Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[mike123]

But they then also don’t have as many away games, That’s no trade off.

That is the trade off. Vic teams have less away gameS for less home games.

 

[Yojimbo]

Yet more bizarre left field issues to consider:

Since the year 2000 only four of the number one Draft Picks have not been of
pure blood or NAB/TAC base origin.
Nick Riewoldt- Southport Sharks
Adam Cooney- West Adelaide
Bryce Gibbs- Glenelg
David Swallow- East Fremantle

2019 National Draft (The Fortunate 65)
TAC/NAB Cup- 35/65 = 53.85%
WAFL- 14/65 = 21.54%
SANFL- 10/65 = 15.38%
Northern Academies- 4/65 = 6.15%
VFL- 1/65 = 1.54%
Scotch OC- 1/65 = 1.54%

Western Australia did win the championships so this may reflect their second
prize in the beauty contest, but will this shameful Victorian Bias ever end it
seems to be every where you look.

 

[B4Bear]

For me the biggest issue is the fact that some clubs play a lot of their games @ the Grand Final venue..and this becomes a huge advantage if one of those teams gets to the GF against an interstate club.....so if you cant shift the home of the GF....shift some of those tennant clubs around a bit more...

If you shift it to Marvel stadium I am on board.

Oh, sorry, what's that? You mean move it to WA.

How silly of me.

 

[Robertio]

But they then also don’t have as many away games, That’s no trade off.

It isn’t changing as we aren’t going to 2 Victorian clubs but let’s not make up advantages.

You don't think 12 games in NSW an advantage?

 

[B4Bear]

A bad argument though. Statistics prove that even Docklands tenants have an advantage at the MCG over a non-Victorian team.

Really? Care to provide some evidence for that claim?

 

[Port Adel Proud]

If the grand final were rotated among the larger stadiums, then it would be to the unquestionable promotion of the code in the "other" states. Does the AFL really care about the wider interests of the code ?

 

[faible]

But they then also don’t have as many away games, That’s no trade off.

It isn’t changing as we aren’t going to 2 Victorian clubs but let’s not make up advantages.

Most footy maths nerds have looked at this, squiggle did a great writeup on it a few years ago. Geelong probably has the best advantage of any side, their home games in Geelong have a true advantage, whilst away games played in Melbourne have no real disadvantage.

Fixture Analysis 2018: Home Ground Advantage - Squiggle

Note (July 2020): This post employs a very basic metric of Home Ground Advantage, where it’s basically all about geography. That’s good enough for roughing things, but I don’t believe it’s really the source of HGA, and my model hasn’t used something like this for a couple of years. The major...

squiggle.com.au

 

[B4Bear]

If the grand final were rotated among the larger stadiums, then it would be to the unquestionable promotion of the code in the "other" states. Does the AFL really care about the wider interests of the code ?

So now it is larger stadiums that is the criteria?

Poor old Hobart just doesn't make the cut. You are adding in your own bias because it suits your position.

 

[RUNVS]

Really? Care to provide some evidence for that claim?

Happy to

Footy Forensics: Does home ground advantage still exist?

A spate of upsets have left many of us pondering whether or not home ground advantage is still a thing in the AFL. It's time to answer that question.

www.espn.com

The stats are a few years old but you get the idea nonetheless.

 

[PerthblueGold]

I'm not saying that it's fair, it's clearly not...

But the unfair aspects where in place before these teams joined, it's not new...

And no one has told me a solution of where Vic clubs should play away games against other Vic clubs to make the comp "fairer"....

So apart from the GF being held at the G, instead of being shared around say like the Superbowl, or the higher team hosting it, what else could the AFL do to make it fairer....?

If you shift it to Marvel stadium I am on board.

Oh, sorry, what's that? You mean move it to WA.

How silly of me.

I actually said

If you shift it to Marvel stadium I am on board.

Oh, sorry, what's that? You mean move it to WA.

How silly of me.

GF at Marvel (or anywhere else really) when a MCG Tennant club meets an interstate team would be better.

 

[RUNVS]

If the grand final were rotated among the larger stadiums, then it would be to the unquestionable promotion of the code in the "other" states. Does the AFL really care about the wider interests of the code ?

The AFL wants the non-Victorian teams in the competition. They are even fine with non-Victorian teams doing well enough to get deep in the finals, they would just prefer it if at the end of the day a Victorian team won.

 

[B4Bear]

Happy to

Footy Forensics: Does home ground advantage still exist?

A spate of upsets have left many of us pondering whether or not home ground advantage is still a thing in the AFL. It's time to answer that question.

www.espn.com

The stats are a few years old but you get the idea nonetheless.

Your graph does not show that Marvel teams perform better at the MCG, as you stated. In fact it looks like they don't do very well at all away from their home ground.

 

[B4Bear]

The AFL wants the non-Victorian teams in the competition. They are even fine with non-Victorian teams doing well enough to get deep in the finals, they would just prefer it if at the end of the day a Victorian team won.

No worries boomer.

 

[RUNVS]

Your graph does not show that Marvel teams perform better at the MCG, as you stated. In fact it looks like they don't do very well at all away from their home ground.

No, but generally speaking the Marvel teams perform better at the MCG than they do at away grounds, which is the point.

 

[faible]

Your graph does not show that Marvel teams perform better at the MCG, as you stated. In fact it looks like they don't do very well at all away from their home ground.

It doesn't really capture that in the graph. Bulldogs play home games at Marvel and away games everywhere else, interstate and the MCG included.

If you read the Squiggle link I posted earlier you can see that they consider it's only a very minor advantage for an MCG tenant to host a Docklands one.

It's more relevant that many Docklands tenants haven't been strong on-field for large portions of the last two decades.

 

[WHOME]

You’re not wrong, but I’m sure you’re aware of what forced South Australia into making an unnecessarily hasty entry...

The horse (WA) had already bolted by that time, the battle was already lost.

On SM-G965F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Colonial]

That is the trade off. Vic teams have less away gameS for less home games.

Which is the trade off? More travel or more away games?


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[Milanista28]

Yet more bizarre left field issues to consider:

Since the year 2000 only four of the number one Draft Picks have not been of
pure blood or NAB/TAC base origin.
Nick Riewoldt- Southport Sharks
Adam Cooney- West Adelaide
Bryce Gibbs- Glenelg
David Swallow- East Fremantle

2019 National Draft (The Fortunate 65)
TAC/NAB Cup- 35/65 = 53.85%
WAFL- 14/65 = 21.54%
SANFL- 10/65 = 15.38%
Northern Academies- 4/65 = 6.15%
VFL- 1/65 = 1.54%
Scotch OC- 1/65 = 1.54%

Western Australia did win the championships so this may reflect their second
prize in the beauty contest, but will this shameful Victorian Bias ever end it
seems to be every where you look.

McGrath is Canadian tbf

 

[Colonial]

You don't think 12 games in NSW an advantage?

Less than, 16 or whatever it is,games in Victoria for Victorians


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[W.C. Fry]

Always love the stupid argument that we should just suck it up and abide by rules set when we joined the comp 33 years ago.
Times change.

 

[Apsaalooke]

Home ground advantage is crowds, that's it.

GF day the crowds split. I'd love to hear about all the other magical advantages

How about these

Travel - you mentioned it then forgot it. A big factor. The home team should get in a plane and fly around for 2 hours to even it up.

Accomodation - living in your own home or living in a hotel with unfamiliar surroundings, beds, pillows, food, snoring roommate and no family supports

Ground familiarity - more important than other sports given the different size and shape arenas in AFL. Game plans don't suit all different widths and lengths of grounds. Wind conditions, depth of pockets, dead spots, goal kicking knowledge etc. Even the bounce of the ball varies from state to state.

Crowd split - each team gets 17,000 with the rest to corporates and neutrals, some of which are sold to team fans. Some fans travel better than others. How many real fans did GWS have last year? Neutral fans who wouldn't mind a GWS/Fremantle etc win don't make much noise.

Psychology - defending home territory is a real thing that spurs the home team on.

Umpire neutrality - problematic. Tell that to Sydney who copped an all time low 8 free kicks to the Bulldogs 20

In a game of inches all these things add up to advantage the GF home team by several goals

 

[W.C. Fry]

This is the football equivalent of "I'm not racist, but".

Mate, what is racism? Don't you know the rules in 1987 when we joined the comp. Wogs, nips, n-words , certain brand of cheese. Its all good. Why change?

 

[Pessimistic]

Add a couple of 40k stadiums in suburban melbourne (near the new suburban rail loop) allocate 3 teams to each one, play home games there (with docklands)

Ration the MCG games so every AFL team has equal number of games there (two each week is 44 games which is 5 games each team)

Sounds a lot fairer for all (except NSW and QLD, Geelong having exclusive home ground)

of course non vic as well as vic teams lose a few home games, and there'll be a huge cost- to be shared equally between teams?

 

[Hank Heavenly]

But you didn't really address the concern I had--- how do you prevent AFL clubs using this as an additional 10% within the salary cap (as seen with the Swans with Tippett/Franklin in the early 2010's). Clubs could just recruit mostly players from other states & then offer them 10% less than they normally would (ie. less than what other clubs could offer them in a trade/FA) but use the extra 10% allowance to make the amount the same/slightly higher.

As I said in my last post-- great in theory, difficult in practice as clubs will always try to maximise potential loop holes in situations.

I think if the 10% per player is applied by say the league rather than the clubs, it can't be manipulated. I think in Sydneys case, they used the COLA allowance for the whole squad to lure two or three players with the extra cash

I actually said

GF at Marvel (or anywhere else really) when a MCG Tennant club meets an interstate team would be better.

So how do you plan for that, if effectively, you don't know who is playing until 1 week before?
How do you sell corporate packages if you don't know the stadium, who do you allocate "x" amount of seats to clubs, then "X" amount of seats to competing club members?

The Superbowl model works, because everyone knows the venue two years out from the event, planning is set...
If it happens to fall on a teams home ground, so be it, thats luck (or good planning) rather than Bias.
I could live with that.

 

[Robertio]

Less than, 16 or whatever it is,games in Victoria for Victorians


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Check out Carltons draw last year, we would love 11 games at the one venue.