List Mgmt. Welcome Harley Reid (Pick 1, 2023 National Draft)

[eaglevision]

 

[eaglevision]

You can't use the Daicos comp to defend Simpson's plan for the best young Mid Forward in the country to spend time on half back. Fly needed the ball in Daicos's hand because of his elite leg, and it helped him break the tag. And Nic isn't an inside bull like Harley who can win his his own ball in congestion and then burst and create.

We've got Yeo, Duggan, Cole, Jones, Hough, Hunt, and if absolutely necessary Witherden to play the small defender role. He should be moulded exactly as Cousins development was. Splitting time as a Half Forward and in the middle while he builds his tank. He'll kick 30 goals this year if left to roam the forward half, without having to man up on someone on half back.

This is a good post, very valid points in there and long term Harley will be a mid/fwd split I have no doubt. As I’ve previously posted I think the issue is Hewett’s fitness off a limited preseason meaning he’s going to need to start the season forward with limited time in the midfield. Provided Hewett stays on the park he’ll play more midfield minutes as the season wears on giving the team the opportunity to play Harley up the ground. He’ll likely end up one out in the goal square on an undersized opponent or as you say capable of that damaging burst off a flank to put someone into space, hit a target or have a ping from 50 himself. The way I see it is that Hewett’s fitness is crucial for this to occur and in addition to the ball likely spending more time in the D50 than F50 this year, I can see why the club has likely opted to start Harley HBF/MID.

 

[Phas]

You can't use the Daicos comp to defend Simpson's plan for the best young Mid Forward in the country to spend time on half back. Fly needed the ball in Daicos's hand because of his elite leg, and it helped him break the tag. And Nic isn't an inside bull like Harley who can win his his own ball in congestion and then burst and create.

We've got Yeo, Duggan, Cole, Jones, Hough, Hunt, and if absolutely necessary Witherden to play the small defender role. He should be moulded exactly as Cousins development was. Splitting time as a Half Forward and in the middle while he builds his tank. He'll kick 30 goals this year if left to roam the forward half, without having to man up on someone on half back.

I wouldn't use the Naicos comp, I'd use the Sheezel comp.

Explosive, strong, good above the head, strong boot, creative.

Naicos was just a chip chasing seagull in his first year.

 

[random260]

You can't use the Daicos comp to defend Simpson's plan for the best young Mid Forward in the country to spend time on half back. Fly needed the ball in Daicos's hand because of his elite leg, and it helped him break the tag. And Nic isn't an inside bull like Harley who can win his his own ball in congestion and then burst and create.

We've got Yeo, Duggan, Cole, Jones, Hough, Hunt, and if absolutely necessary Witherden to play the small defender role. He should be moulded exactly as Cousins development was. Splitting time as a Half Forward and in the middle while he builds his tank. He'll kick 30 goals this year if left to roam the forward half, without having to man up on someone on half back.

Absolutely NOT HFF. This position I'll rage. It's death row. Reid at HFF will trigger me to no ends.

If you want to know what HFF Reid looks like look at JHF. Averages 15 possesions. At HFF he will get 15 possesions and all his impact will be low impact chips to FP. What a waste.

The HFF position requires gut runners and that's not Harley Reid position. The idea he can model Ben Cousin a gut runner is laughable.

He will kick 30 goals as a forward pocket NOT HFF

 

[DanWCE]

This is a good post, very valid points in there and long term Harley will be a mid/fwd split I have no doubt. As I’ve previously posted I think the issue is Hewett’s fitness off a limited preseason meaning he’s going to need to start the season forward with limited time in the midfield. Provided Hewett stays on the park he’ll play more midfield minutes as the season wears on giving the team the opportunity to play Harley up the ground. He’ll likely end up one out in the goal square on an undersized opponent or as you say capable of that damaging burst off a flank to put someone into space, hit a target or have a ping from 50 himself. The way I see it is that Hewett’s fitness is crucial for this to occur and in addition to the ball likely spending more time in the D50 than F50 this year, I can see why the club has likely opted to start Harley HBF/MID.

Where Harley plays has so much to do with how our midfield fires. Does Baz go on with his form from last season? Does Flynn gel with the mids and give us good looks from the centre bounce?

If we get beaten up in the midfield I expect Harley to play back so he can stay involved in the game. No point letting him starve on the forward flank.

If we consistently draw level on inside 50s this season I can see them making the switch. Whether that's linked to Hewetts fitness or not I'm unsure, but Id say it's universally accepted that Reid's future is a mid-fwd. The back flank stuff is just to develop him as much as we can, as fast as we can. No point honing his forward craft if we only get the ball up there 10 times a quarter and of those only 3-4 are genuinely good looks with over half of those aimed for Oscar Allen.

 

[random260]

The idea that HFF can easily score goals is unfounded. You are mixing it up. Forward pockets can easily score goals. The only time a HFF can score many goals is when they have elite endurance.

Look at Jamie Cripps

15

Jamie Cripps

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.9

5star

G

1.3

5star

D

10.3

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

G

0.4

3star

D

6.4

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.4

5star

or Waterman.

Even then those two are not consistent in their possesions and impact week in week out hence why HFF is death row.

All I know is HFF is a position Harley Reid should never ever play and will be least effective in. Pure developmental suicide. Deep forward (FP) absolutely fine. I'd put a bet he will score more goals as a full time mid then a full-time HFF

 

[EagleEgo]

Harley Reid's season averages for 2024 or he's a clearly a bust:

32.4 disposals
785 meters gained
3.6 goals
16.7 marks
9.3 tackles
6.1 hit outs
6.1 hit outs to advantage
3 brownlow votes per game

AA
Brownlow
Players MVP
Coaches MVP

And wins the Norm Smith for a team not in the grand final.

3.6 goal 23 matches will guarantee the Coleman Medal.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

If HFF is a position of death, how did Noah Long have such a strong first season?

 

[DanWCE]

If HFF is a position of death, how did Noah Long have such a strong first season?

Because he was pick 58 without any media eyes on him. It's a free hit, we've got a gem and we're all stoked we had a win at the draft. Long is clean and composed and fits in at the level.

If Reid churned out Longs stats this season we would be burning MRP to the ground.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I wouldn't use the Naicos comp, I'd use the Sheezel comp.

Explosive, strong, good above the head, strong boot, creative.

Naicos was just a chip chasing seagull in his first year.

To be fair, so was Sheezal.

Not to the disgusting level of "1-2 1-2, gimme gimme gimme mine mine mine" that N.Daicos is, but Sheezal rarely got any contested ball at all, just racked up a lot of (quality mind you) uncontested touches in defense and from kick ins.

Averaged 27 disposals, and less than 7 of them were contested. Hey it worked perfectly. Couldn't have asked for a nicer debut season really, just like Naicos.


My initial point was that i don't think Reid is anything like those two. Doesn't have the capacity to be that uncontested, particularly when endurance or gut runnign is supposedly not one of his strong suits. I'm all for letting him do the kick ins and giving him free touches to punt it 55m out of defense though.

I'm not against playing him in defense persay, it's true he'll probably only get 10-12 touches a game if played forward... i just don't think it'll work.

 

[Matera92]

I think at this point in time the only reasonable question to ask is how soon will he be compared to Leigh Matthews?

 

[squashface]

Glad to see we’ve already written him off as a shit forward.

May as well delist him now, no?

 

[Cuzz09]

I reckon Long will follow the Cousins development (on field, non druggo)

Start small fwd floating around then be like an Butters/Neale type

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Spooky17]

Long reminds me of a hybrid between Judd, Cousins and Kerr.

 

[KBLT]

Long reminds me of a hybrid between Judd, Cousins and Kerr.

Bit of LeCras and a few Materas in there, too.

 

[BeornJ]

Long reminds me of my 11 year old nephew that plays Auskick

 

[Dale Doback]

To be fair, so was Sheezal.

Not to the disgusting level of "1-2 1-2, gimme gimme gimme mine mine mine" that N.Daicos is, but Sheezal rarely got any contested ball at all, just racked up a lot of (quality mind you) uncontested touches in defense and from kick ins.

Averaged 27 disposals, and less than 7 of them were contested. Hey it worked perfectly. Couldn't have asked for a nicer debut season really, just like Naicos.


My initial point was that i don't think Reid is anything like those two. Doesn't have the capacity to be that uncontested, particularly when endurance or gut runnign is supposedly not one of his strong suits. I'm all for letting him do the kick ins and giving him free touches to punt it 55m out of defense though.

I'm not against playing him in defense persay, it's true he'll probably only get 10-12 touches a game if played forward... i just don't think it'll work.

I think you're right in that he isn't like either of them. They're both accumulators who mainly play outside. He's strong overhead for 185cm so maybe his comparison are blokes like Heeney or Toby Greene? Harley has at least that level of talent and it'd be a shame to see him not learning Allen's leading patterns etc this year.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Glad to see we’ve already written him off as a s**t forward.

May as well delist him now, no?

Firstly, yes we should.

I don't even know what side of the arguement i'm on anymore, but i will point out it's pretty natural to not want to put your shiny new toy up forward when the spuddy team he plays for gets pumped by an average losing margin of 65 points.

 

[The Gtrain]

You can't use the Daicos comp to defend Simpson's plan for the best young Mid Forward in the country to spend time on half back. Fly needed the ball in Daicos's hand because of his elite leg, and it helped him break the tag. And Nic isn't an inside bull like Harley who can win his his own ball in congestion and then burst and create.

We've got Yeo, Duggan, Cole, Jones, Hough, Hunt, and if absolutely necessary Witherden to play the small defender role. He should be moulded exactly as Cousins development was. Splitting time as a Half Forward and in the middle while he builds his tank. He'll kick 30 goals this year if left to roam the forward half, without having to man up on someone on half back.

When you're the worst team for clearance difference, scoring and almost every other stat in the comp, you don't want to rotate your best players at HFF, you run them off Half back, they can impact the centre clearance as it will more than likely end up at HB, the can push to the middle if its contested or ground ball, they can go deeper in defence for boundary/ball up and to HFF when nescessary (as long as they can get back after an I50). Depending on endurance you could have a 5-15 goal season as a hbf whilst still gaining metres. He would be wasted at HFF, different story if we're top 5 for clearances and scoring freely.

A good player will want the ball in their hands and find a way to do so, if he is playing off HFF, he will be burning much more energy with wasted sprint efforts and two way running back to his HFF as he will be at HB, so when the ball does actually go forward, he is spent which introduces kicking inefficies, inaccuracy and general clangers.

Dusty (drafted in 2010) as a comparison didnt start playing as a majority Mid/Fwd until 2017, his earlier career was predominantly as a Defensive Mid. whilst still kicking 10-20 goals, once moved fwd he kicks 30-37 goals. This also correlates well with Richmond win/loss record and their first modern day premiership (2017).

in my opionion I don't expect Harley to become a 30 goal forward mid until 2028/29.

 

[Dale Doback]

When you're the worst team for clearance difference, scoring and almost every other stat in the comp, you don't want to rotate your best players at HFF, you run them off Half back, they can impact the centre clearance as it will more than likely end up at HB, the can push to the middle if its contested or ground ball, they can go deeper in defence for boundary/ball up and to HFF when nescessary (as long as they can get back after an I50). Depending on endurance you could have a 5-15 goal season as a hbf whilst still gaining metres. He would be wasted at HFF, different story if we're top 5 for clearances and scoring freely.

A good player will want the ball in their hands and find a way to do so, if he is playing off HFF, he will be burning much more energy with wasted sprint efforts and two way running back to his HFF as he will be at HB, so when the ball does actually go forward, he is spent which introduces kicking inefficies, inaccuracy and general clangers.

Dusty (drafted in 2010) as a comparison didnt start playing as a majority Mid/Fwd until 2017, his earlier career was predominantly as a Defensive Mid. whilst still kicking 10-20 goals, once moved fwd he kicks 30-37 goals. This also correlates well with Richmond win/loss record and their first modern day premiership (2017).

in my opionion I don't expect Harley to become a 30 goal forward mid until 2028/29.

Hey mate we can agree to disagree. I think the best path forward for him is the way we played Hewitt this year. Let him play inside 50, even out of the square following Allen's leads, and then let him go into the middle for centre bounces. He's not going to have the endurance for the gut run between the arcs and I wouldn't expect him to at 18.

But I also don't want to see him caught out at half back and turned around trying to chase an experienced opposition half forward who knows he's got a rookie on him. He needs to be able to ease into the pace of the game, without having the pressure of accountability.

And yeah we might only get 40 to 45 inside 50s a game like last year but if he's forward he'll learn positioning, how to impact the contest and get hands on it.

 

[The Gtrain]

Hey mate we can agree to disagree. I think the best path forward for him is the way we played Hewitt this year. Let him play inside 50, even out of the square following Allen's leads, and then let him go into the middle for centre bounces. He's not going to have the endurance for the gut run between the arcs and I wouldn't expect him to at 18.

But I also don't want to see him caught out at half back and turned around trying to chase an experienced opposition half forward who knows he's got a rookie on him. He needs to be able to ease into the pace of the game, without having the pressure of accountability.

And yeah we might only get 40 to 45 inside 50s a game like last year but if he's forward he'll learn positioning, how to impact the contest and get hands on it.

Yeh of course mate, just adding my opinion.

 

[stallon]

But I also don't want to see him caught out at half back and turned around trying to chase an experienced opposition half forward who knows he's got a rookie on him. He needs to be able to ease into the pace of the game, without having the pressure of accountability.

If you watched Daicos and Sheezel in their first years, they played mostly free just looking for touches, very little actual defending.
If North can cover for Sheezel in their back 6 surely we can cover for Reid who is a much stronger player, so in theory should be better at defending.

 

[The Gtrain]

If you watched Daicos and Sheezel in their first years, they played mostly free just looking for touches, very little actual defending.
If North can cover for Sheezel in their back 6 surely we can cover for Reid who is a much stronger player, so in theory should be better at defending.

Could be a nice match up first game against port, Willie Rioli, maybe some JHF action or SPP

 

[Byron_Clanger]

I don't mind ol Harls starting his first season off half back for a couple reasons 1) He'll be getting his hands on the ball a lot since the ball will always be down that end and 2) Saving his body from needless inside mid punishment until his body fully develops.

Plus, I'm sure there are gonna be plenty of games where we're down by 40+ points in the final quarter..I'd throw him deep forward in those scenarios to see if he can jag a couple.

 

[Dark Sharks]

I've flipped.

Play him at fullback, watch him get leather poisoning from free kick ins.

 

[squashface]

We should hire him as list manager too