Where are the Young Victorian players?

[mavs5]

l am getting really pissed at the Victorian selectors. Isnt there job to blood young players with the intention of having them play for Australia? And l mean Victorian born players.
Sure we have Finch, McDonald, Siddle & White in the team.
But l am sick and tired of getting players from interstate to play for Victoria. Sure they have been great players, such as Hussey, Rogers, Wright & Wade, but l want Victorian born players.
Is winning the only thing that matters? We have won that many trophies in the last 3/4 years, but it has not helped getting more players into the team. Look NSW, they haven't won a thing for 5/6 years but seem to have most of the players in all forms of the game.
l know it seems to be a bias towards Victorian players, but l am VICTORIAN and would love to see more Victorian born players in the test team.

Also, why do we keep playing older players, such as Wright, McGain & Rogers. Please blood young players.

Why isn't Jon Holland in the Victorian team. He is the future. McGain is past his best. Australia does not have a spinner in the test team. Holland would be a better bet as a spinner then Steve Smith (whom everyone is saying to play in the tests).
PLEASE PLAY HIM.

 

[Phone]

In Tasmania and New South Wales.




high 5 anyone?

 

[Slammin Sammy Says]

In Tasmania and New South Wales.




high 5 anyone?

Eiffel tower!!

McDonald is from Albury.

We got one back this year, a youngster from Mildura - Cleary.

I'm more interested in how the Vics are manging their over 30 pace bowlers.

Harwood & Nannes are only playing the one dayers
D Pattinson & Wright (who I thought had retired?/ is the bowling coach?) playing only the four dayers.

If young players are good enough they will get a game, you shouldn't get a game just because you are young you should have to earn it.

Having said that I disagree with the recruiting of Rogers.

22 yo Michael Hill is opening today. and 23 yo Aaron Finch is at No 3.

 

[western royboy]

l am getting really pissed at the Victorian selectors. Isnt there job to blood young players with the intention of having them play for Australia? And l mean Victorian born players.
Sure we have Finch, McDonald, Siddle & White in the team.
But l am sick and tired of getting players from interstate to play for Victoria. Sure they have been great players, such as Hussey, Rogers, Wright & Wade, but l want Victorian born players.
Is winning the only thing that matters? We have won that many trophies in the last 3/4 years, but it has not helped getting more players into the team. Look NSW, they haven't won a thing for 5/6 years but seem to have most of the players in all forms of the game.
l know it seems to be a bias towards Victorian players, but l am VICTORIAN and would love to see more Victorian born players in the test team.

Also, why do we keep playing older players, such as Wright, McGain & Rogers. Please blood young players.

Why isn't Jon Holland in the Victorian team. He is the future. McGain is past his best. Australia does not have a spinner in the test team. Holland would be a better bet as a spinner then Steve Smith (whom everyone is saying to play in the tests).
PLEASE PLAY HIM.

Good Post I'll give you my answer.

I have been fortunate to play in both Melbourne and Sydney comps. FWIW Sydney would be the strongest club comp in the world in my book. The mindset in NSW is all about promoting youth and finding the next Shield / Test player. Sure NSW is playing to win but in general Grade cricket has a lot more youth in it than Victoria. They have had some great journeymen like Dom Thornley, Grant Lambert and Greg Mail who are clearly too good for the Grade Comp but having had a few opportunities to play in the higher comp and having missed out they only get a game when the side needs some experience.

If I list the youngsters currently floating around the NSW side we have Hughes, Maddinson, Khawaja, Starc, Hazelwood, Smith, O'Keefe, Henriques, Warner. There are another 4-5 rookies not named here. That's a large part of the squad U/23.

The Vics on the other hand prefer to let our promising young kids rot in Premier Cricket, whilst stocking up with imports and journeymen.

It's great that we are always up their in the three comps but at some point in time we have to look to the future.

Hill, Gulbis, Keath all appear promising - they need to be playing in the Shield and Ryobi Cup not just the futures league.

The mindset or aim of the Bushrangers needs to change and the selectors need to change as well.

 

[BarneyBent]

The thing about NSW is that it just breeds better players, and is superior to Victoria in every single facet.

Seriously though, NSW show far more faith in their young players than Victoria do, and it shows in their performances. If there's a promising young player, they give them a shot, they show confidence in them, and that confidence equates to performances. Phil Hughes, Usman Khawaja, Steve Smith, Nic Maddinson, Josh Hazlewood, Mitch Starc, Trent Copeland (though you could argue his case is special). All have come into the team on a regular basis between the ages of 18 and 22, all have been given a good run, and all have performed. It doesn't always work; Henriques has been given a very long run despite showing fairly little, but even that looks like it might be paying off, as he looked absolutely fantastic in the first Shield game this summer before injuring himself.

The point is that these players don't necessarily have bucketloads more talent than young players from other states. They no doubt benefit from the incredibly strong grade cricket scene in NSW, but they're treated with a lot more confidence and respect once they grab a NSW contract as well. They're not going out there just as replacements for injured or international players, and know they will be dropped as soon as said players come back. They are treated as full time members of the team, and are expected to perform to the same level as any 25-30 y.o. And guess what? They do.

 

[Smokey_22]

Two very good posts above me here. /\

If you look at the junior championships, Victoria haven't really performed. NSW have dominated at every age - they just have more talent. Perhaps people overestimate the talent pool in Victorian cricket due to their success in domestic cricket. These people need to take a look at Sydney grade cricket. Easily the strongest in the world.
I guess with NSW having their first XI virtually playing international cricket, it's enabled them to promote youth. They develop quicker. And the cycle continues.

 

[FRUMPY]

Still is some good youth in the side. Hill, Finch, Pattison, Wade, Siddle. I agree McGain should not be played. He wont do anything for Australia anymore. Think Holland may have been injured a little while ago and maybe not quite upto it att he monet because of that.

 

[western royboy]

A few reasons (not excuses) worth noting. When living in Sin City, we were able to play practice matches - in August - on Turf - not just any turf good tracks with plenty of grass. We trained on Turf practice wickets from August onwards. When we started the season - God forbid it was always on AFL Grand Final Day - it was on Turf and despite the odd wet day, they usually occurred after Xmas.

The wickets in Sydney were harder, flatter with good pace and in general did a bit less than those in Melbourne.

I don't think talent is the issue, I think the NSW system is clearly better than ours. At my Sydney club we had heaps of kids coming from the Central West area. Mark Taylor, Mick Slater and the like were all recruited to Sydney as kids to play grade, so too Phil Hughes. Most talented cricketers are talented sportsmen in general, very few choose cricket the odds of making it for the Vics / Aussies is a lot less than getting on an AFL list.

 

[eddiesmith]

The main issue Victoria has is the same people who are good at cricket are often good at footy, NSW dont have a clash really as rugby draws different types of players

They probably do need some better groundsmen in premier cricket as well, it seems the will to win rather than produce good players starts at that level, 1 club will often produce the shittest pitch ever seen to get an outright result, yet the next week its the flattest pitch outside the subcontinent, not good for developing batsmen. There is 1 young player who has been in the 2nd XI/U23 system for a number of years but can never seem to produce big scores at either level, its either a problem with him or maybe he just doesnt get the chance

I was suprised to see NSW has 20 clubs, but they probably have more people, I reckon Victorian premier cricket needs to cut back, maybe go to 2 divisions, but you cant have players spread so much across to many clubs when the level of top available talent just isnt there and therefore the good batsmen are usually limited to 1 per club and then they just dont get support to put on big partnerships and big scores

Been having this discussion elsewhere today as well, but T20 is a major issue in getting younger players into the system, there is so much money available to state cricket associations who have little that they need to keep the older blokes who are winning the T20 comps around so they keep making the money.

However I can see this team taking the park sometime this season and its not too bad for youth wise.

Hill, Rogers, Finch, Hussey, White, McDonald, Wade, Hastings, McKay, Pattinson, Holland

As for McGain playing ahead of Holland, Holland did have surgery in the off season so they are probably easing him back

The biggest issue with young bowlers though seems to be that most of them cannot cope with the increased workload at the higher levels so that can make promoting youth in the bowling ranks difficult

 

[Soups]

Play Ryan Carters. There is your future right there.

 

[western royboy]

The main issue Victoria has is the same people who are good at cricket are often good at footy, NSW dont have a clash really as rugby draws different types of players

agree 100%

They probably do need some better groundsmen in premier cricket as well

As an amateur curator you can only do your best given the materials and condiitions you have. No AFL or Rugby is ever played over the squares in NSW as a rule. Climate is significantly better for couch grasses.


I was suprised to see NSW has 20 clubs, but they probably have more people, I reckon Victorian premier cricket needs to cut back, maybe go to 2 divisions, but you cant have players spread so much across to many clubs when the level of top available talent just isnt there and therefore the good batsmen are usually limited to 1 per club and then they just dont get support to put on big partnerships and big scores

Agree with you but Sydney geographically is a far bigger city. Used rto take me an hour + to get to Hawksbury for a game - 10 am start - left at 8am. They have 5 grades - all very good standards of cricket. We need to review the Premier Cricket aim and make appropriate changes.

Been having this discussion elsewhere today as well, but T20 is a major issue in getting younger players into the system, there is so much money available to state cricket associations who have little that they need to keep the older blokes who are winning the T20 comps around so they keep making the money.

Massive problem

The biggest issue with young bowlers though seems to be that most of them cannot cope with the increased workload at the higher levels so that can make promoting youth in the bowling ranks difficult

I actually think CV have stuffed up junior cricket in this state. We have all these kids playing micky mouse games with very few getting through to senior level, let alone elite level. Kids are jack of it by the time they are 16 or 17, it's totally wrong IMO. I would appear to be in the lunatic fringe however.

 

[Cotchin 9]

Some of these Premier clubs must have a bit of cash to spend. Peter Trego and Alex Hales (County players) both play for Casey-South Melbourne and Dandenong respectively and Northcote have been able to lure over Doropolous from WA.

Don't know a whole lot about the ages of players, but it is good to see guys like Alex Keath and Jackson Coleman playing 1's at Melbourne. To be honest I'd rather see a guy like Keath playing in the Shield instead of Quiney (maybe Year 12 committments for Keath?) as that's where the future is. However, don't know if there is a whole lot of other kids playing Premier Cricket. I think Topp from Ringwood is on the fringes, who else??

 

[Manni & Ken]

Simply, at the moment, it's that NSW's cream is better than Victoria's which creates the opportunities for the young players. If Hussey, White, McDonald were all playing for Australia (like Katich, Clarke and Watson are), then you'd be able to pump games into your Michael Hill, Aaron Finch, Evan Gulbis, Tom Stray from the age of 21.

What it is doing is creating a cycle though, where each generation doesn't put the scores on the board till they are 27+ because they've had to wait that time to get a guernsey, so they don't get the fast-tracking that a Smith, Khawaja gets.

You can't drop anyone from the Vic batting line-up on any other reasoning than them being "too old", they keep producing. And that sort of thing is culture destroying.
Victoria is caught in a catch-22 situation.

And simply, no-one is beating the door down. Forsyth's been inconsistent across Grade and Futures League, they've invested in Keath and they won't expose him too early, and no young quick has really come out and blasted teams apart. Quiney is the one in the current team whose spot is shakiest, to be fair. Stray and Gulbis options from outside of the squad, but there's a huge gap in that 24-28 group. Expect to see us recruit more players from interstate in the near future!

 

[Yoda_]

Alot of very good points.

Victoria are often trying for home grown glory (Sheffield Shield's, Big Bash Title's, ODD cup's), where as you look at players from NSW and they are trying to bring in another youngster.

Look at NSW recently, they brought in young Maddison instead of a proven opener, David Warner.

It will only be better for them in the long run.

Victoria recently had the perfect opportunity to blood a young Forsyth, but instead opted for the recently retired Nick Jewell to open the batting.

See what I mean. NSW are looking to blood Australian players, Victoria are to busy trying to win domestic titles.

Cricket Victoria need to stop taking a preservative approach. Look at last seasons top 5 run scorers.

Graeme Rummans 1033 runs @ 57.39
Evan Gulbis 979 @ 54.39
Tom Stray 884 @ 46.53
Liam Buchanan 769 @ 45.25
Dale Tormey 758 @ 50.53

Then down in the top 50 run scorers last year, you also had:

Ben Clements 469 @ 36.08


And then lower again you had the two Victorian rookie guys:

Glenn Maxwell 393 runs @ 32.79
Brett Forsyth 359 @ 27.62

how about Victoria start blooding some of these 'young guns' we do have.

People say Gulibs was talked about as a possibility of heading to South Australia, chasing opportunities, wouldn't surprise me. Aiden Blizzard did this, Josh Mangan also went chasing opportunities in W.A after we latched onto 38 y.o Bryce Magain as our number one spinner.

Michael Beer, another recent departee seeking opportunities interstate..

Last year we could have put Beer, or James Wild, Chris Salm or even Jayde Herrick as rookies to bolster our bowling stocks.

Sadly though, Cricket Victoria do not want to look into the distant future, but see the signifigance in constantly winning domestic titles.

On the other hand, NSW in recent times have given consistant opportunities to Phillip Hughes, Stephen O'Keefe, Steven Smith, Mitch Starc and Josh Hazzlewood.

Victoria have gone with the same 'older tier' of players and have hardly injected and life into the aging Victorian middle order.

Have said a bit recently that Victoria will struggle. Hill will struggle when he is given a bit of responsibility despite him "coming into his prime" at 22 +, Brett Forsyth, another in that age group, whilst the other rookies are not going to get a game.

Oh well, enough of the ramble...

 

[Special88]

Interesting no one has mentioned Maxwell... The kid earned his contract on the back of a year for Fitzroy where he took 30+ wickets and made stacks of runs batting in the top 4... Done pretty well in futures league or 2nd XI but always batting around 7... Spent the year at the academy earning good reviews by all reports..... So obviously there is a very promising player right there not to mention is fielding is rated as close to the best in the state....

He's played 3 T20's and is yet to bowl an over and has batted at 8 every time... Played the one day final on debut bowled a few overs and did ok but once again batted at 8....

Thats a prime example of Victorias lack of faith in the youngsters... earnt his call up yet when picked they didn't have enough faith to bowl him or bat him up the order......

Same with Hill in his early years... been rookied for 4 years now I think? Was under19 vic and aus captain, was belting them at premier level yet couldn't get a go but when he did was batted at 7 or 8, far to low and not given a real crack.... He is getting a go now it seems in the shield.. But IMO its taken far to long and 2 or so years of his development wasted.

 

[BarneyBent]

Interesting no one has mentioned Maxwell... The kid earned his contract on the back of a year for Fitzroy where he took 30+ wickets and made stacks of runs batting in the top 4... Done pretty well in futures league or 2nd XI but always batting around 7... Spent the year at the academy earning good reviews by all reports..... So obviously there is a very promising player right there not to mention is fielding is rated as close to the best in the state....

He's played 3 T20's and is yet to bowl an over and has batted at 8 every time... Played the one day final on debut bowled a few overs and did ok but once again batted at 8....

Thats a prime example of Victorias lack of faith in the youngsters... earnt his call up yet when picked they didn't have enough faith to bowl him or bat him up the order......

That's absolutely ridiculous. I mean, fair enough playing a young allrounder on debut at 8, and just not working him into the bowling rotation. Sometimes things turn out like that. But 3 games in a row? Christ, what's the point of including him then? If he's not good enough to bowl 1-2 overs in a T20 or bat higher than 8 in the current team, then he shouldn't be selected. If he is, he should bloody well bowl or bat!

Victoria, pick up your game. I'm a NSW supporter, but I'm an Australia supporter before that, and I want to see international-level talent developed in all states.

 

[Phone]

Kane Richardson is getting the same treatment at SA. Pretty poor form.

 

[eddiesmith]

Maxwell was being played as a speciallist fielder, yet he couldnt even do that properly, even when he has got a hit he has been disappointing, but fact is he isnt good enough to oust any of about 10 players ahead of him for top order batting, maybe he will get his chance tomorrow in the new look Bushrangers outfit

 

[Special88]

Maxwell was being played as a speciallist fielder, yet he couldnt even do that properly, even when he has got a hit he has been disappointing, but fact is he isnt good enough to oust any of about 10 players ahead of him for top order batting, maybe he will get his chance tomorrow in the new look Bushrangers outfit

How do you know this if he hasn't been given a decent crack to show what he is made of? Fact is he has a contract on the back of big performances.. he is rated very highly, enough to be sent to the academy..

I spoke to him after the champions league and he said he was basically shafted after the shot he played in the first game.. which was fair enough was rubbish... but he also said every time he's had a chance to bat so far.. batting at number 8 the team has been ****ed... and his attitude is not to spend time at the crease and bat for himself.. he wanted to try get quick runs for the team... saw fine leg was up and tried to paddle it there.. was dumb... but what do you expect sending him in like that everytime... tried to do something drastic just to get noticed basically....

Probably a little more faith will help in the long run... if he gets picked on a one off, same goes for any young player... at least give them an actually opportunity with bat or ball.... Will Sheridan was given a chance to open.. Didn't even do that much to get that chance but he got it... bit more of that would benefit everyone!

NSW do it perfectly.. they back there young kids... They don't win that many titles as in more recent times but they keep belting out international players....

BTW what is the squad for tomorrows game?

 

[eddiesmith]

Quite young compared to normal, but looking at it and no8 is still Maxwells even with about 10 internationals missing

Bushrangers squad: Andrew McDonald (Capt), Ryan Carters, Mark Cleary, Aaron Finch, Evan Gulbis, Shane Harwood, Michael Hill, Brad Hodge, Jon Holland, Glenn Maxwell, Darren Pattinson, Rob Quiney, Will Sheridan, Matthew Wade

Anyway will discuss Maxwell more when finished with match thread, but I have NFI what Sheridan is even doing around the side

 

[eddiesmith]

How do you know this if he hasn't been given a decent crack to show what he is made of? Fact is he has a contract on the back of big performances.. he is rated very highly, enough to be sent to the academy..

I spoke to him after the champions league and he said he was basically shafted after the shot he played in the first game.. which was fair enough was rubbish... but he also said every time he's had a chance to bat so far.. batting at number 8 the team has been ****ed... and his attitude is not to spend time at the crease and bat for himself.. he wanted to try get quick runs for the team... saw fine leg was up and tried to paddle it there.. was dumb... but what do you expect sending him in like that everytime... tried to do something drastic just to get noticed basically....

Probably a little more faith will help in the long run... if he gets picked on a one off, same goes for any young player... at least give them an actually opportunity with bat or ball.... Will Sheridan was given a chance to open.. Didn't even do that much to get that chance but he got it... bit more of that would benefit everyone!

NSW do it perfectly.. they back there young kids... They don't win that many titles as in more recent times but they keep belting out international players....

That attitude worries me and confirms some things I have heard about him, but you have to bide your time, do the hard yards, become well liked and the chances will come

Aaron Finch absolutely smashed district cricket to a level Maxwell could only dream of, yet his chances didnt come immediately, bits and pieces here and there, then last year he comes in with the team in the shit, he puts on a sensational partnership, has a match winning innings and now cemented in all sides, thats how you do it, thats how you jump up the order of a dominant batting side. Victoria has enough depth in their lineup for someone to support Maxwell if he puts his head down and tries to pull the team out of trouble, but that shot was awful

These days there seems to be a belief that a young player is to be handed everything, given chances ahead of everyone and plenty of chances just because they are young, gone are the days it seems when people earnt their shots and they took them with both hands and made it impossible to be dropped

 

[Special88]

Finch had a year where he made 900 runs... absolutely huge season.. Stoked to see him taking his chances this year... His 2nd best season got him 600 runs....

Maxis best year saw him get 670 runs at 52 and bag 35 wickets.... Then last season when he was with the vic side a bit and playing lot during the week got 400 runs and 20 wickets.... And he has only just turned 22.

So he's prob not as far behind as you may think... He has a fair bit of work to do.. he has been told this especially if he wants first class cricket... But they see something in him for sure and I hope he shows it at that level soon.... Im not saying hand it to him.. but when a kid gets an opportunity or selected to bat or bowl... they deserve to actually get an opportunity and see what he can do...

Id like to see him and Carters at least bat above Hastings when they are picked and possibly get picked a head of Quiney who has had countless opportunities... Although his shield hundred may have shot him up the ranks again.

 

[eddiesmith]

I would like to see Tom Stray get a shot before Carters or Sheridan in the future but he must have upset somebody

 

[Special88]

I would like to see Tom Stray get a shot before Carters or Sheridan in the future but he must have upset somebody

Word is he and Foresyth copped it for the way they batted in the futures league game... needing run rate of close to 6 i believe both opened and had strike rates of 30 and when the others got in was too late.... Upset a few people I have heard.

He hasn't had a great start to this season anyway... if he pushed on from last year he'd be right up there by now im sure. Probably deserved a rookie contract after last season actually.

 

[eddiesmith]

A bit poor then, thats they way he always bats, never seen again the brilliance when he hit a T20 hundred back in the early days of the format, just imagine if Michael Hill was also there! But alot has already gone wrong by that stage, unfair to single out 2 players especially when they were keys in Victoria winning it last year