I would be demanding something be done. (But in the AFL you don’t have to worry about that). But I would be expecting my club to be asking questions.

Maybe they were too concerned with their shithouse tactics that cost them the match instead of the umpiring?

Was it just a case of the umpires just having an incredibly bad day? But all 3 of them??

Ill ask again, when was the last time you saw that game? If you havent seen it since that day, then I can send you a DVD copy to make up your own mind as opposed to chinese whispers and ridiculous 'zomg Port got 15 free kicks in front of goal' bullshit.

I couldn’t help but watch the most blatant, inconsistent and unprofessional display from the umpires that day I have ever seen.

Maybe you need to watch the game again.

My opinion is that for the first three quarters the umpiring was pretty fair and even, they let the play go a lot and watching the game again, you can pick out 30-40 free kicks that could have been paid to both sides for holding the balls, in the backs, holding ons etc. In the last quarter, Port got quite a few free kicks, half of which were out on the fulls, and the others were because they wanted the ball - and the victory - more. As I said, Norwood shut up shop way too early and thats what cost them victory against a team full of players that never gave up and were well known for triumphing against all odds. Not some ridiculous notion that Port were gifted 7 or 8 goals from free kicks.

Was any action taken against them?

Two of them - Williams and Avon - umpired the Grand Final the next week. Why would action be taken against them? If you equate free kick count equality to doing a great job then you're miles off.

Port played Norwood in the 1999 grand final and this was tight aswell but the umpires were excellent and consistent.

We got quite a rough deal that day actually.

 

[footy75]

The paper had the free kick count at 24-11. Ive gone through the game with a Norwood supporting friend who wouldnt shut up about it and the actual free kick count is 24-13 in Ports favour.

When was the last time you saw that match? Have you seen a replay of the match since that day?

i saw a replay like 12 years ago



Generally not smart to just make up stats, as there is always going to be someone that knows the real deal.

i was very close. well i would love to see a copy of the stats if you have them

Norwoods free kick break down that we wrote down was:
Forward - 2 (1.0 kicked)
Midfield - 6
Defence - 5

Port Adelaides was:
Forward - 6 (2.1 kicked)
Midfield - 8
Defence - 4
Out on the Full - 6

The large discrepancy in the free kick count was largely due to Norwood kicking the ball out on the full 6 times during the match. Port kicked it on the full zero times. Take those away and a 18-13 free kick count is hardly the end of the world now is it?

still affected the outcome of the game

The only free Port recieved in the forward line in the last quarter was Hodges'.

are u sure...


The other goal Port got through a free kick was from an obvious throw 15 metres out in front by D'antochia.




The reason for it was that the umpire called time off. As anyone that knows anything about the game of football would know, you cant play on once the umpire has called time off. Thats why the ball was called back. The umpire called time off pretty quickly though.

it was a player called Borlace and as far as i can remeber he immediately played on kicked a point and the goal umpire signaled a point and wove his flag. he chose to play on and missed or hit the post if i remeber correctly. again if i remeber correctly the commentators couldt even work it out.
again garbage umpiring reulting in a goal.


Absolute garbage. Maybe if Norwood hadnt shut up shop 7 minutes into the last quarter then they may have won. Norwoods last inside50 of the match was at the 8th minute mark of hte last quarter. Maybe if they had have gone forward even once in the last 21 minutes of the match instead of kicking, handballing, running, walking, crawling and doing their best imitation of a rugby league try over the boundary line then they might have actually got up. They can also count themselves lucky that the 4 or 5 ridiculously obvious deliberates werent paid.

agreed norwood di go defensive very early..yes it was a mistake.
still doesnt excuse bad umpiring
was the deliberate rule differen then?


Norwood have noone to blame but themselves for that day. They ****ed their tactics up. They went too defensive miles too early and thats what cost themselves the match. Against a Port side in that era, it was nothing but suicide. But of course, its much easier blaming the umpires.

yes agreed. but has nothing to do with bad umpiring.

again another diversion which takes the heat off the incompetent umpiring. both the hodges free with 5 seconds to go and the fact that norwood went defensive so early takes the focus off the crap umpiring.


Ive never seen a team shut up shop so early against a champion team either.

true. and i understand port magpies were renound for never giving up.

Garbage. The game was one of the toughest even games and the lead changed numerous times during the match.

EXACTLY and that is another reason the free kick count and consistency should of been there




Free kick counts arent supposed to be even.

when the game is close and the lead changes hand yes they are and in a final. they should mirror the score and the tempo of the game. in a classic battle between two arch rivals in a close game i want the umpiring to be even and consistent.

ill say it again the umpiring was fine until quarter time. after that it was the worst i ahve seen. port get a number of holding the balls (i think 2nd quarter) and there is an OBVIOUS holding the ball straight after in front of norwoods goal and they dont pay it..WHY???




Now your simply taking the piss.





Port were given the licence in December 1994 so yes I can certainly see the SANFL foreseeing a Port v Norwood Prelim two years down the track and organising a one sided free kick count.

wellmaybe it was port were about to jopinthe AFL...im just telling u what i heard...



There was 18,000 there that day, probably a 50/50 spread so the crowd would have nothing to do with it.

all i know is port supporters seem to constantly abuse and boo umpires regardless of the treatment they are getting



"pfftt, umpires would never give Port a rough deal"...who do you get this stuff off? Bitter Norwood or Glenelg supporters? Given one of the umpires that day has stated on radio that he hates Port Adelaide and has also been responsible for 2-3 similar matches with the results going the other way...doesnt make much sense does it?

well yeah a few people that don't go for port told me that the umpires would of copped it big time had it been the other way around...and i don't diagree..i have seen port supporters and the way they have a go at the umpires.

geez u wouldnt know he hates port after that day...funny way to show ur hatred


Yes, Ports success is solely down to cheating umpires.

no one said that is the reason for their success. big loud, passionate crowds go along way to helping teams get across the line.

i am the first to recognise their success. i have seen alot of port grand finals. i don't support them but i recognise what a great club they are. all i said was the 96 prelim was the worst umpiring in a fianl i have seen and had the umpiring been even and consitent that day the other team would have won. and i stand by that. im talking about ONE game.


So does this mean that the only reason why Centrals have been so successful this decade is because they have the most supporters, and arguably the most vocal, rabid supporters?

not at all. again you are missing the point. you need to take your one eyed port supporter hat off.
im talking about one match.


Maybe they were too concerned with their shithouse tactics that cost them the match instead of the umpiring?

yes bad tactics. still bad umpiring cost them aswell.
i couldn't give a shit anyway.
however it reamins the worst umpired match i have seen...and if i was a supporter i would of been spuing


Ill ask again, when was the last time you saw that game? If you havent seen it since that day, then I can send you a DVD copy to make up your own mind as opposed to chinese whispers and ridiculous 'zomg Port got 15 free kicks in front of goal' bullshit.

like i said along time ago. i would like to sit down and watch it and then i can point out to you (if u pronmise to take the one eyed port hat off) if it had of been even norwood would of won. give norwood the same amount of frees in front of goal and out of the centre. u have to understand how tight the game was and how any free kick was crucial that day.

IMAGINE THE SCORE IF IT WAS JUST EVEN OR IF NORWOOD GOT MORE FREES...wow... even my port mate conceeds yep we got a great run that day...but he's not your typical port supporter

Maybe you need to watch the game again.

ur right i probably do...and maybe i should. but i maintain the umpiring was absolute crap AFTER quarter time. had of been my side i would not of been happy.

My opinion is that for the first three quarters the umpiring was pretty fair and even, they let the play go a lot and watching the game again, you can pick out 30-40 free kicks that could have been paid to both sides for holding the balls, in the backs, holding ons etc. In the last quarter, Port got quite a few free kicks, half of which were out on the fulls, and the others were because they wanted the ball - and the victory - more. As I said, Norwood shut up shop way too early and thats what cost them victory against a team full of players that never gave up and were well known for triumphing against all odds. Not some ridiculous notion that Port were gifted 7 or 8 goals from free kicks.

yep but the ones that were paid were paid to port and not the other team. if u watched from a non port point of view like i did u will see that there were two teams out there that day and the umpiring advataged one of them and not the other. and watch where they are give. AGAIN AFTER QUARTER TIME


Two of them - Williams and Avon - umpired the Grand Final the next week. Why would action be taken against them? If you equate free kick count equality to doing a great job then you're miles off.

i want equality but mostly CONSISTENCY and i want the free kick count to mirror the scoreboard and the results and the fact that it is a prelim final, incredibly important for both sides.

had of been the AFL they wouldnt of got the grand final...then again that sort of garbage umpiring wouldnt happen in a prelim final in the afl..too much at stake


We got quite a rough deal that day actually.

thats laughable...a rough deal in 99??? are u serious???
how did port get their first goal that day?? a free that wasn't even there
please show me the stats/and u will find that it was nothing like 96..reflecting the game and the score. the umpiring was excellent that day
some people have said that the spoil in the last few minutes should of been to high...had of been hodges the port supporters would of gone beserk... i thought it was a great decision to be play on...

im starting to get the feeling port supporters think a rough deal for them is when they don't get double the frees.. you will find it was evenly matched that day and the better side (port) won.

thank god the umpiring that day was nothing like the 96 prelim.

 

[footy75]

The paper had the free kick count at 24-11. Ive gone through the game with a Norwood supporting friend who wouldnt shut up about it and the actual free kick count is 24-13 in Ports favour.

When was the last time you saw that match? Have you seen a replay of the match since that day?

i saw a replay like 12 years ago



Generally not smart to just make up stats, as there is always going to be someone that knows the real deal.

i would love to see a copy of the stats. send them to me. the ones from the paper

Norwoods free kick break down that we wrote down was:
Forward - 2 (1.0 kicked)
Midfield - 6
Defence - 5

Port Adelaides was:
Forward - 6 (2.1 kicked)
Midfield - 8
Defence - 4
Out on the Full - 6

The large discrepancy in the free kick count was largely due to Norwood kicking the ball out on the full 6 times during the match. Port kicked it on the full zero times. Take those away and a 18-13 free kick count is hardly the end of the world now is it?

still affected the outcome of the game

The only free Port recieved in the forward line in the last quarter was Hodges'.

very timely

The other goal Port got through a free kick was from an obvious throw 15 metres out in front by D'antochia.

The reason for it was that the umpire called time off. As anyone that knows anything about the game of football would know, you cant play on once the umpire has called time off. Thats why the ball was called back. The umpire called time off pretty quickly though.

it was a player called Borlace and as far as i can remeber he immediately played on kicked a point and the goal umpire signaled a point and wove his flag. he chose to play on and missed or hit the post if i remeber correctly. again if i remeber correctly the commentators couldt even work it out.
again garbage umpiring reulting in a goal.


Absolute garbage. Maybe if Norwood hadnt shut up shop 7 minutes into the last quarter then they may have won. Norwoods last inside50 of the match was at the 8th minute mark of hte last quarter. Maybe if they had have gone forward even once in the last 21 minutes of the match instead of kicking, handballing, running, walking, crawling and doing their best imitation of a rugby league try over the boundary line then they might have actually got up. They can also count themselves lucky that the 4 or 5 ridiculously obvious deliberates werent paid.

agreed norwood di go defensive very early..yes it was a mistake.
still doesnt excuse bad umpiring
was the deliberate rule differen then?


Norwood have noone to blame but themselves for that day. They ****ed their tactics up. They went too defensive miles too early and thats what cost themselves the match. Against a Port side in that era, it was nothing but suicide. But of course, its much easier blaming the umpires.

yes agreed. but has nothing to do with bad umpiring.

again another diversion which takes the heat off the incompetent umpiring. both the hodges free with 5 seconds to go and the fact that norwood went defensive so early takes the focus off the crap umpiring.


Ive never seen a team shut up shop so early against a champion team either.

true. and i understand port magpies were renound for never giving up.

Garbage. The game was one of the toughest even games and the lead changed numerous times during the match.

EXACTLY and that is another reason the free kick count and consistency should of been there




Free kick counts arent supposed to be even.

when the game is close and the lead changes hand yes they are and in a final. they should mirror the score and the tempo of the game. in a classic battle between two arch rivals in a close game i want the umpiring to be even and consistent.

ill say it again the umpiring was fine until quarter time. after that it was the worst i ahve seen. port get a number of holding the balls (i think 2nd quarter) and there is an OBVIOUS holding the ball straight after in front of norwoods goal and they dont pay it..WHY???




Now your simply taking the piss.





Port were given the licence in December 1994 so yes I can certainly see the SANFL foreseeing a Port v Norwood Prelim two years down the track and organising a one sided free kick count.

wellmaybe it was port were about to jopinthe AFL...im just telling u what i heard...



There was 18,000 there that day, probably a 50/50 spread so the crowd would have nothing to do with it.

all i know is port supporters seem to constantly abuse and boo umpires regardless of the treatment they are getting



"pfftt, umpires would never give Port a rough deal"...who do you get this stuff off? Bitter Norwood or Glenelg supporters? Given one of the umpires that day has stated on radio that he hates Port Adelaide and has also been responsible for 2-3 similar matches with the results going the other way...doesnt make much sense does it?

well yeah a few people that don't go for port told me that the umpires would of copped it big time had it been the other way around...and i don't diagree..i have seen port supporters and the way they have a go at the umpires.

geez u wouldnt know he hates port after that day...funny way to show ur hatred


Yes, Ports success is solely down to cheating umpires.

no one said that is the reason for their success. big loud, passionate crowds go along way to helping teams get across the line.

i am the first to recognise their success. i have seen alot of port grand finals. i don't support them but i recognise what a great club they are. all i said was the 96 prelim was the worst umpiring in a fianl i have seen and had the umpiring been even and consitent that day the other team would have won. and i stand by that. im talking about ONE game.


So does this mean that the only reason why Centrals have been so successful this decade is because they have the most supporters, and arguably the most vocal, rabid supporters?

not at all. again you are missing the point. you need to take your one eyed port supporter hat off.
im talking about one match.


Maybe they were too concerned with their shithouse tactics that cost them the match instead of the umpiring?

yes bad tactics. still bad umpiring cost them aswell.
i couldn't give a shit anyway.
however it reamins the worst umpired match i have seen...and if i was a supporter i would of been spuing


Ill ask again, when was the last time you saw that game? If you havent seen it since that day, then I can send you a DVD copy to make up your own mind as opposed to chinese whispers and ridiculous 'zomg Port got 15 free kicks in front of goal' bullshit.

like i said along time ago. i would like to sit down and watch it and then i can point out to you (if u pronmise to take the one eyed port hat off) if it had of been even norwood would of won. give norwood the same amount of frees in front of goal and out of the centre. u have to understand how tight the game was and how any free kick was crucial that day.

IMAGINE THE SCORE IF IT WAS JUST EVEN OR IF NORWOOD GOT MORE FREES...wow... even my port mate conceeds yep we got a great run that day...but he's not your typical port supporter

Maybe you need to watch the game again.

ur right i probably do...and maybe i should. but i maintain the umpiring was absolute crap AFTER quarter time. had of been my side i would not of been happy.

My opinion is that for the first three quarters the umpiring was pretty fair and even, they let the play go a lot and watching the game again, you can pick out 30-40 free kicks that could have been paid to both sides for holding the balls, in the backs, holding ons etc. In the last quarter, Port got quite a few free kicks, half of which were out on the fulls, and the others were because they wanted the ball - and the victory - more. As I said, Norwood shut up shop way too early and thats what cost them victory against a team full of players that never gave up and were well known for triumphing against all odds. Not some ridiculous notion that Port were gifted 7 or 8 goals from free kicks.

yep but the ones that were paid were paid to port and not the other team. if u watched from a non port point of view like i did u will see that there were two teams out there that day and the umpiring advataged one of them and not the other. and watch where they are give. AGAIN AFTER QUARTER TIME


Two of them - Williams and Avon - umpired the Grand Final the next week. Why would action be taken against them? If you equate free kick count equality to doing a great job then you're miles off.

i want equality but mostly CONSISTENCY and i want the free kick count to mirror the scoreboard and the results and the fact that it is a prelim final, incredibly important for both sides.

had of been the AFL they wouldnt of got the grand final...then again that sort of garbage umpiring wouldnt happen in a prelim final in the afl..too much at stake


We got quite a rough deal that day actually.

 

[Angus Young]

AFL umpires do a good job of what is not an easy job. Week in and week out they give us a free kick count that is roughly the same for both teams. Sure they make bad decisions here and there (human nature) but they even up for both teams giving us a fair and even contest which is all I ask for. Sometimes people are too quick to blame the umpires when they should be looking at the rules committee who are arguably doing more damage to the game than good. All in all AFL umpires do an excellent job.

I have only seen one football match in my life where you can say that the umpires had a direct effect on who won the game and it wasn’t in the AFL. IT WAS THE SANFL. I have family and friends in Adelaide and I go over there quite a bit. My two best mates are Port Adelaide magpie supporters as is my brother. My uncle is a Norwood supporter. I was in Adelaide for the finals in 1994 and 1996, 1997, 1998 and 1999. So I have seen Port Adelaide win a few flags. 1994 and 1999 being the most memorable. Anyway I also saw the 1996 prelim final and the Grand Final which was another Port victory but in my opinion was overshadowed by the prelim final which was not only close but controversial.

I say all this because I have seen A LOT of football in the last 30 years but never have I seen such bad umpiring…and while I was there I got caught up in it all being affiliated with people that support both of the teams involved.

For those that aren’t aware of SANFL football the game was between the two biggest rivals in Adelaide. Port V Norwood. It was a windy day and goals were at a premium…it was a very tight tussle and there was nothing in it all day. Every possession-handball/ kick was valuable as goals were at a premium. Free kicks were like gold. The umpiring was fine up until quarter time. After quarter time it all went strange…there was no consistency and every time the whistle blew it seemed to be a port free kick.

Everybody talks about the Scott Hodges free kick with 5 seconds to go to win port the game. That free kick was definately there (one they actually got right) and that is the best kick at goal to win a match I have ever seen. The wind was going from left to right and he had to kick about 45m aiming at the point post and let the strong wind do the rest…a moment I will never forget.

Everyone talks about that free kick at the end and forget about the rest of the game which was actually the problem. I remember reading the statistics the next day and I will never forget because I haven’t ever seen anything like it in a final (and my uncle still talks about it). Port were given 25 free kicks to Norwood’s 11 in a preliminary final where goals were at a premium and it was tight all day. But it wasn’t just the amount that was so crucial, IT WAS WHERE THEY WERE GIVEN. Norwood received 9 of their free kicks deep in defence and 2 in the middle. Port were given something like 9 or 10 frees in their forward 50 (a lot resulting in goals).

I’ll also never forget a port player who took a mark on the outer side, northern end. He played on had a shot and hit the post. The goal umpire signaled a point and waved his flag and then the field umpire blew his whistle and gave him another shot at goal…it was right in front of us and there was absolutely no reason for it. Resulting in another goal, which should never have been there.

Now I’m not sure these kind of statistics are common in SANFL football but this would never happen in an AFL final…and if it did someone would be held accountable (Especially in a final). If the umpiring had of been even close to fair that day Norwood would of won by 4 or 5 goals. I have never seen anything like it in a final. Those statistics might have been acceptable had port won by 100 points but Norwood were first to the ball all day and led by a slender margin all day. In these tight tussles in any competition, especially in a final you expect a free kick count close for both teams unless of course you’re a one eyed supporter who is getting all the charity. I’m a huge football fan and I want to see a fair and even contest. I just can’t imagine that happening in a Carlton v Collingwood final, well any vfl/afl final.

People have since told me things like the SANFL had just given Port the AFL license and REALLY wanted them in the grand final…..food for thought…

Others have told me that umpires have always been intimidated by the large loud port crowds and that day the umpires were using the port players race where the diehard port fans were…Others have said if it was the other way around the umpires would not have made it off the ground alive but apparently that would never/has never happened because the umpires wouldn’t have the balls.

Others have said that this is one of the reasons port are the most successful clubs in Australia. They have the biggest crowds with the loudest and most passionate supporters and this intimidation factor is all part of being successful.

The few Norwood supporters I have talked to since say ‘so what we got revenge the next year when we flogged port in the GF’…That is a weak comeback and is maybe the reason why your football club doesn’t win flags…
If that happened over here (it never would) to my club I would be demanding something be done. (But in the AFL you don’t have to worry about that). But I would be expecting my club to be asking questions.

Others have said that it was a one off and SANFL umpires are usually excellent. fromother games I have seen they have been, they let it go alot more.

Was it just a case of the umpires just having an incredibly bad day? But all 3 of them??

I am involved with umpiring in junior grades and often get caught up analyzing the umpiring rather than enjoying the game at all levels. Even though I wanted port to win because of my mates and I knew we would have a big weekend the next weekend, I wasn’t disappointed just a little shocked. I couldn’t help but watch the most blatant, inconsistent and unprofessional display from the umpires that day I have ever seen. My two mates were laughing by the end of it. I had never seen it before (even at amateur/schoolboy grades) and doubt it will ever happen again.

Who were the umpires that day?

Was any action taken against them?
Port played Norwood in the 1999 grand final and this was tight aswell but the umpires were excellent and consistent and the better team won thanks to one of the best spoils I have ever seen in the last few minutes…another big night at Alberton J J there have been a few!! But that was a great game and so was the umpiring.

People criticize AFL umpiring but I can tell you this: you will never see any final umpired so poorly in the AFL as I did that day in the SANFL…going by that game there is a big difference in umpiring standards in the two competitions. In the AFL finals umpires rise to the challenge. You can criticize AFL umpires all you want, but they do a terrific job.

So who were the umpires that day?

Was any action taken against them?

yes the umpiring was a joke that day (B grade) especially for a final...
Norwood got the rough end of the stick but all we hear about is Hodge's kick...

 

[Macca19]

i saw a replay like 12 years ago

Well maybe you need to watch it again.

i would love to see a copy of the stats. send them to me. the ones from the paper

I dont have a copy of the stats from the paper. You can always go to the library and source them.

very timely

It seems all you want to do is have a whinge about Port supporters and how they got a 'free ride' that day. You cant say 'i agree the free kick was there, it definately was' etc. but then have a crack saying oh..very timely. So whats your opinion....it was either there or it wasnt?

it was a player called Borlace and as far as i can remeber he immediately played on kicked a point and the goal umpire signaled a point and wove his flag. he chose to play on and missed or hit the post if i remeber correctly. again if i remeber correctly the commentators couldt even work it out.
again garbage umpiring reulting in a goal.

Of course, because the commentating is the be all and end all of what happens? The commentators also thought Port should have had 3-4 extra free kicks in that last quarter including a free to Hodges 15 out dead in front and a number of deliberates in Ports forward 50. Maybe Port got the rough deal!

As I said, the umpire called time off. Quickly. Probably too quick. He did this, it seems, because the Norwood opponent was hanging onto Borlase's jumper. This is why it was called back. Its a pretty stock standard decision. You can see the umpire with his arm up both in real time and in the replays. Just because the commentators didnt pick up on it doesnt mean shit. You being this supposed umpire analysist should realise how simple that rule is. The only query about that decision is how quickly the umpire called time off (which he called as soon as the mark was taken).

agreed norwood di go defensive very early..yes it was a mistake.
still doesnt excuse bad umpiring
was the deliberate rule differen then?

I dont know about you but simply crawling over the line with the ball under zero pressure, doing rugby tries with the ball over the boundary line is deliberate every day of the week whether it be in 1990, 1996 or 2008.

yes agreed. but has nothing to do with bad umpiring.

Correct, but it shows there are other reasons for the loss other than the umpiring. Norwood kicked 3.1 in the first 9 minutes of the quarter. They led by 17 points, had all the play and should have gone on with the victory. From that moment on they did not go into their forward line once. Not once. They played the boundary and tried to shut the game down. This has much more to do with the game than the umpiring in the middle two quarters. All they wanted to do was bang it on the boot over the boundary line.

again another diversion which takes the heat off the incompetent umpiring. both the hodges free with 5 seconds to go and the fact that norwood went defensive so early takes the focus off the crap umpiring.

Or maybe the 'crap umpiring' takes the heat of the Norwood coaches and players for thinking they had a game won 9 minutes into the last quarter against a side that had won the previous two premierships. Much easier to blame the umpiring than to look yourselves in the eye and know you ****ed it up.

EXACTLY and that is another reason the free kick count and consistency should of been there

Again, you are judging this on your view of the game 12 years ago. I watched the game yesterday. You watch the game again, go through it decision by decision, then come to the conclusion.

when the game is close and the lead changes hand yes they are and in a final. they should mirror the score and the tempo of the game. in a classic battle between two arch rivals in a close game i want the umpiring to be even and consistent.

Crap. If frees are there, they are there, regardless of the scoreline. Is this the way you umpire junior footy?

ill say it again the umpiring was fine until quarter time. after that it was the worst i ahve seen. port get a number of holding the balls (i think 2nd quarter) and there is an OBVIOUS holding the ball straight after in front of norwoods goal and they dont pay it..WHY???

The free kick count was 5-2 in Ports favour in the 2nd quarter...that included 2 out on the fulls, so essentially 3-2. Again, not a huge difference is it?

The three frees Port got due to the umpire, one was for in the back on the wing, one was for too high in a ruck contest in Ports forward line and the other was for too high on the wing. No holding the balls in the 2nd quarter.

On watching the game, Id say Port were given more soft frees in the first quarter as opposed to any other time.

wellmaybe it was port were about to jopinthe AFL...im just telling u what i heard...

Do you believe every conspiracy theory you hear?

all i know is port supporters seem to constantly abuse and boo umpires regardless of the treatment they are getting

Of course, Port supporters are the only group in the league to do that

All your original post is was having a crack at Port Adelaide in the form of a semi serious post.

well yeah a few people that don't go for port told me that the umpires would of copped it big time had it been the other way around...and i don't diagree..i have seen port supporters and the way they have a go at the umpires.

And Ive seen Carlton, Collingwood, Adelaide, Norwood, Sturt, South, every other team in Australias supporters have a go at umpires. And what exactly does the crowd giving it to umpires if it was the other way around have to do with anything at all?

i am the first to recognise their success. i have seen alot of port grand finals. i don't support them but i recognise what a great club they are. all i said was the 96 prelim was the worst umpiring in a fianl i have seen and had the umpiring been even and consitent that day the other team would have won. and i stand by that. im talking about ONE game.
[/B]

I disagree, and as ive said, in my opinion, Norwoods terrible tactics had more to do with the end result as opposed to the umpiring. They play football for the last 20 minutes, they win. Simple.

not at all. again you are missing the point. you need to take your one eyed port supporter hat off.
im talking about one match.

You need to watch the match again.

like i said along time ago. i would like to sit down and watch it and then i can point out to you (if u pronmise to take the one eyed port hat off) if it had of been even norwood would of won. give norwood the same amount of frees in front of goal and out of the centre. u have to understand how tight the game was and how any free kick was crucial that day.

I understand the situation of the game. Ive watched the match 50 times. You havent seen it in 12 years. Id love to sit down and watch it as long as you dont bring up 3rd hand opinions from your norwood buddies.

IMAGINE THE SCORE IF IT WAS JUST EVEN OR IF NORWOOD GOT MORE FREES...wow... even my port mate conceeds yep we got a great run that day...but he's not your typical port supporter

We did get a good run with the umps but it doesnt mean its the only reason for the result. Getting more frees also doesnt mean its a great run. If the frees are there, they are there. Theres probably one or two dubious frees Port got for the day.

yep but the ones that were paid were paid to port and not the other team.

Again, thats subjective.

i want equality but mostly CONSISTENCY and i want the free kick count to mirror the scoreboard and the results and the fact that it is a prelim final, incredibly important for both sides.

How often does the free kick count mirror the scoreboard? Very very rarely. In any case, pretty much every supporter base every week thinks they get a raw deal...no matter what the free kick count is.

had of been the AFL they wouldnt of got the grand final...then again that sort of garbage umpiring wouldnt happen in a prelim final in the afl..too much at stake

Thats your opinion. Ask Crows supporters how they feel about the umpiring in the 93 Prelim.

 

[Angus Young]

the three muppets that umpired that day (if u can call it that) should be shot.

 

[footy75]

Well maybe you need to watch it again.

i probably should. but watching the better team on the day that kicked all their goals on their own lose might make me nauseas


I dont have a copy of the stats from the paper. You can always go to the library and source them.

well i would like to see them, maybe i will one day
out of norwoods 11 free kicks i would bet half were in the first quarter when the umpires actually acknowledged the fact that there were 2 sides out there that day.
AND i be the ones they got after half time were deep in defence.
AND i would like to know which Norwood player actually got a free kick in front of goal that u claim...again if true must be int he first quarter.

It seems all you want to do is have a whinge about Port supporters and how they got a 'free ride' that day. You cant say 'i agree the free kick was there, it definately was' etc. but then have a crack saying oh..very timely. So whats your opinion....it was either there or it wasnt?

my opinion is that it was defiantely there no doubt but that umpire would of had the whistle in the mouth just waiting to blow it.
like a friend of mine said when you used to play port adelaide and the scores were close and it was in their forward line it was like treading through land mines not to give a free away.

Another question-have u ever see a team get a free kick AGAINST port adelaide in their forward line near the end of match when there is a goal in it. EVER?? i would say NEVER in a final let alone a normal match.

i wonder if it was hodges when the port palyer spoilt the norwood forward in the 99 grand final if it would of been to high or to late or over the shoulder...mmmm


Of course, because the commentating is the be all and end all of what happens? The commentators also thought Port should have had 3-4 extra free kicks in that last quarter including a free to Hodges 15 out dead in front and a number of deliberates in Ports forward 50. Maybe Port got the rough deal!

port a rough deal lol. they dont know what a rough deal is.
well they do now when the power play in melbourne they usually get a rough deal. at gaymi stadium however its a differnet story.

As I said, the umpire called time off. Quickly. Probably too quick. He did this, it seems, because the Norwood opponent was hanging onto Borlase's jumper. This is why it was called back. Its a pretty stock standard decision. You can see the umpire with his arm up both in real time and in the replays. Just because the commentators didnt pick up on it doesnt mean shit. You being this supposed umpire analysist should realise how simple that rule is. The only query about that decision is how quickly the umpire called time off (which he called as soon as the mark was taken).

doesn't happen to often...when a player plays on immeduaitely in
front of goal that is that. crap umpiring another goal that shouldnt happened. he chose to play on and have a shot, end of story.


I dont know about you but simply crawling over the line with the ball under zero pressure, doing rugby tries with the ball over the boundary line is deliberate every day of the week whether it be in 1990, 1996 or 2008.

the rules are diffferent from afl i think

Correct, but it shows there are other reasons for the loss other than the umpiring. Norwood kicked 3.1 in the first 9 minutes of the quarter. They led by 17 points, had all the play and should have gone on with the victory. From that moment on they did not go into their forward line once. Not once. They played the boundary and tried to shut the game down. This has much more to do with the game than the umpiring in the middle two quarters. All they wanted to do was bang it on the boot over the boundary line.

yes they had all the play were first to the ball and still couldn't buy a free kick

Or maybe the 'crap umpiring' takes the heat of the Norwood coaches and players for thinking they had a game won 9 minutes into the last quarter against a side that had won the previous two premierships. Much easier to blame the umpiring than to look yourselves in the eye and know you ****ed it up.

again you are correct.

Again, you are judging this on your view of the game 12 years ago. I watched the game yesterday. You watch the game again, go through it decision by decision, then come to the conclusion.

you are right perhaps i should and maybe my judgement is a little flawed, im just going on what i remember. i was having a discussion with friends and we were talking about games where umpires ****ed up the result. this game sprang straight to mind. perhaps i should watch it again.


Crap. If frees are there, they are there, regardless of the scoreline. Is this the way you umpire junior footy?

no..but we are not talking about junior footy. we are talking about a preliminary final in the supposedly 2nd best competition in australia with two arch rivals when a game is so tight...i dont want to see it flipping ruined by 3 dopey ***** that can't recognise their are two teams on the field have a red hot crack. dont ruin it...be consistent. i dont want flipping free kicks to influence the outcome. and they clearly did regardless of weather norwood shut up shop early or not.

The free kick count was 5-2 in Ports favour in the 2nd quarter...that included 2 out on the fulls, so essentially 3-2. Again, not a huge difference is it?

i need to watch it again. i remeber port getting holding the balls ad exactly the same thing would happen to norwood and it would be play on, that doesnt make a stat. and u will say yeah but a few happened to port aswell. more happened to norwood. and its WHERE it happened.

The three frees Port got due to the umpire, one was for in the back on the wing, one was for too high in a ruck contest in Ports forward line and the other was for too high on the wing. No holding the balls in the 2nd quarter.

cant remeber exact details but if u watch there is a holding the ball that norwood should of got in their forward 50...completely obvious-play on. down the other end the umpires would not have hesitated that day.

On watching the game, Id say Port were given more soft frees in the first quarter as opposed to any other time.

well i thought the umpiring was equal and fair for both teams in the first quarter. that's all i want mate especailly in a final. after that it goes pear shaped.


Do you believe every conspiracy theory you hear?

wouldn't have a clue.
but i do believe the SANFL would of wanted port in the GF??...yes. for crowd attendances and because they were chosen for the AFL license by the SANFL and they were about to join the AFL. the SANFL wouldn't of wanted to look stupid.
as for the theory i dont know...
i also heard the umpires door was kicked in by someone after the match. not sure if that's true.
also heard the norwood football club drafted a letter of complaint about the umpiring that day but at the last minute were recommended not to lodge it.

should of been done


Of course, Port supporters are the only group in the league to do that

all supporters do it but its full on with port supporters

All your original post is was having a crack at Port Adelaide in the form of a semi serious post.

ok. i dont hate port like alot of people i know that are non port supporters but i can see why people hate them. like i said i have had some good times at alberton and attented some super port adelaide matches like 1994 GF and 1999.

And Ive seen Carlton, Collingwood, Adelaide, Norwood, Sturt, South, every other team in Australias supporters have a go at umpires. And what exactly does the crowd giving it to umpires if it was the other way around have to do with anything at all?

yes they all do. with port its constant


I disagree, and as ive said, in my opinion, Norwoods terrible tactics had more to do with the end result as opposed to the umpiring. They play football for the last 20 minutes, they win. Simple.

agreed they would of. also would of won if they did what they did and the umpires were consistent that day.

You need to watch the match again.

yes


I understand the situation of the game. Ive watched the match 50 times. You havent seen it in 12 years. Id love to sit down and watch it as long as you dont bring up 3rd hand opinions from your norwood buddies.

yes maybe when im in adelaide we should watch it
my 2 norwood supporter friends cant watch it.
cenatrals lost 3 games that year..ALL to norwood. norwood hammered them every time. who ever won that prelim was going to win the grand final. some would argue ( and rightly so) that that shit umpiring cost norwood a flag.


We did get a good run with the umps but it doesnt mean its the only reason for the result. Getting more frees also doesnt mean its a great run. If the frees are there, they are there. Theres probably one or two dubious frees Port got for the day.

and there is alot that norwood didn't get. and the token ones they got were in defence... not good enough for a prelim final.


How often does the free kick count mirror the scoreboard? Very very rarely. In any case, pretty much every supporter base every week thinks they get a raw deal...no matter what the free kick count is.

mirrors the scoreboard alot i think..if its close and tight the stats deinately mirror the scoreboard. if a team is first to the balla nd hammers the other they usually get more frees. norwood led by the greatest margin that day did all the hard work and got nothing


Thats your opinion. Ask Crows supporters how they feel about the umpiring in the 93 Prelim.

true the crows got a shit run in the second half..that is one good example. however essendon did all the running and were first to the ball in the second half...so were norwood, wait they couldnt get jack shit.

 

[footy75]

macca mate i'm still waiting for you to tell me about the goal norwood got from a free kick...

 

[Larry the Liquidator]

I remember that match.

I was at a party with my girlfriend at the time and we were about 4 goals down. I was the only one interested in the game because I was at a party full of weirdos who talked and dressed funny who worked with my chick at the time. I kept going outside to my car to get updates on the radio and have quick smokes and from memory we were about 4 goals down with about 20 minutes to go in the final quarter. I was resigned to the fact we were going to lose and was pretty down about it. I didn't go back for any more updates. I tried to cheer myself up by thinking 'oh well, the past two premierships were fun time to let someone else win', but it didn't work, I was still down. What made it worse was it was against Norwood.

Anyhow I get home from that weird party and my dad says 'well done good comeback'. I thought he must have got it wrong or was teasing me. I turn the radio on and find out that Port gets up by less than 6 points. I was pumped and nearly cried tears of joy. Later on the news I am taping the highlights and I'm telling you now, if I had to watch live Scotty Hodges take that kick from 50 out on the boundary with what, about 25 seconds to go, I would have had a heart attack.

I rank that win 3rd only to Port beating Lions in 2004 and Port beating WWT Eagles in 1994.

Ahh you got to love the Port/Norwood rivallary.

 

[footy75]

macca i'm still waiting. what goal did norwood get from a free kick that day? you wouldn't be making things up now would you...
i'm very interested to know.

you are the only person I have heard say that the umpiring was good that day and norwood wern't completely robbed. Port mates included.

 

[Macca19]

Sorry, forgot about this thread. Reade was given a 25m for a late hit in one of the middle two quarters.

I never said the umpiring was good. I said that the umpiring was not the reason that Norwood lost the game and that it was their stupid tactics in the last quarter.

Anyway, im over it.