Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[carlton_99]

What I don't understand is why people can't accept "we were about the same". Like if your sides are separated by only percentage after 24 rounds, and the h2h disagrees with who had the higher %, you can't really get any closer than that. Ideally in such a situation one team would obviously prove themselves better in finals. It just doesn't always happen. All you need to do is get 2 more points, or advance further in finals, and it's concrete. Most times with threads like this teams will separate themselves in those terms.

In reality the teams would be about the same - I don't disagree. But I just think if you go to the trouble of setting up the thread and have all the banter that goes with it during the year there should be a team that comes out on top in the end for the purposes of thread specifically.

And on your second point it wasn't the case with Blues/Pies thread. One team made finals and one didn't and it was still not clear cut to some. Like I said I'm happy with any metric as long as it's established before the season starts and kept the same throughout the year.

 

[Mr Meow]

In reality the teams would be about the same - I don't disagree. But I just think if you go to the trouble of setting up the thread and have all the banter that goes with it during the year there should be a team that comes out on top in the end for the purposes of the thread.

And on your second point it wasn't the case with Blues/Pies thread. One team made finals and one didn't and it was still not clear cut. Like I said I'm happy with any metric as long as it's established before the season starts and kept the same throughout the year.

It's not much trouble to create the thread. Two sets of supporters got tetchy with each other and so want to argue for a season, which they will get to do, and if their teams are about the same quality at the end, they will get to argue some more. The thread would therefore serve its purpose.

If there's a clear winner then great, it means one set of supporters get to troll the others for at least an off season. Usually that's what would happen. Collingwood and Carlton supporters instead have been at a bit of a stalemate after 2024, which is why the back and forth over who was better continued.

 

[carlton_99]

It's not much trouble to create the thread. Two sets of supporters got tetchy with each other and so want to argue for a season, which they will get to do, and if their teams are about the same quality at the end, they will get to argue some more. The thread would therefore serve its purpose.

If there's a clear winner then great, it means one set of supporters get to troll the others for at least an off season. Usually that's what would happen. Collingwood and Carlton supporters instead have been at a bit of a stalemate after 2024, which is why the back and forth over who was better continued.

I guess that's where we differ. In my eyes the whole point of the H+A season is to qualify for finals. If one team qualifies and the other doesn't then that first team has had a more successful season. If it was a situation like you mentioned where both teams get KO'd in the same week of finals and then ladder position is also very tight (i.e., maybe small % difference between them) it does become really close. But to avoid all the unnecessary bickering at the end of the season I would just prefer a tiebreaker.

But this is obviously a group thing so if the majority are wanting to maintain some grey area then it's fine. Alternatively, if we want an answer in the end for the purposes of this thread I'm happy as long as the metric stays consistent all year.

 

[Mr Meow]

I guess that's where we differ. In my eyes the whole point of the H+A season is to qualify for finals. If one team qualifies and the other doesn't then that first team has had a more successful season. If it was a situation like you mentioned where both teams get KO'd in the same week of finals and then ladder position is also very tight (i.e., maybe small % difference between them) it does become really close. But to avoid all the unnecessary bickering at the end of the season I would just prefer a tiebreaker.

But this is obviously a group thing so if the majority are wanting to maintain some grey area then it's fine. Alternatively, if we want an answer in the end for the purposes of this thread I'm happy as long as the metric stays consistent all year.

But I don't understand why 8th vs 9th would be any different to 7th vs 8th finishing on the same points. It's still the same situation where you'd want something like a h2h advantage confirming the % advantage. If it contradicts it, good luck convincing anyone that team A was better than team B, or vice versa.

The message behind your post comes across as "it would be nice to know we will have an answer either way, even if we know situations can arise where deep down there isn't a difference". And yeah it doesn't really matter if so. Either people agree to it or not. I know with the Geelong vs Hawthorn thread, there's not a chance in Hell I'm celebrating supremacy if both sides finish on 52 points but we get thumped in an EF and they finish 9th. I have no idea if that's an opinion that would be shared by other Geelong supporters, or indeed Hawthorn supporters if they were the ones ahead by % only. 2024 Geelong had a better W/L record and the h2h record, so it was simple.

 

[carlton_99]

But I don't understand why 8th vs 9th would be any different to 7th vs 8th finishing on the same points. It's still the same situation where you'd want something like a h2h advantage confirming the % advantage. If it contradicts it, good luck convincing anyone that team A was better than team B, or vice versa.

The message behind your post comes across as "it would be nice to know we will have an answer either way, even if we know situations can arise where deep down there isn't a difference". And yeah it doesn't really matter if so. Either people agree to it or not. I know with the Geelong vs Hawthorn thread, there's not a chance in Hell I'm celebrating supremacy if both sides finish on 52 points but we get thumped in an EF and they finish 9th. I have no idea if that's an opinion that would be shared by other Geelong supporters, or indeed Hawthorn supporters if they were the ones ahead by % only. 2024 Geelong had a better W/L record and the h2h record, so it was simple.

My point is more even if the difference isn't significant it's still a difference. And I don't think there is any realistic situation that could arise where there is zero difference between the two teams after a season that goes for 23+ games.

And I think the level of celebration would be correlated to the level of banter during the season. If this thread stays the way it is where it has been mainly about serious football analysis then I doubt you will see many overexuberant celebrations no matter how big the gap is for whatever team comes out on top. If it becomes like the Carlton/Collingwood thread where it was endless banter and heaps of attacks on both teams all year then obviously you will get more overexuberant celebrations even if the difference between teams is small.

Edit: Again I am only talking for myself here. If people on here want to keep it more subjective it's 100% fine.

 

[Mr Meow]

My point is more even if the difference isn't significant it's still a difference. And I don't think there is any realistic situation that could arise where there is zero difference between the two teams after a season that goes for 23+ games.

And I think the level of celebration would be correlated to the level of banter during the season. If this thread stays the way it is where it has been mainly about serious football analysis then I doubt you will see many overexuberant celebrations no matter how big the gap is for whatever team comes out on top. If it becomes like the Carlton/Collingwood thread where it was endless banter and heaps of attacks on both teams all year then obviously you will get more overexuberant celebrations even if the difference between teams is small.

Edit: Again I am only talking for myself here. If people on here want to keep it more subjective it's 100% fine.

I completely get it. If there's no winner at the end of a thread like this, we get the same flat feeling after a drawn game of AFL. And I do understand your point that it could diminish weekly bragging rights opportunities whenever things are deathly close. So there a lot of emotion-based reasons to just agree to terms before the season that would always leave a clear winner or rolling winner. There is nothing fun about "yeah we ended up about the same after all that".