Society/Culture Universities create our right wing politics

[dropbear101]

this comes from my own experience so i'm keen to see what others think.

90% of our political class spends a significant chunk of their life at university. i think this creates our left wing political environment but more interestingly i also think it creates our right-wing political culture.

- basically at university your socialised into viewing the world from a particular perspective. this is left wing. I can bring up a variety of points to support this but i think the most telling is that 5% (if that) of professors are right wing.


the reason all this relates to conservative politicians is that they too attend university. now, we come to my own experiences. i'm non-aligned politically. i do however generally vote left-wing but not always. i'm white and i'm a male. I've recently gone back to university as a mature aged student. And because of all this, I have some observations about how it affects my viewpoints.

In real life, being white and a male, life is your oyster (except perhaps in some corporations, long story don't ask).
in university, you feel under siege. thus, I think the reason our conservative politicians act the way they do isn't because of their understanding of real life but because of experiencing a culture in their formative years.

University therefore produces 2 political cultures. one very sure of itself with the belief it is on the right side of history and the other with a siege mentality. 2 sides with a real animosity towards one another. I think this benefits nobody. perhaps our culture wars are actually more institutionally produced. because if you talk to normal people, everyone just wants to watch the footy.

 

[barreness]

this comes from my own experience so i'm keen to see what others think.

90% of our political class spends a significant chunk of their life at university. i think this creates our left wing political environment but more interestingly i also think it creates our right-wing political culture.

- basically at university your socialised into viewing the world from a particular perspective. this is left wing. I can bring up a variety of points to support this but i think the most telling is that 5% (if that) of professors are right wing.

View attachment 1996738
the reason all this relates to conservative politicians is that they too attend university. now, we come to my own experiences. i'm non-aligned politically. i do however generally vote left-wing but not always. i'm white and i'm a male. I've recently gone back to university as a mature aged student. And because of all this, I have some observations about how it affects my viewpoints.

In real life, being white and a male, life is your oyster (except perhaps in some corporations, long story don't ask).
in university, you feel under siege. thus, I think the reason our conservative politicians act the way they do isn't because of their understanding of real life but because of experiencing a culture in their formative years.

University therefore produces 2 political cultures. one very sure of itself with the belief it is on the right side of history and the other with a siege mentality. 2 sides with a real animosity towards one another. I think this benefits nobody. perhaps our culture wars are actually more institutionally produced. because if you talk to normal people, everyone just wants to watch the footy.

The stats are interesting, conservative viewpoints seemingly remain the same where as the mixed lollies appear to go left. So you're contention is that it's easier to 'follow the herd' into more liberal opinions? or that further education would lead those people to forming more liberal positions?

I think socially liberal position is a very easy one to take; you do you babe. A conservative opinion generally requires an oppositional position to certain things; you shouldn't do this and I'll try to force it
This is almost the opposite case on the left/right divide on economic positions.
So in an educated society we get social liberal, economically right wing people. What do you know? Path of least resistance

Imo the culture war is politically produced to confuse what are two very similar parties into dividing camps to cease the opportunity of actual change

 

[Engimal v3]

this comes from my own experience so i'm keen to see what others think.

90% of our political class spends a significant chunk of their life at university. i think this creates our left wing political environment but more interestingly i also think it creates our right-wing political culture.

- basically at university your socialised into viewing the world from a particular perspective. this is left wing. I can bring up a variety of points to support this but i think the most telling is that 5% (if that) of professors are right wing.

View attachment 1996738
the reason all this relates to conservative politicians is that they too attend university. now, we come to my own experiences. i'm non-aligned politically. i do however generally vote left-wing but not always. i'm white and i'm a male. I've recently gone back to university as a mature aged student. And because of all this, I have some observations about how it affects my viewpoints.

In real life, being white and a male, life is your oyster (except perhaps in some corporations, long story don't ask).
in university, you feel under siege. thus, I think the reason our conservative politicians act the way they do isn't because of their understanding of real life but because of experiencing a culture in their formative years.

University therefore produces 2 political cultures. one very sure of itself with the belief it is on the right side of history and the other with a siege mentality. 2 sides with a real animosity towards one another. I think this benefits nobody. perhaps our culture wars are actually more institutionally produced. because if you talk to normal people, everyone just wants to watch the footy.

People turned conservative by universities were always destined to be losers anyway.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

In real life, being white and a male, life is your oyster (except perhaps in some corporations, long story don't ask).
in university, you feel under siege. thus, I think the reason our conservative politicians act the way they do isn't because of their understanding of real life but because of experiencing a culture in their formative years.

Why do you feel under siege? What causes it? Do people at university behave badly to you specifically because you're a white male and for no other reason?

University therefore produces 2 political cultures. one very sure of itself with the belief it is on the right side of history and the other with a siege mentality.

Wrong. They're both absolutely sure they're on the right side of history. I've heard conservatives use that phrase just as much as I've heard progressives use it (and it's ridiculous no matter whom it comes from).

2 sides with a real animosity towards one another. I think this benefits nobody. perhaps our culture wars are actually more institutionally produced. because if you talk to normal people, everyone just wants to watch the footy.

Define "normal people". The ABS says about half of all school leavers go to university now.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The stats are interesting, conservative viewpoints seemingly remain the same where as the mixed lollies appear to go left. So you're contention is that it's easier to 'follow the herd' into more liberal opinions? or that further education would lead those people to forming more liberal positions?

I think socially liberal position is a very easy one to take; you do you babe. A conservative opinion generally requires an oppositional position to certain things; you shouldn't do this and I'll try to force it
This is almost the opposite case on the left/right divide on economic positions.
So in an educated society we get social liberal, economically right wing people. What do you know? Path of least resistance

Imo the culture war is politically produced to confuse what are two very similar parties into dividing camps to cease the opportunity of actual change

I was following your logic right up until the bolded part. Sorry, what? That's a complete non-sequitur.

 

[dropbear101]

Why do you feel under siege? What causes it? Do people at university behave badly to you specifically because you're a white male and for no other reason?

tbh, I've gotten used to it. but for the first 2 months, i was a bit weirded out by it. i've never received it directly unless you count being told as a group. but, i would be sacked if i said what they say.

i think the post is much more a reflection upon my 1st year back in uni. and the reactions/emotions/other stuff. i've very much gotten over the siege mentality. but, i can see how other don't.

Define "normal people". The ABS says about half of all school leavers go to university now.

really, interesting. didn't know that

The stats are interesting, conservative viewpoints seemingly remain the same where as the mixed lollies appear to go left. So you're contention is that it's easier to 'follow the herd' into more liberal opinions? or that further education would lead those people to forming more liberal positions?

I think socially liberal position is a very easy one to take; you do you babe. A conservative opinion generally requires an oppositional position to certain things; you shouldn't do this and I'll try to force it
This is almost the opposite case on the left/right divide on economic positions.
So in an educated society we get social liberal, economically right wing people. What do you know? Path of least resistance

Imo the culture war is politically produced to confuse what are two very similar parties into dividing camps to cease the opportunity of actual change

i think thats the centre left position. 'you do you babe'. however i would say universities left wing culture is much more reactionary/revolutionary. and much more about changing the world.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

tbh, I've gotten used to it. but for the first 2 months, i was a bit weirded out by it. i've never received it directly unless you count being told as a group. but, i would be sacked if i said what they say.

i think the post is much more a reflection upon my 1st year back in uni. and the reactions/emotions/other stuff. i've very much gotten over the siege mentality. but, i can see how other don't.

Okay, but what were you weirded out by? What sorts of things did they say? That's what I'm in the dark about. It's hard to understand what causes people to go into a siege mentality without knowing that.

I'd also say that in many contexts there are things that other people can acceptably say based on who they are, that other people can't, and that's just the way of the world. For example, my neighbour can call his best mate a dickhead and it's understood to not be an issue between them, but if I did the same I'm sure it'd be taken as an insult.

 

[dropbear101]

Okay, but what were you weirded out by? What sorts of things did they say? That's what I'm in the dark about. It's hard to understand what causes people to go into a siege mentality without knowing that.

I'd also say that in many contexts there are things that other people can acceptably say based on who they are, that other people can't, and that's just the way of the world. For example, my neighbour can call his best mate a dickhead and it's understood to not be an issue between them, but if I did the same I'm sure it'd be taken as an insult.

professor at a cafe - all men need to be investigated. we don't know what they might have done. they might all be pedo's.
little things like cafe workers not smiling or talking if group they don't like comes near.
professor to class - to many men here, to many f**king white men. (first day of class)
real emphasis on our current society is like a leech on the world (in an environmental way). which is to an extent true. but the follow up is a moral judgment on the west. which to an extent is true.
just a lot of stuff like that.

for me as a fairly middle of the road/center left individual (think npc) it was weird. you're not helping achieve your aims. furthermore, it cements in young men's minds that the intellectual class doesn't like them. so dunno what they're doing tbh. I also wonder about lack of pushback. i certainly don't, i kinda got used to it. i was going for a walk the other day and started thinking about it. i ultimately concluded the whole thing was weird for a group of highly educated well-read people.

however, with the war in gaza. i haven't heard any of the same stuff this semester. If anything the people at university have suddenly become rather quiet. except for the people who care about gaza.

 

[barreness]

I was following your logic right up until the bolded part. Sorry, what? That's a complete non-sequitur.

Yeh lol, pay that. I thought about this post later and was like that doesn't really work. I think there's something there but I need to hash out my own thoughts before I start throwing stuff like that around

 

[barreness]

i think thats the centre left position. 'you do you babe'. however i would say universities left wing culture is much more reactionary/revolutionary. and much more about changing the world.

I don't think you can be both, but generally I take your point

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yeh lol, pay that. I thought about this post later and was like that doesn't really work. I think there's something there but I need to hash out my own thoughts before I start throwing stuff like that around

It's all good, I've done that before too.

 

[evolved2]

I don't remember discussing politics often at University or feeling like I was being pushed in any direction. The students were far more interested in studies, employment, the opposite sex, friends, beer, etc and lecturers didn't push their political views.

 

[dropbear101]

I don't remember discussing politics often at University or feeling like I was being pushed in any direction. The students were far more interested in studies, employment, the opposite sex, friends, beer, etc and lecturers didn't push their political views.

first time i went to uni. I agree. perhaps I had an out of the box 1st semester back.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Why do you feel under siege? What causes it? Do people at university behave badly to you specifically because you're a white male and for no other reason?

My last degree (psychology, I have three others in business) was a bit confronting when I was taught about "whiteness", and the way it was taught felt like an attempt to make me feel bad for being born white.

This was bviously an anecdotal experience, but there's nothing wrong with having an anecdotal experience.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

My last degree (psychology, I have three others in business) was a bit confronting when I was taught about "whiteness", and the way it was taught felt like an attempt to make me feel bad for being born white.

I'm sorry that was the case. What specifically made you feel that way? Did other white people in the class react the same way?

 

[ManInTheArena]

I'm sorry that was the case. What specifically made you feel that way? Did other white people in the class react the same way?

I can't remember specifically to be honest, other than I was taught about whiteness and privilage and I felt the lecturer went way too far with it to the point I felt awkward for being white. It was online so I don't know how others felt.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Imagining having 4 degree behind you and coming up with stuff. Trump Uni?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think this benefits nobody. perhaps our culture wars are actually more institutionally produced. because if you talk to normal people, everyone just wants to watch the footy.

Coming back to this, I'm interested in how this is split by gender. Does the average young woman just want to watch the footy, or another similar regular pastime? Or is that more a phenomenon of young men?

As I'd said before, about half of all young school leavers go on to university. And there's a clear female majority amongst uni students. About 61% of bachelors graduates each year are women.

I think it'd be logical for young women to care much more about culture wars, because they are still socially disadvantaged in some ways (gender pay gap in roles of the same level, expectation to put up with bad behaviour from men, greater fear of sexual assault) and that often results in greater recognition and empathy towards other disadvantages too.

Then add to that the greater level of higher education among young women. Higher education often opens up new perspectives and educates people on problems encountered in society and how the evidence says to address them.

I think it's likely that "normal" young women are not as politically apathetic as "normal" young men.

 

[EagleShore]

I don't remember discussing politics often at University or feeling like I was being pushed in any direction. The students were far more interested in studies, employment, the opposite sex, friends, beer, etc and lecturers didn't push their political views.

You mean, back when it actually did not matter if you had brown skin, white skin, or black skin, or were Malaysian, or were gay/bi, a female, a male, or slightly older (mature aged students rather than school leavers)?

When I was at uni, yeah it was still a bit tough to come out (I went out with a girl for a while, who is still a friend), but that was all changing literally during the course of my degree.

I can honestly say that there was no racism, a settling of homophobic sentiments (only held by the religious types back then really) and everyone got along and had friendship groups that were inherently diverse, including students from public and private backgrounds.

It seems our culture has gone backwards to a time where people perceive external differences to be a threat. This saddens me.

I wonder if social media and identity politics has anything to do with that.

 

[EagleShore]

I can't remember specifically to be honest, other than I was taught about whiteness and privilage and I felt the lecturer went way too far with it to the point I felt awkward for being white. It was online so I don't know how others felt.

The big factor missing from this kind of ideology is that economic status correlates much more strongly than skin colour in our society. No one can tell me that a white kid from Belmont has more advantages than a kid of Indian heritage who has a doctor as a Mother and an accountant as a Father.

Perhaps when accounting for such status, then yes, I would agree that an Indigenous kid, for instance, from Belmont probably has less privilege than a white kid from Belmont, but then you need to go into other factors like parental behaviour, presence or absence of addictions in the household, and other factors that are hard to use broad brush strokes to describe.

The point is, I would've pushed back on that lecturer and got them to acknowledge that there are more factors than simply the colour of one's skin to consider when making assertions about privilege and oppression.

But then, as a white male, it is foreseeable that I may subsequently have been accused of being too assertive/abusing my privilege to engage in such discourse. Then again, I am gay, so that puts me slightly ahead of the straight white male in the pecking order.

And therein lies the problem. Universities used to be places where ideas could be freely discussed. Now, I am not so sure this can be said of all of them.

 

[Gethelred]

The big factor missing from this kind of ideology is that economic status correlates much more strongly than skin colour in our society. No one can tell me that a white kid from Belmont has more advantages than a kid of Indian heritage who has a doctor as a Mother and an accountant as a Father.

Perhaps when accounting for such status, then yes, I would agree that an Indigenous kid, for instance, from Belmont probably has less privilege than a white kid from Belmont, but then you need to go into other factors like parental behaviour, presence or absence of addictions in the household, and other factors that are hard to use broad brush strokes to describe.

The point is, I would've pushed back on that lecturer and got them to acknowledge that there are more factors than simply the colour of one's skin to consider when making assertions about privilege and oppression.

But then, as a white male, it is foreseeable that I may subsequently have been accused of being too assertive/abusing my privilege to engage in such discourse. Then again, I am gay, so that puts me slightly ahead of the straight white male in the pecking order.

And therein lies the problem. Universities used to be places where ideas could be freely discussed. Now, I am not so sure this can be said of all of them.

Out of interest, how long has it been since you were at university?

Your post indicates that you think universities are not places where ideas can be discussed. Do you have many recent experiences that cause you to think this?

 

[ManInTheArena]

Out of interest, how long has it been since you were at university?

Your post indicates that you think universities are not places where ideas can be discussed. Do you have many recent experiences that cause you to think this?

It's just not worth it socially. Imagine if I pushed back on being taught "whiteness" and that I was privileged. Social suicide in a university.

I don't think ideas can be discussed without serious social ramifications, and this is the problem with woke ideology, they have the upmost confidence in their righteousness due to lack of push back, not realising that majority of the population disagree but don't want to sacrifice their social status to verbalise it. Then thier head is spinning and they are astounded at society when right wing political parties are elected.

 

[ManInTheArena]

The big factor missing from this kind of ideology is that economic status correlates much more strongly than skin colour in our society. No one can tell me that a white kid from Belmont has more advantages than a kid of Indian heritage who has a doctor as a Mother and an accountant as a Father.

Perhaps when accounting for such status, then yes, I would agree that an Indigenous kid, for instance, from Belmont probably has less privilege than a white kid from Belmont, but then you need to go into other factors like parental behaviour, presence or absence of addictions in the household, and other factors that are hard to use broad brush strokes to describe.

The point is, I would've pushed back on that lecturer and got them to acknowledge that there are more factors than simply the colour of one's skin to consider when making assertions about privilege and oppression.

But then, as a white male, it is foreseeable that I may subsequently have been accused of being too assertive/abusing my privilege to engage in such discourse. Then again, I am gay, so that puts me slightly ahead of the straight white male in the pecking order.

And therein lies the problem. Universities used to be places where ideas could be freely discussed. Now, I am not so sure this can be said of all of them.

There's prejudice everywhere though.

If you're fat, have tattoos, have a disability, are a different race, are old, young, gay, etc. you'll get prejudiced against.

We're bloody humans and that's what we do. Either prove the prejudice wrong or sit around being a victim, it's up to the individual but only one way is effectual.

 

[Gethelred]

It's just not worth it socially. Imagine if I pushed back on being taught "whiteness" and that I was privileged. Social suicide in a university.

Let's be specific, first.

Which classes are teaching this - what degrees, what subjects - and what specifically is being said at length?

Let's get the issue clearly on the table, before I take a position for or against it.

I don't think ideas can be discussed without serious social ramifications, and this is the problem with woke ideology, they have the upmost confidence in their righteousness due to lack of push back, not realising that majority of the population disagree but don't want to sacrifice their social status to verbalise it. Then thier head is spinning and they are astounded at society when right wing political parties are elected.

... and this is why.

This is not an accurate representation of university as I attended them, and I'm currently graduating from a victorian uni with a masters. I've been to Monash (both Caulfield and Clayton), Deakin and La Trobe universities between undergrad and postgrad, wasting a truly prolific amount of time studying some very niche things. Among those things was critical theory, which is where feminism and a lot of the theory and philosophy around what is considered wokeism or whiteness theory is based upon.

This - to me - reads as a misunderstanding of what whiteness theory actually hypothesizes.

 

[stefcep]

Let's be specific, first.

Which classes are teaching this - what degrees, what subjects - and what specifically is being said at length?

Let's get the issue clearly on the table, before I take a position for or against it.

... and this is why.

That is such a broad demand to make that no-one is going to bother answering. Melb Uni literally has a course called Gender Studies that is entirely devoted to pushing gender and identity ideology and theory as fact onto students.

This is not an accurate representation of university as I attended them, and I'm currently graduating from a victorian uni with a masters. I've been to Monash (both Caulfield and Clayton), Deakin and La Trobe universities between undergrad and postgrad, wasting a truly prolific amount of time studying some very niche things. Among those things was critical theory, which is where feminism and a lot of the theory and philosophy around what is considered wokeism or whiteness theory is based upon.

This - to me - reads as a misunderstanding of what whiteness theory actually hypothesizes.

The fact that a concept of "whiteness" is even permitted as a topic of tertiary education is disturbing.

The idea that somehow just being white automatically confers socio-economic advantage is a racist statement and is not in accord with reality.

For example, many of Australia's post-war migrants were white, but were fleeing generational oppression and poverty. They arrived with literally no belongings, wealth or position, had limited opportunity (and lets be frank suffered discrimination and racism) Their children did not attend the best schools with the best facilities and a path to the best paid jobs and careers.

What did their "whiteness" do for those white migrants?

Nothing.

These people were far worse off than today's colored migrants, many of whom are middle class English speaking Indian or Chinese., who enjoy governement services and protections that just didn't exist back then and whose children make up a disproportionate number at the most prestigious universities and courses.

But all that's in the past

What matters is that instead of providing practical pathways for people to move up socio-economically eg education, stregthening the nuclear family unit, prevention of drug and alcohol abuse, irrespective of race, we have the lie of "whiteness" propogated by our best Universities as the root cause of basically everything bad, the white male being the worst of the worst.

And yet it escapes these people at the very campuses where this occurs, are disproptionately populated by non-whites students with all the opportunity their access to education provides.