Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[greatwhiteshark]

What part do you disagree with?

It doesn’t matter though as there is only one game if the year you can win the premiership and that will always be an away game fir the WCE and other non vic clubs.
Can you imagine your side getting there and being at a disadvantage on that day.
Winning a flag against a VIC club is like a Herculean performance, that the clubs don’t get more credit when they do this boggles the mind.
It’s like running in the Melbourne cup but your horse has to jump hurdles.

 

[falcons2]

How much is the "Good Bloke" Defence the Victorian "National" media seem to run with on tribunal decisions for Vic Players opposed the "he deserves 5 games for that" they tend to go with for a Non Vic player?

Embarassing week to post this!
Parker (Syd VFL) bumps front on a Frankston kid - causing damage and gets 6 weeks.
Butters very similar on Meek, and because as his name suggests, causes no damage he gets a fine.
Given others are getting a week for the action, Butters is the luckiest bloke in football.

For fun throw in Drew's tackle on Newcombe. A Fine, Ask Harry Jones or Jack Scrimshaw after strong tackles that caused no damage.

 

[Underarm]

It doesn’t matter though as there is only one game if the year you can win the premiership and that will always be an away game fir the WCE and other non vic clubs

Yes. Ive said that.

But the mcg GF doesn't magically mean West coast don't get an advantage from playing Non WA fans at home. Nor does it mean they don't get that advantage more often than Vic clubs. Nor does it mean that travelling every 2nd week isn't also a factor.

They're all different advantages/disadvantages that affect different clubs differently.
But they all exist.

 

[VicBased]

You're right up there with the 2 collingwood clowns that totally don't understand the argument.
I'll try again just for you.
We understand the restrictions due to geography, nothing can be done about that, but there's plenty of other ways to even things out some.
But you keep dribbling your angle..

I have been saying for a long time that the two WA clubs travel every third week.
Easy to do, just get the Vic clubs to travel one extra week.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yes. Ive said that.

But the mcg GF doesn't magically mean West coast don't get an advantage from playing Non WA fans at home. Nor does it mean they don't get that advantage more often than Vic clubs. Nor does it mean that travelling every 2nd week isn't also a factor.

They're all different advantages/disadvantages that affect different clubs differently.
But they all exist.

Agree with all of that,

 

[doppleganger]

I have been saying for a long time that the two WA clubs travel every third week.
Easy to do, just get the Vic clubs to travel one extra week.

Even easier solution.

Get the WA clubs, to do an east coast double header a couple of times a season, like Melbourne did in SA and Gold Coast did in NT this year.

Stay in Melbourne and play Sunday game and then the following Friday night (bonus of a PRIME TIME blockbuster).

That way WA clubs only actually need to travel 8 times.

But of course, the WA "solution" is to give themselves even more home ground advantage games

 

[RUNVS]

Even easier solution.

Get the WA clubs, to do an east coast double header a couple of times a season, like Melbourne did in SA and Gold Coast did in NT this year.

Stay in Melbourne and play Sunday game and then the following Friday night (bonus of a PRIME TIME blockbuster).

That way WA clubs only actually need to travel 8 times.

But of course, the WA "solution" is to give themselves even more home ground advantage games

So your solution is for them to spend even more time away from home?

 

[Captivating]

I don't have that much time.

Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond would be well ahead I would think.

Not sure how the smaller vic sides, compare to the non vic sides, or SA and WA sides vs QLD and NSW sides.




My guess would be

Big Vic Sides (Collingwood slightly ahead due to marquee time slots, Carlton probably as well)
Day light
Geelong
then dead heat with
Small vic sides, NSW and QLD, and SA and WA sides. (Sydney, Crows and Eagles have some advantages, so they get 5m head start)

What I meant was, what's the purpose of this race. What does the winner get? What's this race and handicap system aimed at highlighting. A race to what?

 

[VicBased]

Even easier solution.

Get the WA clubs, to do an east coast double header a couple of times a season, like Melbourne did in SA and Gold Coast did in NT this year.

Stay in Melbourne and play Sunday game and then the following Friday night (bonus of a PRIME TIME blockbuster).

That way WA clubs only actually need to travel 8 times.

But of course, the WA "solution" is to give themselves even more home ground advantage games

There is the typical answer we would expect from you dg.
Don't allow for the away for a week factor, family etcetera.
No after games procedures for rub downs etc.
The list goes on but I can't be bothered with you as you only understand it when everything is in your favour.

 

[eagleroo]

Even easier solution.

Get the WA clubs, to do an east coast double header a couple of times a season, like Melbourne did in SA and Gold Coast did in NT this year.

Stay in Melbourne and play Sunday game and then the following Friday night (bonus of a PRIME TIME blockbuster).

That way WA clubs only actually need to travel 8 times.

But of course, the WA "solution" is to give themselves even more home ground advantage games

Like Fremantle did earlier this season, went to Adelaide for gather round, stayed and played Port the week after.

Heck even West Coast played in Melbourne the week before gather round and stayed there travelling to Adelaide on the Thursday. Reducing their flights by one and dropping the kilometres travelled too.

 

[go_the_dockers]

What I meant was, what's the purpose of this race. What does the winner get? What's this race and handicap system aimed at highlighting. A race to what?

The winner gets a premiership.

I guess the system is meant to highlight how each clubs get some advantages, and disadvantages and you need to consider them all together before you make any changes.

e.g. don't complain about accademies, if you won't give up the home grand final.

 

[btdg]

I don't have that much time.

Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond would be well ahead I would think.

Not sure how the smaller vic sides, compare to the non vic sides, or SA and WA sides vs QLD and NSW sides.




My guess would be

Big Vic Sides (Collingwood slightly ahead due to marquee time slots, Carlton probably as well)
Day light
Geelong
then dead heat with
Small vic sides, NSW and QLD, and SA and WA sides. (Sydney, Crows and Eagles have some advantages, so they get 5m head start)

Ah yes, those famously dominant big Victorian teams and their massive head start, including:

- Carlton - no regular season top 4 finish since 2000, no premierships in 30 years, winners of 20% of the wooden spoons this century

- Essendon, haven't won a final in meme years and no grand finals on more than 20. Could't even finish top 4 when they had a drugs program

- Richmond. 35 years of being bottom feeders, then a 4 year run where a unique set of players implemented a unique game plan and won 3 flags. Now back to the bottom.

- Collingwood - such perennial underachievers they coined a term for it (Colliwobbles) they have nonethless won a whopping two premierships in 30 years.

Meanwhile, those poor minnow clubs like West Coast (4 premierships since 1990), Brisbane (3 premierships this century, currently on a streak of 4 straight top 4 finishes) and Sydney (2.premierships and have played in a quarter of the grand finals of the last 20 years) just simply cannot compete.

So, so much Vicbias!

 

[doppleganger]

Like Fremantle did earlier this season, went to Adelaide for gather round, stayed and played Port the week after.

Heck even West Coast played in Melbourne the week before gather round and stayed there travelling to Adelaide on the Thursday. Reducing their flights by one and dropping the kilometres travelled too.

Yep, it is a pretty easy concept.

If the complaint is the travel load due to geography, do something proactive to reduce your travel load.

But the majority of WA wowsers think that they should be entitled to extra home advantage games!

 

[doppleganger]

So your solution is for them to spend even more time away from home?

Yep.

It improves recovery time, reduces travel load.

If there are a handful of players with wife and kids, get the entire family to come across for a holiday too. So they actually spend MORE time with their kids than they normally would if flying back and forth across the continent.

 

[doppleganger]

There is the typical answer we would expect from you dg.
Don't allow for the away for a week factor, family etcetera.
No after games procedures for rub downs etc.
The list goes on but I can't be bothered with you as you only understand it when everything is in your favour.

What a stupid take.

Staying would mean you get to implement the normal after game procedures. Can do proper recovery without having a 5hr flight getting in the way.

For the small number of players with kids, get them to come across with them for the week.

It is all upside on the usual fly in fly out appraoch.

 

[RUNVS]

Yep.

It improves recovery time, reduces travel load.

If there are a handful of players with wife and kids, get the entire family to come across for a holiday too. So they actually spend MORE time with their kids than they normally would if flying back and forth across the continent.

Players who are forced to spend more time away from home are more likely to request a trade.

 

[LoungeLizard]

What a stupid take.

Staying would mean you get to implement the normal after game procedures. Can do proper recovery without having a 5hr flight getting in the way.

For the small number of players with kids, get them to come across with them for the week.

It is all upside on the usual fly in fly out appraoch.

The teams that travel the longest have 11 brownlow medalists.

That recovery must be a pain.

Just taking a guess, I would say it's a furphy.

 

[bzparkes]

The teams that travel the longest have 11 brownlow medalists.

That recovery must be a pain.

Just taking a guess, I would say it's a furphy.

We found him guys, the one random bloke on the internet who knows more than all AFL coaches, players & sports medicos who have worked for both Victorian and interstate sides.

 

[LoungeLizard]

We found him guys, the one random bloke on the internet who knows more than all AFL coaches, players & sports medicos who have worked for both Victorian and interstate sides.

No you're wrong, they know more than I do, but I think I know more than you do though.

Do you have an answer to why so many brownlow medalists if recovery is so hampered by travel?

I bet crickets.

 

[bzparkes]

they know more than I do,

Yes, they sure do.

https://archive.md/1t5pw

All this talk of travel has highlighted one thing: unless you’re the one flying across the country every second week, season after season, you can’t really understand the toll it takes.
And the evidence is in the numbers.
Just three West Coast and Fremantle players have reached the 300-game milestone. And I believe it’s the accumulative effect of flying that cuts short the careers of West Australian players.
A stock-standard corky doesn’t take kindly to air travel. In fact, any injury where swelling is present is made worse by flying. It’s therefore inevitable that it will take the player longer to recover.
Multiple contusions or sprains throughout the duration of a player’s career will have a detrimental effect on their capacity to play high-level football.
I coached for long enough in Western Australia and Victoria to witness the difference. Travelling only four to six times a year is no comparison to travelling for half a season, every year.
I have so much admiration for all my past West Coast boys, who spent far more time in medical rooms and recovery centres than their Melbourne-based peers, in an attempt to negate the effects of flying so often.
Mick Malthouse coaching in 1990.
But it is a national competition, so the need for travel is non-negotiable. And there are elements of it that can be beneficial.
When I think back to my early days with the Eagles, I think the genesis of the success of the club was due to the adversity we faced in 1990 when we travelled for six-weeks straight.
We played Brisbane at Carrara in Round 21 and Geelong at Kardinia Park in Round 22, for must wins. We finished the home and away season third.
We drew our qualifying final with Collingwood at Waverley Park and had to replay the game the following week in Melbourne.
Then, although we finished higher than the Demons on the ladder, we were again made to play at Waverley Park in the semi-final, winning against all odds.
Travelling to Victoria again for our preliminary final against Essendon was made all the more difficult by an airline strike. We flew with the Perth Wildcats who took the front seats of the plane for the legroom. We had to take a detour to Kalgoorlie, then to Mildura, and then finally to Melbourne.

We notched up more kilometres than any other sporting team in the world at that time, in our sixth week of travelling in a row.
It was no wonder that we lost.
But my admiration for the playing group grew unbelievably. They never complained, even when playing sore with great effort to win. And there were no excuses when we finally bowed out.
The bond we gained from being together so much, from working together so well, from having a mutual goal in spite of the hardship, formed a connection that wasn’t lost on us the following year when we made the grand final, and the year after that when we won the premiership.
It was the birth of our resilience.
We perfected our travel routine, arriving in Melbourne and leaving within 24 hours like a raiding party. We would train in Perth in the morning before flying the day before the game. And we would be on the next flight out after our match to minimise our time away from home.
Essendon v West Coast 1990. Yes
Because the thing is, there is no easy solution for WA teams to play in the AFL. There are 10 Victorian teams which means the majority of games will be played in Melbourne (and Geelong) each season.
One thing I won’t advocate for is a 20-team competition, because I think the “solution” to the travel issue lies in reducing the number of clubs that call Victoria home.
Sydney was born from the relocation of South Melbourne. Brisbane from the move north of Fitzroy. If the league has any intestinal fortitude, they would relocate a further two Victorian clubs from the Melbourne bubble to other states.
It wouldn’t rectify the issue of travel, but it would go a small way towards balancing the travel ledger.
In the meantime, what is drastically needed at AFL headquarters, is a voice from the West.
The west needs a voice inside AFL headquarters. Yes
Someone with practical knowledge of the difference between a 1.30pm game and 4.30pm game for teams from the West. It’s not rocket science to work out that a 1.30pm game allows a West Australian team more time to get home on a four-hour flight and begin their rehab that night, as opposed to being waylaid in Melbourne for an extra night after a 4.30pm game that doesn’t finish until after 7pm.
There can’t be guesswork or what fits best with the TV networks. The primary concern must always be the health and safety of the players. The troops who are asked to play high-quality football each week to keep the competition intact.
Unless that voice is heard, there will always be a fundamental lack of understanding from the AFL of what it’s really like to live and play in WA.

 

[doppleganger]

The teams that travel the longest have 11 brownlow medalists.

That recovery must be a pain.

Just taking a guess, I would say it's a furphy.

The new take is it isnt actually the travel, it is a 20something bloke spending a couple of nights away with his 20something team-mates in hotels instead of being at home with their family that is the hard bit!!

Meanwhile, clubs like Collingwood send their players on pre-season camps away from family, have post season trips where players spend time together, and are now planning on spending an additional week away from Melbourne during the season.

Will need to keep an eye on trade requests come flooding in as players all want out.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yes, they sure do.

https://archive.md/1t5pw

I didn't think you could answer the question.

You do know to win a brownlow, you need to be at your peak for a whole year, 11 players have won brownlows from the teams that travel the most.

That number is too large, it's shows that it's not as taxing as many believe.

 

[bzparkes]

I didn't think you could answer the question.

You do know to win a brownlow, you need to be at your peak for a whole year, 11 players have won brownlows from the teams that travel the most.

That number is too large, it's shows that it's not as taxing as many believe.

I don't need to answer the question, a former AFL head coach gave you the reasons why it's harder.

You're just continuing to double-down on a stupid argument that only you believe to be true.

Are you Chris Scott IRL?

 

[doppleganger]

Yes, they sure do.

Mick is amazing, him an Trevor Nisbett both agree that blockbuster fatigue is worse than travel.

MALTHOUSE LAMENTS BLOCKBUSTER BURNOUT
Collingwood coach Mick Malthouse has launched a broadside at Melbourne, asking why the Demons could lift only for yesterday's match, reports The Herald Sun. The Pies eventually shrugged off a stubborn Demons outfit in the MCG blockbuster, winning by 21 points to set up an epic Carlton-Collingwood clash on Sunday. He said he was bemused that Melbourne had been able to play with such intensity yesterday, but rarely in most games this year. Malthouse also questioned his side's commitment to the Queen's Birthday clash, and hinted he would recommend to his administration it should consider the club's involvement in the future. He said the Pies got nothing from the handout to the Demons, with growing fears Collingwood is suffering blockbuster fatigue, where every MCG game it plays is against a frenzied side determined to hunt the Pies.

Playing so many BLOCKBUSTERS at the G is too hard on the poor Pies players. Should be so lucky as getting a game off broadway against Freo or Port, or perhaps North down in Tassie.

 

[bzparkes]

Playing so many BLOCKBUSTERS at the G is too hard on the poor Pies players. Should be so lucky as getting a game off broadway against Freo or Port, or perhaps North down in Tassie.

Did they 'travel' to Marvel the week before said games? That'd probably explain the poor princesses being 'tired'.

Or is it simply because they got bored of the crown yelling 'Ball!' any time one of their players got a fingernail on the oppo?