Welcome to Hawthorn - Tom Mitchell - 2018 Brownlow medalist

[Off The Couch]

 

[Dragz]

Great at getting the ball. Was never likeable player for some reason though.
Happy he’s been able to have success at Collingwood

 

[Harper_Hawk]

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Good response! Why doesn’t Tom Mitchell just shut up and enjoy his medal. The sooking prat.


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[OnTheRocks]

Congratulations Tom, brownlow medallist & current premiership player, c'est la vie.
This fred, bwahaha

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Good response! Why doesn’t Tom Mitchell just shut up and enjoy his medal. The sooking prat.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

That’s the thing - I don’t remember Chips sinking the boots into the Demons after we beat West Coast or McEvoy trolling the Saints when we beat Sydney. Just enjoy the bloody win.

 

[HedgeFund]

It's so crazy to me to suggest that the umpires noticing a guy a lot because he runs around like a headless chook, gets cheap one twos, and snaps it around his body forward and being given votes means that he played well but the coaches who are coaching the team with ideas of defensive structures and actions, running patterns etc would have no idea and were being unfair.

It’s almost as if the umpires set his KPIs and then review them whilst watching his tape with him and then award him the Brownlow votes.

 

[manB]

Horrible to see people supporting treatment, even though other side of the story is not known.

I hope you are not treated in same way at workplace or you are not treating your colleagues like this.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Horrible to see people supporting treatment, even though other side of the story is not known.

I hope you are not treated in same way at workplace or you are not treating your colleagues like this.

Footy clubs are not the private sector and it’s really silly to think they are parallel environments.

That said - I don’t know of many corporate workplaces that would let you continue in employment if you repeatedly ignored your boss’ requests. You’d be on a performance plan in no time.

 

[cryptor]

That’s the thing - I don’t remember Chips sinking the boots into the Demons after we beat West Coast or McEvoy trolling the Saints when we beat Sydney. Just enjoy the bloody win.

If I remember correctly I’m pretty sure McEvoy was quite upset and crying going down to the rooms after we beat the Saints the first time with him. He thought he was going to captain them one day.

 

[mcnulty]

I think it’s sad a recent Hawk feels this way. I think it’s sadder the club was prepared to throw their greatest ever coach under the bus.

Be better, Hawthorn.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I think it’s sad a recent Hawk feels this way. I think it’s sadder the club was prepared to throw their greatest ever coach under the bus.

Be better, Hawthorn.

When did we throw Kanga under the bus?

 

[Boot Studder]

Tom was lucky he wasn’t playing under Kenny Judge. Now, there was an interesting era for player feedback.

 

[barbster]

Very weird that the majority of your input around here is glorifying a Collingwood player and the Shinbeggars coach.

They are legends of our club and any decent supporter would acknowledge that. One arguably the best coach ever, who led us to 4 flags and the other a 4 x Club Champion and Brownlow medalist. Both would have loved to stayed on at the club, but were pushed out.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

They are legends of our club and any decent supporter would acknowledge that. One arguably the best coach ever, who led us to 4 flags and the other a 4 x Club Champion and Brownlow medalist. Both would have loved to stayed on at the club, but were pushed out.

So this makes them infallible? Sorry, both of them have thrown stones at our club of recent and can kindly get ****ed.

 

[toomanysquibs]

So this makes them infallible? Sorry, both of them have thrown stones at our club of recent and can kindly get ****ed.

People throwing stones after they've left smacks of hurt feelings and personal struggles. Getting kicked off a high horse is not easy for some personality types.

We knew Clarko was a nut when we had him. But he was our nut.

Now he's someone else's, and it's playing out the way it always was going to unless he left under perfect circumstances.

Not wworth bothering about. Good luck to both of them, I hope they can both be happier and move on like the club has now, and that the choices they've made don't wind up being a yolk around their necks down the line.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Great at getting the ball. Was never likeable player for some reason though.
Happy he’s been able to have success at Collingwood

I don't think so at all. Was hard not to like a guy who was willing to get smashed from pillar to post in our jumper.

The club has moved on though, and we all need to borrow a leaf from their book.

Besides, there's too much to like about the current group to bother with the white noise.

 

[StillAtLarge]

I don't think the club really needed to address Tom's little jibe. I was happy for him to win that flag and tbh am finding this thread a tad unedifying.

 

[theiaofseed]

They are legends of our club and any decent supporter would acknowledge that. One arguably the best coach ever, who led us to 4 flags and the other a 4 x Club Champion and Brownlow medalist. Both would have loved to stayed on at the club, but were pushed out.

So that excuses them from criticism that's how "Stand by Hird" was a thing. Peak parasocial mentality

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I don't think the club really needed to address Tom's little jibe. I was happy for him to win that flag and tbh am finding this thread a tad unedifying.

McCartney was asked about it and the club was attacked - the only unedifying person here is Tom Mitchell. Again he could have focussed on just winning a premiership on his podcast.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

So that excuses them for criticism that's how "Stand by Hird" was a thing. Peak parasocial mentality

This. Cults of personality aren’t remotely healthy.

 

[Alex_au]

I find it highly amusing that Collingwood fans were highly critical of Tom a few years ago when he was routinely getting 50 touches a game against their mob, only for them to point out that he wasn't hurting teams. Now that they have him, their entire tune has changed.

Seriously, all the best to him. Stoked to see that he was able to win a premiership. But did didn't really have to come out and say what he did. Sounds a tad precious if anything.

 

[2OLD 2SLOW]

Footy clubs are not the private sector and it’s really silly to think they are parallel environments.

That said - I don’t know of many corporate workplaces that would let you continue in employment if you repeatedly ignored your boss’ requests. You’d be on a performance plan in no time.

Footy clubs most certainly are a part of the private sector, my capitalist friend.
They are also a part of our common law system, including a system of Tort law, and that pesky Fair Work Act (2009).

It is always a sure sign of an argument devolving when people start trying to describe football clubs as being exceptional, and somehow outside of certain norms (and ergo, outside normal judgement).

I love the Hawks, but not enough to dismiss the rights and dignity of the people who actually work at Hawthorn. Nor enough to assume that any criticism of our club is BS. Football clubs are super competitive, win-oriented - very private sector - and I suspect it is easy for that drive (single-mindedness) to over-step the mark, into all manner of callous, sh*ty behaviour.

The great irony here is that the same people who are slating Tom Mitchell for being a sook, someone incapable of taking feedback, are so terribly sensitive (neigh hysterical) about Tom's feedback. If you actually listen to the whole podcast, it was pretty measured, mild - no real criticism of the Hawks feedback mechanisms in general, just a suggestion the club wanted him out (which we all know is true) and treated him differently/weirdly to get him to voluntarily leave (which may or may not be true).

 

[westhawk]

Not the usual approach to divulge team meeting conversations while still playing, even at a different club.

He is just wanting some attention to his rubbish podcast he does.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

no real criticism of the Hawks feedback mechanisms in general, just a suggestion the club wanted him out (which we all know is true) and treated him differently/weirdly to get him to voluntarily leave (which may or may not be true).

Yes and we all know the media listened to all of the nuanced conversation and ran with that story, didn't they? If Tom had an axe to grind about something then save it for the autobiography - he's not stupid by any stretch and he would have known exactly what opening his mouth like he did would have done to our club in the media.

I don't disagree with your overall points and I don't think footy clubs have carte blanche to step outside societal norms (i.e. Adelaide's demented pre-season camp in 2018 or coaches feeling they can intrude into the personal lives of players outside the four walls of the club). But when it comes down to individual performance I don't think it is unfair for players to be called out for not following instructions or not doing what is expected of them. If Tom has repeatedly not followed the instructions given to him then I don't think the club or its coaches are out of line to not award him coaches votes or to call him out in video reviews. We are also relying solely on Tom's view which I dare say won't be objective and I am positive other players were being called out as well. I have heard multiple players over many years talking about how they dreaded the video review of the game on Monday mornings. Clearly it's common place. This isn't a contravention of human rights or bullying or unfair treatment - it's demanding better performance. If players can't handle that then they are welcome to take a much lower paying role at any number of organisations that will coddle them rather than manage them.

 

[2OLD 2SLOW]

Yes and we all know the media listened to all of the nuanced conversation and ran with that story, didn't they? If Tom had an axe to grind about something then save it for the autobiography - he's not stupid by any stretch and he would have known exactly what opening his mouth like he did would have done to our club in the media.

Are we really that precious a bunch at Hawthorn?
Should players have to hold onto any criticism until after they retire? Or posthumously?

I don't see why Rob, Sam or anyone at the club should feel outraged or threatened by the critical bits of Tom's answers - which were specific to him, and didn't slate our feedback processes in general. I expect they didn't like hearing it, but you knw what? That's feedback.

Clearly, Tom felt targeted during the season in a way that was unlike anything he had experienced (and witnessed) before. Ie .. not just normal feedback. His interpretation is that the club was trying to push him out the door, and that they effectively made him persona non grata from the start of the year. His suggestion was that a clear conversation would have been better. I don't know whether he's right, but I wouldn't fall off my chair if he is.

The irony, in my mind, is that a clear conversation may have been accompanied by some stints in the reserves - a fairly common tactic when clubs are done with a player and want him to move on at season's end. And that is about the last thing any player wants.