What are some of the biggest pieces of revisionist history in the AFL?

[Back One Out]

I reckon you could make the same argument about Clarkson in 2013 - 2015.

Yeah, sure. It's the same with a lot of champion teams.

But don't forget Clarkson built that Hawthorn team. He was the architect. He had huge say in the recruitment of players and support staff. He been been there for 8,9,10 years. Wasn't like he signed on as coach for the 2013 season and won an instant 3peat.

Hodge and Mitchell were just like on-field coaches, but they were operating as an extension of Clarkson because they understood his tactics and structures inside out. They were carrying out his wishes, making sure everyone else was in the right spot and executing the gameplan, etc.

 

[bradfisher14]

Not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but Luke Hodge being underrated as a player.

This is probably more of a thing among my friends but I'm keen to see what the intelligentsia on here think.

A lot of people I've spoken to regard him as an upgraded version of Nick Maxwell

Nick Maxwell

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14.0

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3.0

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: solid role player but a great on field general. These people must either have short memories or they never really watched the game before 2016. Hodge was one of the best utilities of his generation in addition to being one of the greatest captains in the history of the game. He deserves way more respect than he gets. Maybe his punditry work makes people think less of him as a player.

 

[SizeMatters]

That the Lions would have won the 2004 Grand Final if they had a GABBA home preliminary final.

The lads got pumped. Too old, too slow and too many injuries. Writing was on the wall pretty much from the first bounce with the Lions choking in front of goal and being bullied by Port.

Whilst I’m not denying a home GABBA prelim would have had a positive impact on the Lions I don’t think it would have been the difference between a W and a L.

Though no one will ever know. It just seems a bridge too far.

 

[Demon13304]

That the 2021 Premiership doesn't count because it was a "covid cup" with shortened quarters and covid ridled players, and unfair advantages to Melbourne

This will come off as a bit salty, but I've been told constantly that its an asterisks flag and a lot of misinformation gets told about that year.

-Shortened quarters were a thing in 2020, not 2021. (Not that 2020 should be discredited for that either)
- Throughout the entire home and away season, teams were playing at their homegrounds and all that, it was only at finals time that the interstate hubs came back. (Again , not that that should discredit the Richmond's 2020 flag either)
-Players were heavily testing all the time, in fact I don't even think I can remember a mass exodus of players getting covid or even if any players got it at all. Some players did get Covid after the season had finished.
-Also, despite finishing on top of the ladder, Melbourne had to play all their home finals interstate, if anything that's harder and there's no way in hell you'd discount a non-vic team for winning the flag in the same manner (which they do for the most part)
- Doggies did travel around the country, but they also finished 5th. So really that one in Tassie was the only unfair one for them. They still got a 2 week break before the GF as well.

As for the fans enjoyment of it, that's another thing. A lot of Melbourne fans obviously didn't get to go so they might feel robbed of that.

But the flag is legitimate as it comes for the players, club and competition as a whole

 

[Cyclops]

The idea Malthouse pioneered the "forward press" gameplan is another case of revisionist history.
Ross Lyon had the Saints playing a forward press in 2009 to great success. The following year Malthouse and Collingwood implemented it to great success.

Riewoldt and Milne alone in the 50 isn't a forward press. Lyon evolved a very ugly form of the flood, which has existed in many boring forms for decades.

I first saw the flood when Hawthorn pantsed Essendon in about 1992. It was over by half time (memory says it was more than 10 goals, maybe 14?) so Sheedy had 16 men behind centre and jagged 2 lucky goals in the third quarter.

Malthouse's Pies manned up in the forward 50, 7 or 8 men if need be and beat the ugly Sydney flood regularly in the early 2000s. Ross Lyon was a different dog but it was the same ****.

 

[Sttew]

The GAS 14 goals “from the wing” is hands down the most exaggerated thing I’ve ever heard. Not only did he not kick ANY from the the wing (or even run in from there) most of them were set shots from 20-30m directly in front. I saw a couple of standard crumbs as well but the furthest shot he had was the last goal (around 50-55m almost directly in front) THAT WAS THE ONLY GOAL OUTSIDE 50.

Now before you say “hey this guy is just a salty Richmond troll I remember the game perfectly and GAS was a freak”. Here are all the goals, test your memory and you’ll see I’m not making it up….

I read your post without registering who the author was and I'm thinking to myself, hey this guy has to be a salty, Cats-obsessed Richmond troll.

... I was right!

Exactly who claimed GAS kicked 14 from the wing? I have never seen that posted, except by you. And you make out as if the 14 he did kick need to be discounted because they were "standard crumbs" or set shots from in front.

 

[BF Tiger]

That the Lions would have won the 2004 Grand Final if they had a GABBA home preliminary final.

The lads got pumped. Too old, too slow and too many injuries. Writing was on the wall pretty much from the first bounce with the Lions choking in front of goal and being bullied by Port.

Whilst I’m not denying a home GABBA prelim would have had a positive impact on the Lions I don’t think it would have been the difference between a W and a L.

Though no one will ever know. It just seems a bridge too far.

I don’t think too many think the flag was Brisbane’s if the PF had been played in Brisbane, but I think it’s a fair and common assumption that the game was over before the first bounce because of the cumulative impact of travel and scheduling. Probably shows in the result as well, with the Lions progressively fading after half-time.

 

[Muddiemoose]

That the 2021 Premiership doesn't count because it was a "covid cup" with shortened quarters and covid ridled players, and unfair advantages to Melbourne

This will come off as a bit salty, but I've been told constantly that its an asterisks flag and a lot of misinformation gets told about that year.

-Shortened quarters were a thing in 2020, not 2021. (Not that 2020 should be discredited for that either)
- Throughout the entire home and away season, teams were playing at their homegrounds and all that, it was only at finals time that the interstate hubs came back. (Again , not that that should discredit the Richmond's 2020 flag either)
-Players were heavily testing all the time, in fact I don't even think I can remember a mass exodus of players getting covid or even if any players got it at all. Some players did get Covid after the season had finished.
-Also, despite finishing on top of the ladder, Melbourne had to play all their home finals interstate, if anything that's harder and there's no way in hell you'd discount a non-vic team for winning the flag in the same manner (which they do for the most part)
- Doggies did travel around the country, but they also finished 5th. So really that one in Tassie was the only unfair one for them. They still got a 2 week break before the GF as well.

As for the fans enjoyment of it, that's another thing. A lot of Melbourne fans obviously didn't get to go so they might feel robbed of that.

But the flag is legitimate as it comes for the players, club and competition as a whole

Comes with the territory of winning a flag mate don’t sweat it

Whatever year, some nuff will try and belittle the achievement

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Dude.
The phrase "14 from the wing" means he was playing on the wing, not kicking them from there.

Don't worry, that guy is either a troll or doesn't know anything about football.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Can we get Cleansweep17 's thoughts on kicking goals from the wing in a separate thread. It's hilarious and deserves to be recorded for history. To ensure no future revisionism.

 

[maskmcgee]

I reckon you could make the same argument about Clarkson in 2013 - 2015.

No shit. Have you seen North's record under him?

 

[SC_Power]

That the Lions would have won the 2004 Grand Final if they had a GABBA home preliminary final.

The lads got pumped. Too old, too slow and too many injuries. Writing was on the wall pretty much from the first bounce with the Lions choking in front of goal and being bullied by Port.

Whilst I’m not denying a home GABBA prelim would have had a positive impact on the Lions I don’t think it would have been the difference between a W and a L.

Though no one will ever know. It just seems a bridge too far.

Port Adelaide choking in a couple of home finals really did rob us all of what would have been an iconic Brisbane v Port Adelaide GF set 2002-3-4.

 

[Captain_Bender]

That 1897 is the year when Premierships started to he counted for the VFL/AFL.

In reality, Premierships back until the 1870s used to be included in club's official tallies.

That was until some time in the 1930s/40s, when the historical revisionists came along and changed the start date to what it is today.

View attachment 2009275

Here's some real revisionist history, there was no official VFA premiership until 1888, those Geelong "flags" were newspaper decisions

 

[Bunk Moreland]

A couple for Essendon regarding coaches, though not big on the AFL stage.

For opposite reasons… I’ve heard plenty of people actually say the Matthew Knights

Matthew Knights

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was a good coach who was stiff to be sacked by Essendon.

Tbf it’s mostly Richmond supporters talking about a favourite son.

Knights was a terrible coach with zero tactical nous. His card was marked a very long way out at Essendon.

On the other side, Ben Rutten

Ben Rutten

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41

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13.4

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5.3

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1.3

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10.6

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6.2

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4.4

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3.6

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1.0

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. I know Essendon people who say he was a terrible coach. I certainly don’t think you can say that… we looked very good in 2021 in his first season, playing some of the best footy we’d played in many, many years. We recovered from a 1-4 start to play some great footy and make the finals.

We then had a poor start for 2022 and that was it for him… he started to be undermined in the boardroom by a few directors who thought they were going to supercharge the club by bringing in Clarkson (christ, imagine) and was gone. Sacked after one poor run of games, very harsh as a coach.

I think he showed a bit and he’s still only 41, would like to see him get another chance.

 

[basashi]

As I remember it:
Prior to ever playing a game, Fremantle management note that Albert Thurgood played for both Essendon and the original Fremantle. They pay for a small fireable cannon to be cast. It is called the Albert Thurgood Trophy. It features in the club magazine. Fremantle proposes to Essendon that a game be played every Anzac day between the two teams. The Albert Thurgood trophy will be the prize. It will be the league's high profile Anzac Day ceremony each year. Essendon considers the proposal. They like it. The call Collingwood. Essendon and Collingwood go ahead with concept.

New history:
It was Sheedy's idea.

 

[Partridge]

Here's some real revisionist history, there was no official VFA premiership until 1888, those Geelong "flags" were newspaper decisions

What is legitimately amazing is that it wasn't until 1894 that there was even a proper fixture with every team played the same amount of games.

For that reason alone, you can't take anything before that in a serious premiership count. I've always thought the same thing - 1897 is the starting point.

So for me, Geelong the club have won 17 premierships. But we have won 10 VFL/AFL premierships.

 

[Rich01]

A couple for Essendon regarding coaches, though not big on the AFL stage.

For opposite reasons… I’ve heard plenty of people actually say the Matthew Knights was a good coach who was stiff to be sacked by Essendon.

Tbf it’s mostly Richmond supporters talking about a favourite son.

Knights was a terrible coach with zero tactical nous. His card was marked a very long way out at Essendon.

On the other side, Ben Rutten. I know Essendon people who say he was a terrible coach. I certainly don’t think you can say that… we looked very good in 2021 in his first season, playing some of the best footy we’d played in many, many years. We recovered from a 1-4 start to play some great footy and make the finals.

We then had a poor start for 2022 and that was it for him… he started to be undermined in the boardroom by a few directors who thought they were going to supercharge the club by bringing in Clarkson (christ, imagine) and was gone. Sacked after one poor run of games, very harsh as a coach.

I think he showed a bit and he’s still only 41, would like to see him get another chance.

I dare say no coach in those two periods would have succeeded with all the white anting going on in the back rooms. When they eventually get their favourite son in, even when he’s in charge of one of the biggest drug scandals in AFL history they try to deflect the blame and get him to come back in and coach.

What a toxic and backwards culture.

Lucky their new coach doesn’t put up with any shit.
Probably the only one with enough character to call blokes like Sheedy out.

 

[thejester]

Probably the biggest one is that footy was “tougher” in the old days (60s, 70s, 80s).

It was way more violent, but nowhere near as tough.

Players used to routinely shit themselves and pull out in tough situations. They don’t these days because it gets highlighted and replayed 1000 times.

Most of the “big hits” were just assaults on guys who weren’t looking and couldn’t defend themselves.

Yeah when you go back and watch those games you realise why people spoke so approvingly of putting your head over the footy etc - players routinely didn't in a way that would be unthinkable now.

 

[sherb]

That North Melbourne's success in the 70s was because of the 10 year rule.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

That North Melbourne won their flags in the 70s because of the 10 year rule.

Not solely, but it was a decent part of it. It landed them Wade, Rantall and Davis who were all critical in 75.

It was part of an aggressive recruiting effort that won the flag - as well as those three they landed Crosswell, Blight and Cable as well as Barassi as coach.

 

[RookiePick]

Jeebus. This bloke is going to completely flip when he finds out about Matera in the '92 grannie.

 

[Attempted Moustache]

Then don’t say from the wing.

I don’t say Dusty kicks goals from the midfield.

Or Short from the backline.

So you’re downplaying a 14 goal game over the classification of where Gary lined up as opposed to where he kicked them from?

Really??

Remember when EVERY team was flooding in the mid 2000s? Literally everybody was moaning about the state of the game and wishing we were back in the late 90s.

That Richmond game, the one where they took a world record amount of marks by playing keepings off reminds me of football in the 2000s.

I still remember Terry Wallace turning up to a press conference spinning a basketball on his finger with a turd eating grin on his face after Sheeds quite rightly said he didn’t want to watch basketball crap like Richmond served up.

No offence to the Tigers but I wished every failure on Terry Wallace’s coaching from that moment on (and by gee was it delivered).

 

[Attempted Moustache]

That the Pies automatically win the 2007 Grand Final vs Port if they beat Geelong in that Preliminary Final.

The Pies pushed Geelong hard in the Prelim but it doesn’t mean they do a number on Port on GF day like the Cats did. Port had already beaten Collingwood at the MCG during the H&A that season and would’ve likely beaten us again. They had a much more seasoned and talented side than Collingwood at that point.

 

[BF Tiger]

That the Pies automatically win the 2007 Grand Final vs Port if they beat Geelong in that Preliminary Final.

The Pies pushed Geelong hard in the Prelim but it doesn’t mean they do a number on Port on GF day like the Cats did. Port had already beaten Collingwood at the MCG during the H&A that season and would’ve likely beaten us again. They had a much more seasoned and talented side than Collingwood at that point.

I’m not sure if anyone revises that history. Geelong were far and away the best team of 2007 and nothing needs revision (or AFAIK has been revised).

 

[Attempted Moustache]

I’m not sure if anyone revises that history. Geelong were far and away the best team of 2007 and nothing needs revision (or AFAIK has been revised).

Well duh!

The prevailing thought was if Collingwood had’ve got over Geelong in the prelim (it was a 5 point ball game with nothing in it all game) then the Pies would have only had to have turned up to beat the Port side in the GF like Geelong ended up doing. Clearly I think that wasn’t true as stated.

Geelong not being the best team in 2007 wasn’t even up for debate or relevant to my point.