Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[Mr Meow]

Newcombe had a great season but not sure you can make the argument that Newcombe has gone past him as a player just because of the 2nd half of 2024. Walsh still averaged more coaches votes in a year that wasn't really close to his best overall and he was still impacted by the back injury in pre-season.

Walsh's first 8 games or so of the season were tremendous.

Impact wise he fell off after that. So I stand by my statement. Newcombe dominated the final stretch including two knockout finals.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Wtf are they putting in the water down at Waverly??
Day is more naturally gifted than Cripps???

Cripps is more naturally blessed. Look at the guy.

Day isn't. He came into the AFL weighing as much as an Auskicker and is still only just getting close to his ideal build after 5 years in the system.
But he's a beautiful kick. Is elite below his knees. Can float across and take marks at the highest point. Can weave in and out of traffic. And is as hard as a cats hard.

The general consensus from Hawthorn supporters is that he's probably the most naturally skilled and gifted footballer on our list alongside Nick Watson.

Would Cripps be the gun that he is if he wasn't 6'4 and strong as an ox? His size and strength is ultimately what sets him apart.

 

[Mr Meow]

By that measure Walsh had the same number of votes this year in less games?

Neither Newcombe or Day are on the level of Cripps or Walsh at their best. I'll concede Walsh has struggled for stretches the last couple years with his back, but a poor season from Walsh is about equal to Newcombe's career best season... Says it all really

Walsh had that brilliant stretch but fell off badly in the final 2 months. Coaches votes confirm as much.

Newcombe winning the BnF for a side that was a kick off a prelim is better than Walsh finishing 3rd in a side that got thrashed in an EF.

Newcombe was also easily his sides best finals player and arguably the best midfielder in both finals (against Bont, Butters etc).

PS if it was a "poor season" for Walsh, how many seasons has he had of a much higher quality? He had half a tremendous season and half an okay season but overall i don't see that as a big drop off from most he's played in (2021 the exception).

 

[carlton_99]

Walsh's first 8 games or so of the season were tremendous.

Impact wise he fell off after that. So I stand by my statement. Newcombe dominated the final stretch including two knockout finals.

So are you just talking about who was better in 2024 or who is the better overall player at this point? If it's 2024 fair enough I think that it's quite close but with Newcombe's finish to the season and his performances in finals he may get up for some. If it's overall surely it can't just be based on half a year where Newcombe was better and ignore everything else?

 

[Mr Meow]

So are you just talking about who was better in 2024 or who is the better overall player at this point? If it's 2024 fair enough I think that it's quite close but with Newcombe's finish to the season and his performances in finals he may get up for some. If it's overall surely it can't just be based on half a year where Newcombe was better and ignore everything else?

Newcombe had a better, more consistent season than Walsh.

You could say Walsh's best 8 game stretch was more high impact. His average coaches vote during that stretch was highest in the league. But then he has stretches where the stat sheet looks good but influence is so-so.

I'd prefer Newcombe on a dream team headed into 2025. He stood up big time in 2 knockout finals and was a dominant player driving Hawthorn's rise to a potential contender.

 

[Fadge]

Newcombe had a better, more consistent season than Walsh.

You could say Walsh's best 8 game stretch was more high impact. His average coaches vote during that stretch was highest in the league. But then he has stretches where the stat sheet looks good but influence is so-so.

I'd prefer Newcombe on a dream team headed into 2025. He stood up big time in 2 knockout finals and was a dominant player driving Hawthorn's rise to a potential contender.

Yep.

Newcombe over Walsh going into 2025, and I reckon there's a clear gap.

I'd also have Day ahead of Walsh.

1. Cripps
2. Newcombe
3. Day
4. Walsh

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Newcombe had a better, more consistent season than Walsh.

You could say Walsh's best 8 game stretch was more high impact. His average coaches vote during that stretch was highest in the league. But then he has stretches where the stat sheet looks good but influence is so-so.

I'd prefer Newcombe on a dream team headed into 2025. He stood up big time in 2 knockout finals and was a dominant player driving Hawthorn's rise to a potential contender.

While I agree with most of this, I still wouldn't have Newcombe ahead of him going into 2025 if Walsh gets through the pre season unscathed given his best has proven to be the better of the two. Walsh died in the arse in the back half of the season but a full pre season would likely see him back to his best consistently again.

No pre season in 3 years its remarkable he's performed to the level he has over that stretch.

Either way he's certainly not behind Day like the troll above would claim.

 

[Fadge]

Either way he's certainly not behind Day like the troll above would claim.

So we should be completely disregard the Hawthorn supporters who rate Day as their best player?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So we should be completely disregard the Hawthorn supporters who rate Day as their best player?

Fadge if you can tell me, using statistics, coaches votes, Brownlow votes... Pretty much anything that comes from an actual measurement and not just ur scone, then I'll gladly listen to it.

But there is practically nothing to support Day being a better player than Walsh other than blind faith and hope.

At least Newcombe you can make an argument given his last two seasons have been of high quality.

 

[Fadge]

At least Newcombe you can make an argument given his last two seasons have been of high quality.

And Day's 2023 season was better than Newcombe's, as rated by his coaches in his club's best and fairest award.

I would have them both ahead of Walsh going into 2025.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

And Day's 2023 season was better than Newcombe's, as rated by his coaches in his club's best and fairest award.

I would have them both ahead of Walsh going into 2025.

Some stats Fadge... Use them to explain how Day is better than Walsh?

BnF results for a team that came 16th don't hold much weight for mine.

 

[Mr Meow]

While I agree with most of this, I still wouldn't have Newcombe ahead of him going into 2025 if Walsh gets through the pre season unscathed given his best has proven to be the better of the two. Walsh died in the arse in the back half of the season but a full pre season would likely see him back to his best consistently again.

No pre season in 3 years its remarkable he's performed to the level he has over that stretch.

Either way he's certainly not behind Day like the troll above would claim.

Well I wouldn't expect any Carlton supporter to have Newcombe ahead of Walsh. The pre season stuff may be true and swap Walsh back ahead of Newcombe but I'm just giving my opinion. I'm no Hawthorn lover and would take a Carlton flag over them in 2025 any day.

Agreed that Day is behind Walsh. His impact is better than stats suggest but he still has to find the footy another 5 or 6 times a game (I'm looking at 2024 only as it complicates to go back further) to be a star.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Well I wouldn't expect any Carlton supporter to have Newcombe ahead of Walsh. The pre season stuff may be true and swap Walsh back ahead of Newcombe but I'm just giving my opinion. I'm no Hawthorn lover and would take a Carlton flag over them in 2025 any day.

Agreed that Day is behind Walsh. His impact is better than stats suggest but he still has to find the footy another 5 or 6 times a game (I'm looking at 2024 only as it complicates to go back further) to be a star.

Fair enough Meowbagger. On 2024 I wouldn't have Newcombe and Walsh too far apart so I don't think it's too silly to have one over the other. However, I'm still waiting for the ludicrous unit who said that Day is more talented than Cripps to explain himself.

 

[Thrawn]

By virtue of finishing top 4 and playing a Qualifying Final against Collingwood at the MCG, Melbourne were indeed a greater chance at contending for the premiership than Carlton, who finished 5th and eventually had to go to Brisnane for a highly unlikely Preliminary Final win.

In the end, neither team contended, given Melbourne also fell short the following week in the semi final, and Carlton were outclassed I Brisbane.

But if Melbourne find 8 more points in the Qualifying Final, they get a home Preliminary Final, and history could have been very different.

Top 4 after home and away is where most of the premiership contenders start, though now with the break before finals, we are starting to see some lower ranked teams emerge as genuine premiership contenders during the finals series - Brisbane in 2024, GWS in 2023, Bulldogs in 2021.

But they didn't finish top 4.

They went out in straight sets, as history shows.

Top 4 sides don't blow out in straight sets, they make a prelim or higher. Actual results matter more than hypothetical scenarios.

 

[Fadge]

But they didn't finish top 4.

They went out in straight sets, as history shows.

Top 4 sides don't blow out in straight sets, they make a prelim or higher. Actual results matter more than hypothetical scenarios.

Top 8 sides don't go 0 - 60 in an Elimination Final, either...

GWS were one of the best 4 sides in 2024, despite failing to make a Preliminary Final.

 

[Mr Meow]

Fair enough Meowbagger. On 2024 I wouldn't have Newcombe and Walsh too far apart so I don't think it's too silly to have one over the other. However, I'm still waiting for the ludicrous unit who said that Day is more talented than Cripps to explain himself.

Cripps is on another planet as of now, and if you threw him in the Cats midfield we'd just about be premiership favourites. I'd happily take any of the players in question but Day is the one that is yet to have close to AA form. Maybe in 2025 or 2026 that changes - I do think he'll break into a star but isn't quite there yet.

 

[matey]

Can’t see Cripps doing much damage when playing the Hawks moving forward …… his size and strength will be negated by Nash who’s bigger and stronger

 

[YeoShuey]

Question for all the Hawk fans:

Is Jai Newcombe any good? Like if someone were conducting a fantasy draft, would he be a top 36 pick across the AFL?

 

[matey]

Question for all the Hawk fans:

Is Jai Newcombe any good? Like if someone were conducting a fantasy draft, would he be a top 36 pick across the AFL?

Would he get a game at the Blues?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Can’t see Cripps doing much damage when playing the Hawks moving forward …… his size and strength will be negated by Nash

The last 3 times the Hawks have played Carlton, Nash has played and Cripps has averaged:

28 Disposals
14 Contested possessions
7.3 Clearances
8 Score Involvements
8 Tackles

"Negated"

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Would he get a game at the Blues?

Ahead of Hewett yes, if Cerra is fully fit hard to say for sure but I'd say ahead of him too.

 

[YeoShuey]

Would he get a game at the Blues?

No idea. Only one I really notice from the Hawks is Ginnivan. So I am getting understanding from others hence the question.

Is he a Top 36 pick across the AFL or not? Some of us have serious decisions to make here

 

[matey]

The last 3 times the Hawks have played Carlton, Nash has played and Cripps has averaged:

28 Disposals
14 Contested possessions
7.3 Clearances
8 Score Involvements
8 Tackles

"Negated"

I did say moving forward! But that last game we played where the Hawks absolutely smashed Carlton Cripps and Nash had the same amount of possessions so I guess that’s close to being “Negated” . Love this pic even while going for his throat …. he ain’t going anywhere

 

[YeoShuey]

Ahead of Hewett yes, if Cerra is fully fit hard to say for sure but I'd say ahead of him too.

Better than Cerra? No shot.

 

[Worm4]

Top 8 sides don't go 0 - 60 in an Elimination Final, either...

You might want to check that.
It happened. That's a fact