Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[IlovethePies]

US has a specific agreement to take anyone who fires nuclear weapons on Ukraine out with its own nukes.

The main reason being in this agreement US encouraged Ukraine to turn over its nuclear arsenal to Russia.

Well that means, if Russia decides to use nukes against Ukraine, it will also have to use nukes against USA as a prophylactic measure.

Not sure that the posters here have got a sane grip on reality.

 

[Zidane98]

Well that means, if Russia decides to use nukes against Ukraine, it will also have to use nukes against USA as a prophylactic measure.

Not sure that the posters here have got a sane grip on reality.

This is the exact reason why everyone who isn't a vatnik or a moron knows the hundreds of nuke threats that Adolf Putin makes are simply utter nonsense. There is no result in the Ukraine war that will result in the use of Russia firing a nuke. Putin is unable to fire one on his own accord..

 

[IlovethePies]

The campaign within the US media and political establishment calling for Ukraine to attack Russian cities with NATO weapons has been concentrated on the claim that Russia’s stated policy of using nuclear weapons to defend its territory is a bluff.

Those making this claim are lying to the public. They know that Putin is not bluffing.

As the article from the New York Times that I referenced earlier makes clear:

"US intelligence agencies believe that Russia is likely to retaliate with greater force against the United States and its coalition partners, possibly with lethal attacks, if they agree to give the Ukrainians permission to employ US, British and French-supplied long-range missiles for strikes deep inside Russia, US officials said.

The intelligence assessment describes a range of possible Russian responses to a decision to allow long-range strikes using US and European-supplied missiles,” including “potentially lethal attacks on US and European military bases.”

ie the intelligence agencies are warning the politicians that by embarking on the next insane stage of their plans to provoke Russia, Russia is likely to respons with "lethal attacks"" (suitably left unclear as to the precise nature of these).

As I have continually pointed out, the vast majority of posters here who regurgitate the claim that Putin is bluffing are simply articulating the lying propaganda of the capitalist media,and the political representatives of the capitalist ruling elite.
Far from "thinking for themselves", they are unquestioningly following the US/NATO propaganda machine into a catastophe of planetary proportions.

 

[Smeg Head]

This is the exact reason why everyone who isn't a vatnik or a moron knows the hundreds of nuke threats that Adolf Putin makes are simply utter nonsense. There is no result in the Ukraine war that will result in the use of Russia firing a nuke. Putin is unable to fire one on his own accord..

Our little proto fascists here also seem to forget how vulnerable to nuclear attack their fascist overlord is considering how much of 'russias' population is concentrated in a few cities.

 

[IlovethePies]

This is the exact reason why everyone who isn't a vatnik or a moron knows the hundreds of nuke threats that Adolf Putin makes are simply utter nonsense. There is no result in the Ukraine war that will result in the use of Russia firing a nuke. Putin is unable to fire one on his own accord..

By the same absurd logic, the US is also unable to fire a nuclear weapon.

Therefore, there is no need for Putin to worry about using the entire might of Russia's conventional military force (which he hasn't done yet) and totally crushing Ukrainian resistance.

 

[IlovethePies]

Our little proto fascists here also seem to forget how vulnerable to nuclear attack their fascist overlord is considering how much of 'russias' population is concentrated in a few cities.

...are you insane?
Which nation on the earth is not "vulnerable" to a nnuclear attack?

 

[Zidane98]

Our little proto fascists here also seem to forget how vulnerable to nuclear attack their fascist overlord is considering how much of 'russias' population is concentrated in a few cities.

Exactly.

There is also the fact that use of Russian nuclear weapons is only possible in two scenarios:

1) A nuclear attack on Russia. This isn't happening.

2) Russian state invaded and in danger of being overran by a hostile state. This also isn't happening.

Russia's nuclear weapons systems & doctrine are all publicly available.


Anyone who tries to say that give Russia what it wants because it might nuke Russia is absolutely pushing pro Russian propaganda. It is as simple as that - end of storey.

Putin will not fire a nuke at Ukraine - that's 100% clear.

 

[Zidane98]

By the same absurd logic, the US is also unable to fire a nuclear weapon.

Therefore, there is no need for Putin to worry about using the entire might of Russia's conventional military force (which he hasn't done yet) and totally crushing Ukrainian resistance.

Newsflash - Ukraine is being invaded by a modern day Hitler - not the US.

Ah, another threat here from you that Putin hasn't done his best yet in Ukraine. Now you're really showing your vatnik colours.

Hows your Black Sea fleet going Igor?

 

[IlovethePies]

Exactly.

There is also the fact that use of Russian nuclear weapons is only possible in two scenarios:

1) A nuclear attack on Russia. This isn't happening.

2) Russian state invaded and in danger of being overran by a hostile state. This also isn't happening.

Russia's nuclear weapons systems & doctrine are all publicly available.


Anyone who tries to say that give Russia what it wants because it might nuke Russia is absolutely pushing pro Russian propaganda. It is as simple as that - end of storey.

Putin will not fire a nuke at Ukraine - that's 100% clear.

I have never said "give Russia what it wants"

I have said repreatedly that both the Ukrainain and Russian governments, must be overthrown by the unficiation of Russian and Ukrainian workers, as part of a world socialist revolution.

That is the only way this war, and every other war, will be stopped.

 

[Zidane98]

...are you insane?
Which nation on the earth is not "vulnerable" to a nnuclear attack?

That's why nobody fires them. Congratulations you're finally getting it.

Certainly not pathetically coward dictators like Adolf Putin suffering from small man syndrome.

 

[Zidane98]

I have never said "give Russia what it wants"

I have said repreatedly that both the Ukrainain and Russian governments, must be overthrown by the unficiation of Russian and Ukrainian workers, as part of a world socialist revolution.

That is the only way this war, and every other war, will be stopped.

Sure. Let's ignore the fact that Ukranian people have voted to become a European nation living in a democracy. Ukrainians see themselves as being where Poland is now in 10-15 years - rid of Russian subjugating and living a much better life.

But let's go ahead and impose socialism because socialism really worked great for them last time......

 

[IlovethePies]

Newsflash - Ukraine is being invaded by a modern day Hitler - not the US.

Ah, another threat here from you that Putin hasn't done his best yet in Ukraine. Now you're really showing your vatnik colours.

Hows your Black Sea fleet going Igor?

Newsflash:

Russia invaded Ukraine because the modern day Hitler - US imperialism - is threatening to destroy the basis for the Putin regime and replace it with a set of multiple puppet regimes throughout the Russian Federation. This will represent, ultimately, an existential threat to the Putin regime and there is simply no one in the world who can guarantee that faced with such a threat, his regime will not resort to nuclear weapons.

Newsflash:

Zelensky is a puppet of US\NATO imperialism.

Newsflash: so is Netanyahu

Newsflash: quoting US\NATO propaganda and using terms of abuse with racist overtones does not imply any particular talent except that of parroting this propaganda and attempting to intimidate those who disagree with it.

 

[IlovethePies]

Newsflash - Ukraine is being invaded by a modern day Hitler - not the US.

Ah, another threat here from you that Putin hasn't done his best yet in Ukraine. Now you're really showing your vatnik colours.

Hows your Black Sea fleet going Igor?

The days of MAD are now obsolete.

The imperialists are now in the process of normalising nuclear war.

When, in the past, would the US have dared to authorise hitting territory deep inside Russia with ballistic missiles ? They wouldn't have, because at that stage in history, they thought it would mean "Mutually Assured Destructin".

Now the risk of provoking nuclear war is just a "normal part of life" that we should all accept??

 

[Zidane98]

The days of MAD are now obsolete.

The imperialists are now in the process of normalising nuclear war.

When, in the past, would the US have dared to authorise hitting territory deep inside Russia with ballistic missiles ? They wouldn't have, because at that stage in history, they thought it would mean "Mutually Assured Destructin".

Now the risk of provoking nuclear war is just a "normal part of life" that we should all accept??

Nobody buys bs nuclear war threats Igor, your ruse is up.

Ukraine fires on Russia, not the US. Another nonsense claim. Ukraine isn't declaring war on Iran & Nth Korea because they are supplying ballistic missiles, attack drones & ammo. You are showing your colours by not mentioning this but having a problem with the US doing the same.

There is no result in the Ukraine war that sees any nukes being used or even a risk of use. That is simple cold hard facts outlined in your countries nuclear doctrine.

 

[IlovethePies]

That's fine, just keep parroting the lies of European and US politicians.

I will keep striving to alert as many as possible to the huge dangers that confront humanity at the moment.

 

[Cap]

That's fine, just keep parroting the lies of European and US politicians.

I will keep striving to alert as many as possible to the huge dangers that confront humanity at the moment.

Thanks Igor.

honestly, you are an embarrassment to country

 

[IlovethePies]

Thanks Igor.

honestly, you are an embarrassment to country

That's ok, Las Vegas dude. Keep following with your eyes closed.

 

[Zidane98]

That's fine, just keep parroting the lies of European and US politicians.

I will keep striving to alert as many as possible to the huge dangers that confront humanity at the moment.

What lies are they Igor?

 

[IlovethePies]

Exactly.

There is also the fact that use of Russian nuclear weapons is only possible in two scenarios:

1) A nuclear attack on Russia. This isn't happening.

2) Russian state invaded and in danger of being overran by a hostile state. This also isn't happening.

Russia's nuclear weapons systems & doctrine are all publicly available.


Anyone who tries to say that give Russia what it wants because it might nuke Russia is absolutely pushing pro Russian propaganda. It is as simple as that - end of storey.

Putin will not fire a nuke at Ukraine - that's 100% clear.

Keep up to date.
Putin just recently modified that doctrine.

 

[Zidane98]

Keep up to date.
Putin just recently modified that doctrine.

What are the updates Igor?

 

[IlovethePies]

What are the updates Igor?

You find out, NAFO.

 

[Zidane98]

You find out, NAFO.

You claimed they changed.


Now back up your claim.

 

[IlovethePies]

What lies are they Igor?

NAFO parrots are incapable of identifying reality from lies. That is why they keep repeating lies.

 

[Cap]

That's ok, Las Vegas dude. Keep following with your eyes closed.

the lights are on, but nobody is home.

You are the perfect Kremlin puppet.

 

[IlovethePies]

the lights are on, but nobody is home.

yeah, I can see that you are suffering from a definite lack of mental activity