Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

I just had a thought that it might be good to have a thread covering the history and opinions about the lead up to this war. Nothing from me yet, I don't have any expertise in the area. Just what I've watched and read online. Never read a book on the subject. Thoughts? What do you know or...

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Jamolad]

Putin polling pretty high...

Wow, you're right...a 137% approval rating is very high.

 

[Jello_B]

Wow, you're right...a 137% approval rating is very high.

The other 37% are the republicans…

 

[Visions]

Will wait to see more information/reports on this... but if accurate this is hugely important for Ukraine and incredibly embarrassing for Russia;

For a country with no navy, this has been quite the feat.

Though the vatniks amongst us will advise us its all going to plan, that it was a feint or goodwill gesture, or some other bullshit.

 

[Chadwiko]

For a country with no navy, this has been quite the feat.

Though the vatniks amongst us will advise us its all going to plan, that it was a feint or goodwill gesture, or some other bullshit.

You're spot on. Here's what the North board's favourite Putin fan said in response to this news earlier today;

 

[barreness]

If things stay as they are Putin won't be able to maintain the Ukraine invasion by the end of next year.

Ukraine won't last out this year, Zelensky has signalised as much

 

[Chief]

Ukraine won't last out this year, Zelensky has signalised as much

Link?

 

[Chief]

There are things that are avoidable like this war, Ukraine should have remained a Russian vassal

Come off it.

He has no claim over Ukraine but wanted to roll in and take it anyway.

Ukraine is getting some real firepower.

Maybe to avoid the killing Russia should become a Ukrainian vassal.

 

[Visions]

Ukraine won't last out this year, Zelensky has signalised as much

So why is still allowing his soldiers to fight if he's sure it all ends for them this year?

 

[Frank Grimes]

That won't do it. European nations by themselves are ramping up enough support evrn without Trump.

And if by some miracle does win it's not like he will suddenly be able to turn off all aid.

Ukraine is set for the next 5 years.

Russia though is at risk of losing its sovereignty. Could realistically dissolve. Russia empires tend to go boom after failed wars.

I hope you are right, but I'm not optimistic. Before when the aid to Ukraine was behind disputed in Congress, Russia was making gains albiat with great losses and minor the gains somewhat minor.

 

[Zidane98]

Ukraine won't last out this year, Zelensky has signalised as much

I heard they were only going to last 3 days.

Your tune has changed.

 

[Zidane98]

Link?

Rt.com
Tass.ru
Award winning and totally independent The Grayzone
Global research.ca.cooker

 

[Chadwiko]

I heard they were only going to last 3 days.

Your tune has changed.

Remember when the Vatniks said the war would be over in two weeks, and Kyiv would fall?

Ahhhh simpler times.

 

[leon123]

Is this about running the population numbers against Russia to see if they literally have the people power to achieve their aims? All a bit over my head but Russia has definitely been extremely keen on getting the population numbers up, with various approaches to increase birth rates - pleading for larger families, crackdown on abortion options, even a very robust version of our baby bonus 15 or so years ago too.

Putin is once again telling Russians to have more babies, and this time he's saying ethnic survival is at stake

Some 150,000 to 190,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded in the war against Ukraine. Another million Russians have fled their homeland.

www.businessinsider.com

Putin is urging women to have as many as 8 children after so many Russians died in his war with Ukraine

Russia's birth rates have been falling for decades, and the war in Ukraine has made it worse.

www.businessinsider.com

Russian authorities crack down on abortion access amid demographic crisis

Authorities in Russia are aiming to limit abortion access in an effort to boost population growth.

www.bbc.com

yes, but one must look at age profile, lot of older people, not great at producing babies. high number of smarter breeding aged people have also left russia

 

[leon123]

Less people less pollution, we're well beyond the carrying capacity.

not really true, advancing economies from low status to greater consumption per capita has the biggest impact

 

[GhostofJimJess]

putin desperately needs trump and vance in the WH

Will a Trump/Vance government possibly start re-arming Russia?

 

[Mobbs]

Hey Visions hell may have frozen over. There's reports that a tiny vector of attack on Vuhledar from the RF may actually have slightly held. I'll try to find more but it's probably something anyone can google.

 

[Mobbs]

Again sorry for lack of links but I hope to be more able to post properly as I get over an illness.

1. There was a fire at a Howitzer factory in Ekaterinburg which probably damaged production or operation but there's scarce info about it - dunno what kind of fire or how it was caused, dunno what damage if any, and if military resources were affected. General concensus is that it was unlikely to be a drone attack as its so far inboard and nature of the damage isn't really explosion-based necessarily. Sabotage possible but again no evidence at all. Leaning towards just an industrial accident.

2. The big attack on Donislav bay in Crimea seems to have involved numerous drone boats plus airborne drones was large scale but goal is not known. RF claim all were neutralised - though it seems a patrol boat might have been hit. Personal feels is its a bit of a show of "don't fall asleep Russia" . The bay is enclosed and should be safe from drone boats if not from UAVs which is why I have those feels.

3. Telegraph wrongly reported Chasiv Yar was occupied. They mispoke - a small satellite edge of the town across the river which was 50/50 for ages might be occupied but the town on the hill is as yet not reached.

4. An attack across the border north of Sumy by RF into Ukraine was nerfed instantly. Vovchansk is vaguely moving Ukraine's direction but not at any speed.

5. RF continues to nerf bandwidth to Youtube from within Russia as they prepare to publish analog services for their country. Youtube had blocked many propaganda channels couple years back but hadn't deleted the content. Now Youtube is prepping to actually delete the content and RF are appealing to get that content back. (this is from old stories and my attempt to paraphrase might be porous on accuracy and detail)

 

[jatz14]

Yes there are hierarchies

For instance Australia is a vassal state of America, Fiji is a vassal state of Australia

Russia being a vassal state of China? to a degree, China clearly the economic powerhouse and building up their arms to suit, give it 10 years

So, you see countries with common interests as being vassals, just in order of relative strength?

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[wannabejack]

After Ukraine becomes a vassal state of russia the next logical step would be to introduce a feudal system.
Bring back the good old days of serfdom.

 

[Cap]

Wonder what is burning

 

[jatz14]

Less people less pollution, we're well beyond the carrying capacity.

By overshooting we lower carrying capacity for the future, You can have 8 billion people just not all at once

The world can easily support 8 billion people. Just not if several million of them have their own personal super yachts and private jets.

Having consumption per person is simpler, easier, faster and more affordable than 50% depopulation.

We could of course have all countries get their own Putin. The ensuing conflict might be quite depopulating, but also environmentally damaging and costly.

 

[Zidane98]

I think you are missing the step where the USSR/Russia murders all educated people and officers in a forest somewhere.

Then, to serfdom.

#SLM

Serf Lives Matter

 

[Seeds]

You don't think Co2 is a pollutant?

If you think we can tech our way out of excess CO2 then you don't understand thermodynamics.
Humans and the things we eat make up 97% of mammal biomass, the environment doesn't work with those kind of numbers for one species.

There's microplastics in your testicles and PFAS in every raindrop, we're cooked

why dont you think we can tech our way out of greenhouse gas emissions?

We already have the tech to replace all fossil fuels in energy consumption. Its already here. We just need to adopt it. And it will be done even if we have zero care about the environment because it will be cheaper to do so.

Livestock emissions is more difficult. But with looming developments of cell based meat (or fake meat) just around the corner then we will highly likely be able to reduce our needs for livestock. Plus a credible reforestation program can offset the remaining emissions from livestock and industrial processes in any case.

Depopulation would actually make climate change worse because the only way to stop temperatures rising is to get net greenhouse gas emissions to zero. Reducing them 50 percent through a thanos type population cull does not stop temperatures rising. But it would stop the pursuit of clean technology due to the political upheaval such an event would result in. The only solution to stopping temperature rises is through clean tech adoption or a 100 percent wipe out of humans. Im assuming you would prefer we adopt the tech approach and not complete human extinction?

 

[Mobbs]

Wonder what is burning

This is extensive bit of damage.

 

[Dirty Bird]

I think you are missing the step where the USSR/Russia murders all educated people and officers in a forest somewhere.

Then, to serfdom.

There's no educated people left to kill. They've already escaped the country to avoid conscription.