Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[jatz14]

Exactly. This is why NATO and its puppet Zelensky goaded Russia into this war. Their aim was to bleed Russia white by organizing a war of attrition (US will fight to every last Ukrainian) and at the same time apply economic and financial sanctions to Russia that they believed would bring Russia's economy crashing to its knees.

It didn't happen, due to the fact that Russia was able to find economic resources from countries opposed to the US/NATO war drive (because the war drive also targets them, ie China mainly, also Iran and other countries attempting to balance between Russia and US, like Turkey)

But Russia's economy, contrary to their expectations, did not collapse, and now the Ukrainian military is on life support, totally dependent on continuing infusions of gigantic military packages from US and NATO.

Zelansky is now attending the UN, and is going to negotiate with US and NATO governments for permission to use their deep range missiles to target Moscow and other sites deep inside Russian territory, thereby threatening to instigate a nuclear response from Russia.

In the end, assuming that the use by the Ukrainian army of NATO long range missiles does not provoke a nuclear response from Russia, Ukraine will be unable to continue this war because it is running out of cannon fodder.

The only response then will be for NATO troops to step in, which would mean war between two nuclear armed states.

This is moronic, even by your fine standards.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Great that you posted this Johnny.
Putin just made this staement, under pressure from Russian generals who are worried that due to Russia's restraint thus far, NATO is starting to think they can go as far as they like.

NATO is braindead, to use Macron's words. As is Biden.

They just think Russia is a bear that they can continually prod without any repercussions.

The only problem for me is, they are not just risking their own worthless skins, they are risking all of humanity's as well.

I think Putin must be the one who's braindead to think that the West would let him get away with his illegal invasion of Ukraine.
Now if Putin had a brain he would withdraw from his illegal of Ukraine, but he hasn't so he wont.
Its called little man syndrome and Putin being a very little man is stature and intelligence is a perfect example of one.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Exactly. This is why NATO and its puppet Zelensky goaded Russia into this war. Their aim was to bleed Russia white by organizing a war of attrition (US will fight to every last Ukrainian) and at the same time apply economic and financial sanctions to Russia that they believed would bring Russia's economy crashing to its knees.

It didn't happen, due to the fact that Russia was able to find economic resources from countries opposed to the US/NATO war drive (because the war drive also targets them, ie China mainly, also Iran and other countries attempting to balance between Russia and US, like Turkey)

But Russia's economy, contrary to their expectations, did not collapse, and now the Ukrainian military is on life support, totally dependent on continuing infusions of gigantic military packages from US and NATO.

Zelansky is now attending the UN, and is going to negotiate with US and NATO governments for permission to use their deep range missiles to target Moscow and other sites deep inside Russian territory, thereby threatening to instigate a nuclear response from Russia.

In the end, assuming that the use by the Ukrainian army of NATO long range missiles does not provoke a nuclear response from Russia, Ukraine will be unable to continue this war because it is running out of cannon fodder.

The only response then will be for NATO troops to step in, which would mean war between two nuclear armed states.

Your defence of Putin is misguided, but then again I'm not surprised.
Now Putin is getting desperate for troops in he's illegal invasion of Ukraine so can you and other Russian apologists help ? Your leader need you

 

[Mobbs]

This is kinda just facts though right, be pro russian/anti EU(nato, US or whatever) and you don't get shells raining down

Absolutely its kindah factual. "Vote for us or we'll get Russia to slaughter you all." Stated almost literally out loud by the puppet regime.

 

[Mobbs]

Exactly. This is why NATO and its puppet Zelensky goaded Russia into this war. Their aim was to bleed Russia white by organizing a war of attrition (US will fight to every last Ukrainian) and at the same time apply economic and financial sanctions to Russia that they believed would bring Russia's economy crashing to its knees.

It didn't happen, due to the fact that Russia was able to find economic resources from countries opposed to the US/NATO war drive (because the war drive also targets them, ie China mainly, also Iran and other countries attempting to balance between Russia and US, like Turkey)

But Russia's economy, contrary to their expectations, did not collapse, and now the Ukrainian military is on life support, totally dependent on continuing infusions of gigantic military packages from US and NATO.

Zelansky is now attending the UN, and is going to negotiate with US and NATO governments for permission to use their deep range missiles to target Moscow and other sites deep inside Russian territory, thereby threatening to instigate a nuclear response from Russia.

In the end, assuming that the use by the Ukrainian army of NATO long range missiles does not provoke a nuclear response from Russia, Ukraine will be unable to continue this war because it is running out of cannon fodder.

The only response then will be for NATO troops to step in, which would mean war between two nuclear armed states.

 

[Mobbs]

These are the actual tangible nuclear threats. This and loading a cooling tower with tyres and setting them alight.

According to Energoatom, on the night of September 25, a Russian drone flew at a critically low altitude near the Rivne Nuclear Power Plant, continuing the threat to Ukraine's nuclear safety.

Energoatom has reported these incidents to relevant authorities, emphasizing the importance of adhering to nuclear and radiation safety principles.

[NOEL Reports TG]

 

[RonSon]

Those are kinda the options for Ukrainians(or flee if they don't catch you on the border), personally I'd prefer to go on about my little existence

How long do you think Ukrainians would be able to go about their little thing if Putin is appeased? How long before Russia re-arms and comes again?

 

[Frank Grimes]

I do wonder how successful a Russian counter offensive would be in the Kursk region? Russia has made incremental gains in their offensive in Ukraine be deploying meat waves and leveling cities/towns so there is nowhere for the Ukranian soldiers to take cover.

While they have no issue in levelling the Ukranian cities/towns, the question remains if they are just as willing to level their own town/cities in the counter offensive.

 

[Mobbs]

I do wonder how successful a Russian counter offensive would be in the Kursk region? Russia has made incremental gains in their offensive in Ukraine be deploying meat waves and leveling cities/towns so there is nowhere for the Ukranian soldiers to take cover.

While they have no issue in levelling the Ukranian cities/towns, the question remains if they are just as willing to level their own town/cities in the counter offensive.

Their propaganda media says that they should. The RF itself mightn't agree.

On SM-A146P using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crankyhawk]

Those are kinda the options for Ukrainians(or flee if they don't catch you on the border), personally I'd prefer to go on about my little existence

yes. it does appear that many would rather die and kill as many of the invading vermin as well.

Oh wait, dehumanising invaders

**** that.

 

[tricknologist]

Is Putin bluffing about nukes? If he is, then you continue supporting Ukraine because he's posturing. If he isn't, then you continue supporting Ukraine anyway because you can't allow fascists/authoritarians to use nukes as blackmail. I firmly believe that he's bluffing, but either way it doesn't make a difference to what we should do. Appeasement or capitulation signals that fascist/authoritarian powers can do whatever they like provided they can threaten nuclear escalation. It's ultimately a very simple situation, especially because Ukraine wants to resist Russia and Russia can't win the escalation ladder against the US and NATO.

 

[IlovethePies]

These are the actual tangible nuclear threats. This and loading a cooling tower with tyres and setting them alight.

According to Energoatom, on the night of September 25, a Russian drone flew at a critically low altitude near the Rivne Nuclear Power Plant, continuing the threat to Ukraine's nuclear safety.

Energoatom has reported these incidents to relevant authorities, emphasizing the importance of adhering to nuclear and radiation safety principles.

[NOEL Reports TG]

Yes..that's why NATO and US policy since 2014 in radically arming, training the Ukrainian military, bombarding the ethnically Russian population in Ukraine's Donbass region, sabotaging any attempt by Zelensky to negotiate with Russia, ...was insane.

 

[IlovethePies]

Is Putin bluffing about nukes? If he is, then you continue supporting Ukraine because he's posturing. If he isn't, then you continue supporting Ukraine anyway because you can't allow fascists/authoritarians to use nukes as blackmail. I firmly believe that he's bluffing, but either way it doesn't make a difference to what we should do. Appeasement or capitulation signals that fascist/authoritarian powers can do whatever they like provided they can threaten nuclear escalation. It's ultimately a very simple situation, especially because Ukraine wants to resist Russia and Russia can't win the escalation ladder against the US and NATO.

...dr Strangelove, I presume?

 

[IlovethePies]

Looks like US intelligence agencies are now themselves getting cold feet about the concept of giving Zelensky permission to use long range missiles against Russia. From NY Times:

U.S. Intelligence Stresses Risks in Allowing Long-Range Strikes by Ukraine​

Intelligence agencies concluded that granting Ukraine’s request to use Western missiles against targets deep in Russia could prompt forceful retaliation while not fundamentally changing the course of the war.

U.S. Intelligence Stresses Risks in Allowing Long-Range Strikes by Ukraine https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/26/...es-by-ukraine.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

 

[Chief]

We're trusting the opinion of the capitalist pigs now?

 

[IlovethePies]

We're trusting the opinion of the capitalist pigs now?

Yes, sometimes the capitalist pigs do say something truthful.

The issue is rather to have the necessary capacity for indentifying lies from truth.