Who replaces Will in the midfield rotation?

[a mayes ing]

I've always assumed it has but does anyone know what the after effects of an ACL injury is. Is Will likely to get any long term effects like increased potential for injury, loss of speed/leap etc?

 

[JasRulz63]

I've always assumed it has but does anyone know what the after effects of an ACL injury is. Is Will likely to get any long term effects like increased potential for injury, loss of speed/leap etc?

Generally if you've had one ACL rupture, you're statistically more likely to have another (in either leg) than if you hadn't.

Though I do remember reading a study once where they showed ~70% of AFL players after ACL injury returned to preinjury levels of performance (based on ranking points I think), with younger (and lighter) players having better outcomes. As an example, Petracca injured his ACL a few months after being drafted, and has evidently recovered OK.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Generally if you've had one ACL rupture, you're statistically more likely to have another (in either leg) than if you hadn't.

Though I do remember reading a study once where they showed ~70% of AFL players after ACL injury returned to preinjury levels of performance (based on ranking points I think), with younger (and lighter) players having better outcomes.

Touchwood, I just hope Will doesn’t have a career similar to these AFL players now in the future, as a result of those past players having multiple ACL reconstructions in their careers

 

[rye]

Generally if you've had one ACL rupture, you're statistically more likely to have another (in either leg) than if you hadn't.

Though I do remember reading a study once where they showed ~70% of AFL players after ACL injury returned to preinjury levels of performance (based on ranking points I think), with younger (and lighter) players having better outcomes. As an example, Petracca injured his ACL a few months after being drafted, and has evidently recovered OK.

i think the risk is basically the same as the general population 18 months removed from the acl surgery

 

[Nunez]

Thankfully our medical team have a great track record treating ACL injuries. I do worry about how many we've had the last few years though. Hope we are leaving no stone unturned when it comes to preventative work.

 

[3KZ is Football]

More Midfield time for Cam Rayner. We've gotta get him to contribute more. His skillset is amazing. It is so disappointing we haven't worked out a way to get him more involved.

Is it “our” fault? I would have thought Cam had to bear some responsibility for his variable and sometimes completely underwhelming performances.

 

[Nunez]

Is it “our” fault? I would have thought Cam had to bear some responsibility for his variable and sometimes completely underwhelming performances.

Honestly, it goes both ways. When playing third tall, he was really starting to show some consistent form. We want to play Gunston (who has indeed earned his spot back) and Cam is struggling to work out exactly what his current role is. We have made it hard for him, but he needs to work through it.

With that said, I absolutely believe we need to get him into 10+ centre bounces a game. It's time to give him that opportunity and see if he can take it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Agreed Nunez . I would have thought he would be a natural in the middle. Do you think it is an issue with his ‘tank’?

 

[Nunez]

Agreed Nunez . I would have thought he would be a natural in the middle. Do you think it is an issue with his ‘tank’?

He doesn't have the tank to play full midfield minutes, but think we've preferenced him forward this year more due to luxury than anything. Having the likes of Ashcroft, McCluggage, Berry, Bailey and Zorko as our second stringers to Neale and Dunks is an incredible luxury. Now that we've lost Ashcroft, we have 10 CBAs up for grabs.

This week is a great opportunity to test things out. Wouldn't want to see if it'll work come week one of finals. Need to find out now.

 

[RU_]

Ah Chee into the middle? Hands were pretty good on the weekend.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Touchwood, I just hope Will doesn’t have a career similar to these AFL players now in the future, as a result of those past players having multiple ACL reconstructions in their careers

Jabari Parker was the Number 2 draft pick for the Milwaukee Bucks back in 2014. He did his ACL during his 1st season. He returned exactly 11 months later, taking about a month until he was back to the same level pre-injury. Finished his 2nd year off really well.

Sadly in his 3rd season, he did his ACL again in the same knee. Eventually came back but was never the same again, moved teams and his career stagnated over the next 5-6 seasons although he never had anymore ACL injuries after the 2nd.

It's a shocking injury, very prominent in AFL & Basketball due to the lateral movements and planting the leg. Some players just have rotten luck, others though can go on to have very succesful careers and never see any repeats. The best examples are in our own club with Rich, Hipwood & Rayner all coming back more than fine, even improving post-injury.

The moral of the story, we won't know how it'll affect Will until we know.

 

[braddsey]

Thankfully our medical team have a great track record treating ACL injuries. I do worry about how many we've had the last few years though. Hope we are leaving no stone unturned when it comes to preventative work.

The Lions are probably about average in terms of ACL injuries. Certainly our ACL's have been high profile (Rayner, Hipwood, now Ashcroft), but there's currently 15 players out with blown ACL's across the comp (based on currently injury lists and google). That's about the pretty standard per season for the men's comp. Doesn't make it better or worse... just about unlucky as any other team.

 

[dlanod]

i think the risk is basically the same as the general population 18 months removed from the acl surgery

Once you've had one it may mean that you're predisposed to them because of your specific knee structure, so that would be part of the stats too.

 

[mpal6]

So he is a completely different player than Will and so is not a like for like replacement.

There is no like for like replacement for Ashcroft. If you bring Lyons in, he's more a contested ball mid than someone who can switch forward with Cam or play on wing for example. If you bring just Bailey, he's a sneak forward type player which is his strength. Rayner can be good for bursts but not 100% midfield.

So we bring in a player who resembles Dunkleys playing traits, can play midfield/wing/tag and more importantly gut run forward or back to assist. Ashcroft is more a ball winning mid than a defensive mid which is still our weakness in the middle. Dev is the closest we have to strengthen this area.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

There is no like for like replacement for Ashcroft. If you bring Lyons in, he's more a contested ball mid than someone who can switch forward with Cam or play on wing for example. If you bring just Bailey, he's a sneak forward type player which is his strength. Rayner can be good for bursts but not 100% midfield.

So we bring in a player who resembles Dunkleys playing traits, can play midfield/wing/tag and more importantly gut run forward or back to assist. Ashcroft is more a ball winning mid than a defensive mid which is still our weakness in the middle. Dev is the closest we have to strengthen this area.

My great problem with Dev is that he doesn't get the ball enough.

Never got 20 disposals in a game!

 

[Squizz89]

Dee's experience could get Ashcroft back on 'Trac'

Young Lion can take solace from the career Christian Petracca has carved out after an early knee injury

www.afl.com.au

Chris Fagan has not overworked him though, putting him into less than 45 per cent of centre bounces, and giving him considerable minutes at half-forward and even on the wing.

From the team that defeated the Cats on Saturday, Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

24

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

(calf) was absent, and whether he comes back to play Gold Coast this week or Fremantle the next, will slot straight back in.

Brisbane could comfortably give Bailey (who has attended more than 20 per cent of centre bounces this season) and Cam Rayner more midfield minutes.

Callum Ah Chee

4

Callum Ah Chee

Age

26

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

9.4

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

came in for Bailey at the weekend and cannot be dropped after playing the best game of his career.

The Lions' other options to cover Ashcroft include recalling Deven Robertson

2

Deven Robertson

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.0

1star

as a hybrid midfielder/half-forward, or bringing Jarryd Lyons

17

Jarryd Lyons

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.5

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

21.7

5star

K

14.7

5star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.1

5star

CL

4.7

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.8

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

in as a specialist midfielder.

 

[BRAB]

My great problem with Dev is that he doesn't get the ball enough.

Never got 20 disposals in a game!

Has he ever played as a full time mid though? Feels like he always spends a lot of time in the forward line

 

[briztoon]

My great problem with Dev is that he doesn't get the ball enough.

Never got 20 disposals in a game!

He’s never been put in a role to “get” the ball.

Plays defensive mid.

Plays defensive forward.

Plays wing, which in our system requires lots of defending.

Or is asked to tag an oppo player.

He’s never been given a see ball, get ball role.

 

[Nunez]

Has he ever played as a full time mid though? Feels like he always spends a lot of time in the forward line

Dev playing full time mid would probably average 25+ a game.

That is absolutely not the issue though, it's his disposal.

 

[Squizz89]

Dev playing full time mid would probably average 25+ a game.

That is absolutely not the issue though, it's his disposal.

I think if they’re wondering whether Dev is a legitimate option or not, then the games against GC & Freo are the games to find out.

Give him the instruction to just go out and hunt the ball, which he is quite good at and then reevaluate his disposal after those games to see whether he’s improved.

It’ll be pretty telling, I reckon, if he isn’t picked this week.

FWIW, and a bit off the subject of Dev, but I liked your suggestion of Cockatoo, although I have no idea how he’s going in reserves?

As shit as it is losing Will, I’m hoping we use it as an unfortunate way of trying to get even better in there by throwing an X factor type in for short bursts like a Cam or Cockatoo, but balance that out at times with the more defensive minded Dev. Play the safe option in Lyons later on if it isn’t working.

 

[martinson]

Dev playing full time mid would probably average 25+ a game.

That is absolutely not the issue though, it's his disposal.

Dev's one of those players who's too good for the VFL but when he plays AFL any deficiencies become more obvious.

No doubt he would've had more opportunities at some other clubs and by now you'd know whether he could cut the mustard as a permanent midfielder.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Didn't think Devs kicking has been too bad this year in the seniors. Would've liked a lot more improvement though

 

[Nunez]

Dev's one of those players who's too good for the VFL but when he plays AFL any deficiencies become more obvious.

No doubt he would've had more opportunities at some other clubs and by now you'd know whether he could cut the mustard as a permanent midfielder.

I honestly think his deficiencies aren't related to either level of football, but more mental than anything. I think he'll get there.

I am really warming to the idea of giving Rayner plenty of CBAs and having Dev run off the half forward flank and into the midfield while Rayner rotates back forward.

 

[M Malice]

I think if they’re wondering whether Dev is a legitimate option or not, then the games against GC & Freo are the games to find out. Give him the instruction to just go out and hunt the ball, which he is quite good at and then reevaluate his disposal efficiency after those games, to see whether he’s improved. It’ll be pretty telling, I reckon, if he isn’t picked this week.

Yep, giving Dev a couple of games in his preferred role against teams we should beat is a no brainer IMO.

I went back and had a look at Dev's last few games in the VFL where he would have played primarily as a ball getting mid, he had no trouble getting his hands on the ball.

Round 18 v Cats- 25 disposals, 9 clearances, 4 marks, 4 tackles.
Round 10 v Frankston- 25 disposals, 5 clearances. 3 marks, 21 tackles.
Round 9 v Coburg- 39 disposals, 9 clearances, 2 marks, 1 tackle.
Round 8 v Bombers- 26 disposals, 6 clearances, 2 marks, 4 tackles.
Round 7 v Blues- 31 disposals, 8 clearances, 4 marks, 6 tackles.

 

[martinson]

I honestly think his deficiencies aren't related to either level of football, but more mental than anything. I think he'll get there.

I am really warming to the idea of giving Rayner plenty of CBAs and having Dev run off the half forward flank and into the midfield while Rayner rotates back forward.

That's probably about our best option.

Bailey mightn't be up for this week and isn't near a like for like for Ashcroft.

One way or another we need to get Rayner into the game and give him more responsibility.

It loos like Gunston's staying but that sort of leaves Rayner in no man's land as a forward.