Welcome to Hawthorn - Tom Mitchell - 2018 Brownlow medalist

[The Chad and I]

Come on you think this was the first time the coaches told him? He kept doing the wrong thing time and time again and was called out for it, quoting he got Brownlow votes in x game despite getting a low game rating as a defense he was playing well, says whole lot about his ability to listen.

I don't have the context, obviously, just commenting on his POV and making a general observation about these things.

 

[onthemoney]

Enjoyed Buckley's commentary on this on SEN yesterday. He was talking about having to adjust his approach because the generation coming through feel shame much quicker. He said the Pies changed from having everyone's numbers on the board, to more private 1:1 convos.

I'd love to hear Sam's take on it and how he has had to adapt. I wonder if he misread Tom as being experienced and resilient enough to be the one made an example of for the younger group coming through? Just a hunch.

 

[cs61]

Enjoyed Buckley's commentary on this on SEN yesterday. He was talking about having to adjust his approach because the generation coming through feel shame much quicker. He said the Pies changed from having everyone's numbers on the board, to more private 1:1 convos.

I'd love to hear Sam's take on it and how he has had to adapt. I wonder if he misread Tom as being experienced and resilient enough to be the one made an example of for the younger group coming through? Just a hunch.

The biggest issue with the current generation is that people think we are able to make a judgement of the situation, culture, and incident based on a short edited clip of a podcast from one person's perspective.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Enjoyed Buckley's commentary on this on SEN yesterday. He was talking about having to adjust his approach because the generation coming through feel shame much quicker. He said the Pies changed from having everyone's numbers on the board, to more private 1:1 convos.

I'd love to hear Sam's take on it and how he has had to adapt. I wonder if he misread Tom as being experienced and resilient enough to be the one made an example of for the younger group coming through? Just a hunch.

More to the point, was it even Sam who made the example of Tom?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

More to the point, was it even Sam who made the example of Tom?

Pretty sure it was confirmed that it was a line meeting so would have been Harvey.

 

[barbster]

More to the point, was it even Sam who made the example of Tom?

TOM mentioned in the interview that the whole team was there.
They were rated by coaches 1-5 points on their game performance and he was rated the lowest in the team for the first two rounds of 2022. In both these rounds he was named in the bests and received Brownlow votes. So obviously one party got it wrong and it wasn’t TOM. And yes Sam would have been there, as it was mentioned the whole team was.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

TOM mentioned in the interview that the whole team was there.
They were rated by coaches 1-5 points on their game performance and he was rated the lowest in the team for the first two rounds of 2022. In both these rounds he was named in the bests and received Brownlow votes. So obviously one party got it wrong and it wasn’t TOM. And yes Sam would have been there, as it was mentioned the whole team was.

Mitchell didn't get a single coaches vote in the first two rounds of last year so not sure what you're referring to. This also means the opposition coach didn't rate him but the umpires did. This disparity isn't uncommon as seen this year with Lachie Neale polling 3 votes bizarrely in some games where he got zero coaches votes.

If the coaches have given Mitchell an assignment and he has continually ignored it while racking up the stats - then sure the umpires looking at the stats sheet might go 'wow Mitchell had 30 touches and 6 clearances!' while the coaches will likely dwell on him ignoring their instructions.

Tom did some good things at our club but it is weird that there are Hawthorn posters who are still martyring themselves for him here. He is no longer a Hawks player and is throwing rocks at the club unnecessarily.

 

[Braidz]

Mitchell didn't get a single coaches vote in the first two rounds of last year so not sure what you're referring to. This also means the opposition coach didn't rate him but the umpires did. This disparity isn't uncommon as seen this year with Lachie Neale polling 3 votes bizarrely in some games where he got zero coaches votes.

If the coaches have given Mitchell an assignment and he has continually ignored it while racking up the stats - then sure the umpires looking at the stats sheet might go 'wow Mitchell had 30 touches and 6 clearances!' while the coaches will likely dwell on him ignoring their instructions.

Tom did some good things at our club but it is weird that there are Hawthorn posters who are still martyring themselves for him here. He is no longer a Hawks player and is throwing rocks at the club unnecessarily.

He had similar things to say when he left Sydney if I remember correctly? Wasn’t a fan of horse?

 

[Ned Ryerson]

He had similar things to say when he left Sydney if I remember correctly? Wasn’t a fan of horse?

Openly admitted that he ignored coaches directions on grand final day this year also. If the Lions hadn't given away a stupid 50m penalty and end up winning that game something tells me he wouldn't be gloating about that one.

 

[cs61]

Hodgie wasnt short of giving Mitchell a clip mid game as well for being the in the wrong position several times.

 

[barbster]

Openly admitted that he ignored coaches directions on grand final day this year also. If the Lions hadn't given away a stupid 50m penalty and end up winning that game something tells me he wouldn't be gloating about that one.

Yep, worst player in the GF

 

[KermitJagger]

Hodgie wasnt short of giving Mitchell a clip mid game as well for being the in the wrong position several times.

I remember that quite vividly from the mic'd up games

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Yep, worst player in the GF

Are you incapable of nuance? Just don't engage if you are going to be wilfully ignorant.

 

[barbster]

Hodgie wasnt short of giving Mitchell a clip mid game as well for being the in the wrong position several times.

Well isn’t that expected of a senior and former captain of the club? Don’t think Mitchell would have been the only player.
And then Titch went on to win the B&F at the end of the year and a Brownlow the following year, so he must have been doing something right.

 

[AussieToffee15]

One of the most unlikeable players we have had on our list in the last 10-15 years. I wasn't a fan of his character or playing style when he wore our colours, and that assessment has only grown since he left.

He is a selfish footballer, who cannot understand nor be grateful that we allowed him to leave to win a flag (while paying half his wage). Furthermore, he has'nt been able to recognise that he was a drag on our midfield - evident by the fact that we were the worst midfield in the comp in 2022 and are now one of the better ones without him.

The Will Day response to feedback just shows that the Club treats all as equals, but if you're not willing to improve or change, then you leave. That is what an elite, premiership winning culture looks like.

Good riddance and close thread.

 

[Mercy Seat]

One of the most unlikeable players we have had on our list in the last 10-15 years. I wasn't a fan of his character or playing style when he wore our colours, and that assessment has only grown since he left.

He is a selfish footballer, who cannot understand nor be grateful that we allowed him to leave to win a flag (while paying half his wage). Furthermore, he has'nt been able to recognise that he was a drag on our midfield - evident by the fact that we were the worst midfield in the comp in 2022 and are now one of the better ones without him.

The Will Day response to feedback just shows that the Club treats all as equals, but if you're not willing to improve or change, then you leave. That is what an elite, premiership winning culture looks like.

Good riddance and close thread.

That’s a shit take. The guy bled for the club after we promised him a pretty amazing vision to come play for us. 4 x PCMs and a brownlow, he was a wonderful player and one of the few highlights through a tough era. He literally said he still loves the club and has talked glowingly of us all year.

Both things can be true at the same time. He didn’t suit our new coach and game plan and was a hard player to give feedback and criticism to, and he felt humiliated and confused by the means of feedback. I think way more is being made of this than needs to.

 

[lethalselbow]

Does it really matter if Tom said one of the reasons he left Hawthorn? Reckon there's two sides to the story, but I'm always happy to hear more thoughts and inside news from players and clubs.

 

[barbster]

One of the most unlikeable players we have had on our list in the last 10-15 years. I wasn't a fan of his character or playing style when he wore our colours, and that assessment has only grown since he left.

He is a selfish footballer, who cannot understand nor be grateful that we allowed him to leave to win a flag (while paying half his wage). Furthermore, he has'nt been able to recognise that he was a drag on our midfield - evident by the fact that we were the worst midfield in the comp in 2022 and are now one of the better ones without him.

The Will Day response to feedback just shows that the Club treats all as equals, but if you're not willing to improve or change, then you leave. That is what an elite, premiership winning culture looks like.

Good riddance and close thread.

And yet the club made him vice captain.

 

[matey]

What a sook ….. just enjoy your premiership medal buddy and move on!

 

[Briar Gold]

Not the usual approach to divulge team meeting conversations while still playing, even at a different club.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

And yet the club made him vice captain.

Very weird that the majority of your input around here is glorifying a Collingwood player and the Shinbeggars coach.

 

[Hawkas1988]

That’s a s**t take. The guy bled for the club after we promised him a pretty amazing vision to come play for us. 4 x PCMs and a brownlow, he was a wonderful player and one of the few highlights through a tough era. He literally said he still loves the club and has talked glowingly of us all year.

Both things can be true at the same time. He didn’t suit our new coach and game plan and was a hard player to give feedback and criticism to, and he felt humiliated and confused by the means of feedback. I think way more is being made of this than needs to.

I don't agree with the poster you quoted, way too harsh of a take, however I have hardly seen Tom talk glowingly of us all year like you mention. I can barely remember one glowing thing he has said, all I have seen is constant subtle digs at Hawthorn and how he is finally truly happy now and all the comments about how he is happy to play for a big club etc.

I can understand Tom being frustrated with how things ended with Hawthorn but surely he moves on now. He has won a premiership, fulfilled a dream, good on him. Time to move on and stop the commentary about his old club.

 

[Birdofprey]

Openly admitted that he ignored coaches directions on grand final day this year also. If the Lions hadn't given away a stupid 50m penalty and end up winning that game something tells me he wouldn't be gloating about that one.

Seriously?! That is pretty arrogant to say the least. One could go so far as to call that attitude "unprofessional". Yet he doesn't seem to reflect upon why previous coaches were frustrated with him and decided to make an example of his unwillingness to do what is asked of him.

He will finish an amazingly decorated player: a Brownlow, Premiership medallion, and a hand full of PCMs. And good on him for a his 13 tackles in the GF!

 

[offtherails9]

Its not the criticism but being singled out (repeatedly) and focus just on one person in front of his peers, it undermines his standing as a teammate. Some people can take it. Not everybody is made like that.

Do that to me, especially without warning, and you lose my trust.
In private, you can pretty much say whatever you want to me.

Alex Ferguson understood this well.
When he wanted to get a message through to Nani for something he was doing wrong, and Fergie was angry, he'd yell at Rooney bc he knew it would motivate him or just be water off a duck's back, while Nani would hear the message and adjust accordingly, but he wouldn't be able to deal with a direct rocket.

People are just different.
As a coach, it's your job to navigate that.
Consistent principles, but accommodating differences in delivery.

Remember Dennis Rodman?!!

Exactly. So the coaches made an example of the #1 midfielder and guy that people probably look towards as someone they should emulate to show the rest of the group that his defensive efforts aren't good enough. Exactly.

As said in another thread, all you need to know about Tom's mindset is that he thought the criticism was unwarranted because he got Brownlow votes in that game. FMD.

 

[offtherails9]

Mitchell didn't get a single coaches vote in the first two rounds of last year so not sure what you're referring to. This also means the opposition coach didn't rate him but the umpires did. This disparity isn't uncommon as seen this year with Lachie Neale polling 3 votes bizarrely in some games where he got zero coaches votes.

If the coaches have given Mitchell an assignment and he has continually ignored it while racking up the stats - then sure the umpires looking at the stats sheet might go 'wow Mitchell had 30 touches and 6 clearances!' while the coaches will likely dwell on him ignoring their instructions.

Tom did some good things at our club but it is weird that there are Hawthorn posters who are still martyring themselves for him here. He is no longer a Hawks player and is throwing rocks at the club unnecessarily.

It's so crazy to me to suggest that the umpires noticing a guy a lot because he runs around like a headless chook, gets cheap one twos, and snaps it around his body forward and being given votes means that he played well but the coaches who are coaching the team with ideas of defensive structures and actions, running patterns etc would have no idea and were being unfair.