Roast Vent Here

Remove this Banner Ad

Undertaker said:
Ross Lyon & Steve Rosich was the reason Neale left, remember Bell never wanted Hogan, Lyon and Rosich over ruled him. 2 years later Lyon gets sacked and Rosich spits the chewy and walks. Our record bringing in expats is not good Hogan, McCarthy, Bennell, Lobb, O'Meara, Wilson, Collier, Hamling and there are others have all failed for one reason or another. Clark & Jackson are the exceptions.
We are terrible at TRADING and should just stick to DRAFTING young talent which has been pretty good.
Click to expand...
I still can't believe that people would rather think Bell somehow got overruled by Rosich as opposed to either changing his mind, or (much more likely) that it was in fact just the negotiating position it looked like at the time. I know I've harped on about this before, but:

Scenario A: Even though Bell as head of footy did not report to Rosich as CEO (he reports to the board) and the position Rosich was occupying as temporary list manager reported TO Bell he allowed him and mean Ross to overule him without designated authority like a cuck.

Scenario B: Even though he didn't start the process he definitely finished it. I.E. Bell bares responsibility for the Hogan trade.

It seems like some people want to believe B didn't happen without accepting the implications of A.
 
The lesson to be learnt that we haven’t is “Dont keep under value our players” pay them what there worth. Lachie, duel Brownlow medalist and we pushed him out the door, **** me dead this club needs to look at its self.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
 
Geoff said:
The lesson to be learnt that we haven’t is “Dont keep under value our players” pay them what there worth. Lachie, duel Brownlow medalist and we pushed him out the door, * me dead this club needs to look at its self.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
We didn’t push him out and he didn’t leave because we weren’t prepared to match Brisbanes offer. Plenty of other things at play. Hence why there was a massive cleanup of all levels at the club after he left
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Geoff said:
The lesson to be learnt that we haven’t is “Dont keep under value our players” pay them what there worth. Lachie, duel Brownlow medalist and we pushed him out the door, * me dead this club needs to look at its self.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
One of the worst things you can do when trying to work out what's going wrong is overreact, which is exactly what you're doing here.
 
Taylor said:
Brisbane brought in: Daniher, Neale, Cameron, McKenna, Dunkley, Ah Chee, McCarthy (just from the side on the weekend) with academy players of Harris Andrews, Eric Hipwood, Coleman and father son picks of Fletcher (not including Ashcroft).

7 mature bodies via trades/list concession by my count, 3 academy picks and a father son. Half the side.

Collingwood: Howe, Hill, Lipinski, McStay, Hoskin-Elliot, Cox, Crisp, Mitchell, Cameron, Markov. Moore, Quaynor, Daicos, Daicos as father son/academy players.

14 of theirs from trades/free agents/academy/father son/list concessions allowing outside the draft targeting of players.

That doesn't include Taylor Adams from GWS, Nathan Kreuger from Geelong, Billy Frampton from Port
Click to expand...
That’s impressive. Both clubs have been able to attract talent. Unfortunately we went at that point yet. They’ve got a lot of players not even from their home state.
 
Sully90 said:
One of the worst things you can do when trying to work out what's going wrong is overreact, which is exactly what you're doing here.
Click to expand...

Overreact really, a club with a history like ours tells me it doesn’t learn, I can handle c graders looking for greener pastures but not a bloke who has notched two Charlie’s. Something terribly wrong. A player who walked to another club and is equal to Fyfe and the possibility of a medallion, I know who’s the winner here.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
 
Sully90 said:
Yeah like it or not, good trading is an essential part of a rebuild now. We have to get that part of our game on par with our drafting.
Click to expand...
It’s honestly not that bad compared to the GF teams. The main difference was they were down the bottom while we were contending in 2012-2015 & we stuffed the draft thru that period so a massive rebuild.

Collingwood got Fleeced on Grundy, Treloar & Beams.

Brisbane lost more players than anybody while we were contending.

It’s turning since 2018 and we just traded role players for an A grader and people just whinge about Acres or Cost. Who cares, we are top tier at drafting and development so we don’t need high picks.

Age of our players is the biggest factor compared to flag teams, people need patience.
 
Carnthedockers said:
That’s impressive. Both clubs have been able to attract talent. Unfortunately we went at that point yet. They’ve got a lot of players not even from their home state.
Click to expand...

But don’t you know they have player retention problems that’s why they need access to NGA’s that we can’t have…all the while they take our midfielder who then wins two Brownlow’s

**** the AFL
 
Sully90 said:
No team will ever win a premiership again from just drafting alone. Every premiership team going back to the Hawthorn dynasty has has multiple wins at the trade table when putting together their list.
Click to expand...
You can go back even further. The mob up the road traded in Daniel Chick and more importantly Tyson Stenglein who were very influential in their 06 premiership. Steven Armstrong I think they got for free. Meanwhile Sydney traded in at least 6-7 from
The top of my head
 
Geoff said:
Overreact really, a club with a history like ours tells me it doesn’t learn, I can handle c graders looking for greener pastures but not a bloke who has notched two Charlie’s. Something terribly wrong. A player who walked to another club and is equal to Fyfe and the possibility of a medallion, I know who’s the winner here.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

Woe is me and all that.

Brownlow's are a great measure of a player's worth.
Matt Priddis was clearly a better player than Joel Selwood, Scott Pendlebury and our very own Matt Pavlich.
 
theGav56 said:
Pick 4 for Neale may not have been overkill but it's around the mark. We shat the bed using it on Hogan instead of King.
Click to expand...
It was never pick 4. Brisbane started with Pick 5. My memory is that Brisbane offered 5 as a stand-alone but were then willing to offer some change but never enough. Our problem was that we went into that trade period with pick 6 only. We had no other picks (round 2 traded in 2017 for Wilson, round 3 traded in 2017 for Matera and round 4 traded out in 2017 for Crozier deal). I think people forget how hamstrung we were in 2018. We went all chips in on pick 2 and then used other pieces to bring in some players.

We rejected Brisbane’s offer because we wanted another late first or very early second along with it, which is by the way more than reasonable request from Freo.

What we then did is a silly trade with Port for 11, two seconds and an early third. With Neale contracted we should have sat on the request and I’m sure Brisbane would have come to the party.

We would have had 5,6 and a pick around 19-22. We could have traded that 19-22 pick with GWS for Lobb and change (ie pick 47 for eg.).

Port wanted Rozee real bad we could have then gone to Port you go off and get another top 10 pick and we’ll consider trading it for 5. Port had 11 and could have traded up a couple of spots using those seconds we received and got us pick 8-10. Then offered us a F1 for pick 5 along with pick 8-10 and perhaps another pick in the 40’s. It would be a deal so far in our favour they wanted Rozee so badly.

We then would have had say:
6,9/10, 45,47 and two firsts for 2019 (which would have been very handy when it came to being in a better position for Henry and trades in 2019).

Pick 6 would have got us Ben King and the other pick early enough to get Jordan Clark who Walls wanted badly.

All great in hindsight but we didn’t play that trade period well at all.
 
Superkoops said:
It was never pick 4. Brisbane started with Pick 5. My memory is that Brisbane offered 5 as a stand-alone but were then willing to offer some change but never enough. Our problem was that we went into that trade period with pick 6 only. We had no other picks (round 2 traded in 2017 for Wilson, round 3 traded in 2017 for Matera and round 4 traded out in 2017 for Crozier deal). I think people forget how hamstrung we were in 2018. We went all chips in on pick 2 and then used other pieces to bring in some players.

We rejected Brisbane’s because we wanted another late first or very early second along with it, which is by the way more than reasonable request from Freo.

What we then did is a silly trade with Port for 11, two seconds and an early third. With Neale contracted we should have sat on the request and I’m sure Brisbane would have come to the party.

We would have had 5,6 and a pick around 19-22. We could have traded that 19-22 pick with GWS for Lobb and change (ie pick 47 for eg.).

Port wanted Rozee real bad we could have then gone to Port you go off and get another top 10 pick and we’ll consider trading it for 5. Port had 11 and could have traded up a couple of spots using those seconds we received and got us pick 8-10. Then offered us a F1 for pick 5 along with pick 8-10 and perhaps another pick in the 40’s. It would be a deal so far in our favour they wanted Rozee so badly.

We then would have had say:
6,9/10, 45,47 and two firsts for 2019 (which would have been very handy when it came to being in a better position for Henry and trades in 2019).

Pick 6 would have got us Ben King and the other pick early enough to get Jordan Clark who Walls wanted badly.

All great in hindsight but we didn’t play that trade period well at all.
Click to expand...
Fantastic post agree with all of it and have written in detail about this before on here.
Handing port an Upgrade to pick 6 from 11 for what amounted to absolute peanuts still makes me ill.
That fact it was a superdraft where the top 7 players were bracketed as the elite tier before the draft makes it look even worse.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Dockeroo said:
Fantastic post agree with all of it and have written in detail about this before on here.
Handing port an Upgrade to pick 6 from 11 for what amounted to absolute peanuts still makes me ill.
That fact it was a superdraft where the top 7 players were bracketed as the elite tier before the draft makes it look even worse.
Click to expand...
It's funny that in hindsight it looks like peanuts but back then we all felt it was a ripper deal

Trading into the top 10 has changed significantly over the last 5 years, probably due to the introduction of trading futures, you pay a massive premium to get into the top 10 now, back in 2018 there wasn't that premium put on those picks, it has developed since, clubs have learnt just how much other clubs will pay
 
Dockeroo said:
Fantastic post agree with all of it and have written in detail about this before on here.
Handing port an Upgrade to pick 6 from 11 for what amounted to absolute peanuts still makes me ill.
That fact it was a superdraft where the top 7 players were bracketed as the elite tier before the draft makes it look even worse.
Click to expand...
I can actually understand why we did that trade with Port. It gave us from memory 11,23,30,43-45 (can’t remember the last one but around that mark). We pulled the trigger way too early during the Brissie negotiations. Obviously we thought 23 would be enough for Lobster but it wasn’t. We at least should have confirmed with GWS what would be enough and then we went and traded down from 11 to 14 and kissed goodbye Jordan Clark.

Brisbane were being extremely difficult and unreasonable. Then Neale came out and tossed out there that he didn’t want to play with Freo and he and Jules got all upset etc. etc. Bell’s feather in your cap crapola. We should have said from beginning pick 5 and late first/ start of second round or he stays and you can grab him as a free agent in 2019. He was after all under contract. The strength of that draft meant pick 5 was more valuable than other drafts and we needed a pick around 18-22 to top it off or give us F1. Brisbane managed to get 19. Sure we tossed a couple of other picks around incl. 30 back to them but the key component 5 and 19 would have done the trick.
 
freo_leo29 said:
The last dual Brownlow medallist went for

3, 20 and a 20 year old 2x Coleman, 3x AA kpf
Click to expand...
That draft top 10 wasn’t the quality of 2018. Carlton got priority pick and had pick 1 as well which they weren’t willing to trade under any circumstances.

Pick 20 used on a bloke that played not much more than about 2 games and had a bunch of fitness issues. Very little talent in the second round. Not comparable.

I agree though when you look at the trades we certainly could have extracted more from Neale. At the end of the day 5 and 19 with other pick swaps would have been more than reasonable for mine.
 
freo_leo29 said:
The last dual Brownlow medallist went for

3, 20 and a 20 year old 2x Coleman, 3x AA kpf
Click to expand...
Yeah but Judd had 2 All Australians, a Brownlow, a Lee Matthews trophy, 2 WCE Club Championships, a Norm Smith and a Premiership as captain at the time.

Lachie had just 1 of those categories covered off when he left.
 
Paracleet said:
Yeah but Judd had 2 All Australians, a Brownlow, a Lee Matthews trophy, 2 WCE Club Championships, a Norm Smith and a Premiership as captain at the time.

Lachie had just 1 of those categories covered off when he left.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately he wasn't a Victorian high draft pick with the reputation, otherwise his season when he broke the all time disposal record would have won him AA and a brownlow, as it did for Tom Mitchell the next year.
 
Superkoops said:
I can actually understand why we did that trade with Port. It gave us from memory 11,23,30,43-45 (can’t remember the last one but around that mark). We pulled the trigger way too early during the Brissie negotiations. Obviously we thought 23 would be enough for Lobster but it wasn’t. We at least should have confirmed with GWS what would be enough and then we went and traded down from 11 to 14 and kissed goodbye Jordan Clark.

Brisbane were being extremely difficult and unreasonable. Then Neale came out and tossed out there that he didn’t want to play with Freo and he and Jules got all upset etc. etc. Bell’s feather in your cap crapola. We should have said from beginning pick 5 and late first/ start of second round or he stays and you can grab him as a free agent in 2019. He was after all under contract. The strength of that draft meant pick 5 was more valuable than other drafts and we needed a pick around 18-22 to top it off or give us F1. Brisbane managed to get 19. Sure we tossed a couple of other picks around incl. 30 back to them but the key component 5 and 19 would have done the trick.
Click to expand...
The other thing to bare in mind is the trade wasn't in isolation from the Hogan trade. No Hogan and either Lachie is forced to stay a year or Brisbane pay more.

That we were going to be spending the cash from the Neale sale reduced its amount. I.e. they had a pretty good idea we 'had' to deal.
 
i blame that whole trade period on Hogan, take him out and Neale stays or goes for crazy overs. Hogan took our leverage out of that trade. We also don’t break things up if we don’t get Hogan and look to get Lobb done differently.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Roast Vent Here

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top