Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[Fadge]

but that IS teh point 'retrospective' a narrative a story a convenience and excuse...\\

gosh you Collingwooders are whiny whiners!

Yes, because we NEVER hear excuses from Carlton supporters...

 

[Fadge]

I dont know who will be better in 2025 but I can confidently say that who ever finishes lower, obviously Steve Hocking is to blame.

Just make sure your team is ready to give them a touch up in round 1...

 

[doppleganger]

Wtf does any of this mean lmao?

Pretty obvious direct comparison of the strength of double up opponents, that highlights how difficult a fixture was.

Another example for you, see if you can follow which team had a tougher fixture when you ain't got your Carlton goggles on.

Port v Adel

Carl 13 win %110 v Sydney 17 win %126
Freo 12 win %112 v Brisbane 14 win %122
Melb 11 win %98 v Hawks 14 win %118
Adel 8 win %99 v Port 16 win %114
WC 5 win %63 v Geel 15 win %112
Rich 2 win %63 v Ess 11 win %93

Crows opponents won 87 H&A games, much higher % (best indicator of quality) and then 9, finals

Port opponents won just 51 H&A games and 0 finals.

You can actually review fixtures, based on strength of opponents. Port had a gift of a 2024 fixture, Crows the hardest in the league.

But yeah stick to your grouping that has Brisbane aligned with Gold Coast, and Adelaide with Richmond.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Pretty obvious direct comparison of the strength of double up opponents, that highlights how difficult a fixture was.

Another example for you, see if you can follow which team had a tougher fixture when you ain't got your Carlton goggles on.

Port v Adel

Carl 13 win %110 v Sydney 17 win %126
Freo 12 win %112 v Brisbane 14 win %122
Melb 11 win %98 v Hawks 14 win %118
Adel 8 win %99 v Port 16 win %114
WC 5 win %63 v Geel 15 win %112
Rich 2 win %63 v Ess 11 win %93

Crows opponents won 87 H&A games, much higher % (best indicator of quality) and then 9, finals

Port opponents won just 51 H&A games and 0 finals.

You can actually review fixtures, based on strength of opponents. Port had a gift of a 2024 fixture, Crows the hardest in the league.

But yeah stick to your grouping that has Brisbane aligned with Gold Coast, and Adelaide with Richmond.

I'm 8 beers into my Christmas party kenty, I'm not reading this bollocks

 

[SplintWhisky]

Just make sure your team is ready to give them a touch up in round 1...

I am sure Curnow and Mckay will be intimidated by the backline line up of Balta and Miller/Blight/Gibcus.

Weitering will also be shaking in his boots at the thought of lining up against the goliath of a man in Kosi or Gray

 

[jezzajay]

Quite ironic when a poster accuses another of 'melting', yet the 'melting' in their own response is ten times the magnitude.

Though self awareness has never been a strength of Carlton supporters.

If by me laughing hilariously is me melting...then you roll with it.

 

[jezzajay]

So a first week finals exit, when you were one of the premiership fancies mid year is now a success because one of your players won an individual award?

I couldn’t give a stuff about Eddie Macguire. He’s yesterday’s man. If you’re alluding to Judd beating Swanny in 2010’s Brownlow I’m sure he quickly forgot about it 2 weeks later when we won a premiership. Only a success starved Carlton imbecile would see that as any sort of “gotcha” moment

You can celebrate as you see fit. If you miss finals next year and Jagga Smith wins the Rising Star you can tell yourself the year was another triumph. Carlton does consolation prizes really well these days, well this century actually.

You're just putting words in my mouth with your first sentence.

I'm sorry to see you don't give a stuff about Eddie...poor Eddie.
And I can tell you I'm not 'success starved'...I'm succeeding at many facets in life.

So I can celebrate as I see fit...funny, earlier post you were bagging us out!

Standard Collingwood...not the brightest.

 

[Robertio]

Still no argument offered to show the Blues were better than Collingwood in 2024, fred needs a title edit.



Well in 2024, it was the 'Pies leading the Blues at full time. Twice.

Play on .

 

[doppleganger]

I'm 8 beers into my Christmas party kenty, I'm not reading this bollocks

Enjoy your beers

 

[Worm4]

Meanwhile, at Carlton....

'We really don't want to start the season off playing a strong interstate team at their home ground, so can you please excuse us from Opening Round, and ensure our first game is against a team of 18 year olds who are $1.05 for the wooden spoon?

Two further games in the next 5 rounds against the other bottom 3 teams from 2024 would be much appreciated too, thanks.

The cheque's in the mail.'

 

[Noidnadroj]

The bottom line is that you need players who can hit the scoreboard.

The fact that you focussed on a team's top 3 goalkickers is flawed.

Who cares whether you have 6 players kick a bulk of your team's goals, with 1 player kicking 35% of them and the others shared amongst the other 5, or you have a more even spread across all 6 players.

The fact a team has more avenues to goal and aren't as reliant on one or two main goalkickers should be seen as a positive. It certainly hasn't hindered Collingwood, who have contended for the flag in 4 of the past 7 years, without having a 50 plus goal a year forward in any of that time.

I never said 50+. I said 40+:

Since 1990, here is the number of players each Premier and Runners Up has to have kicked 40+:

Pies: 1
Bombers: 1

Eagles: 2
Hawks: 4

Eagles: 1
Cats: 3

Bombers: 2
Blues : 2

Eagles: 2
Cats: 1

Blues: 2
Cats: 3

North: 1
Sydney: 1

Adel: 1
Saints: 3

Adel: 2
North: 2

North: 1
Carlton: 1

Essendon: 2
Melbourne: 2

Lions: 2
Essendon: 1

Lions: 2
Pies: 0
(Rocca and Tarrant 38, Fraser 37)

Lions: 1
Pies: 2

Port: 1
Lions : 3

Sydney:2
Eagles: 0
(Matera 38)

Eagles : 1
Sydney: 2

Geelong: 2
Port: 2

Hawks: 3
Cats: 2

Cats: 2
Saints: 3

Pies: 1
Saints: 1

Cats: 2
Pies: 1

Swans: 1
Hawks: 3

Hawks: 4
Freo: 1

Hawks: 3
Swans: 1

Hawks: 4
Eagles: 3

Dogs: 2
Swans: 1

Tigers: 1
Adel: 3

Eagles: 2
Pies: 2

Tigers: 1
GWS: 2

Tigers: 2
Cats: 1
*30+ as shortened games and season

Demons: 2
Dogs: 2

Cats: 3
Swans: 2

Pies: 1
Lions: 3

Lions: 2
Swans: 2

So not a single Premier has not had a 40+ goal kicker: And only 2 times has a runners up not had a 40+ goal kicker.

So I’d say if you don’t have anyone kick 40+ you are not winning the flag…. The last team to win a flag without a 40+ goal kicker was Richmond in 1973 (Royce Hart averaged 2.67 goals but only played 12 games. In fact they had 5 x players average 2+ but none played enough games to get 40+ goals).

So which played are genuinely capable of 40+ for the Pies in 2025? For me it’s Mihocek and Elliott. But at 32yo it’s hard to see this happening. Maybe Bobby Hill or Schulz can step up? There are huge questions.

But if you think half a dozen players kicking 20-35 goals lets you contend history says it’s not gonna happen.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[carlton_99]

So not a single Premier has not had a 40+ goal kicker: And only 2 times has a runners up not had a 40+ goal kicker.

So I’d say if you don’t have anyone kick 40+ you are not winning the flag…. The last team to win a flag without a 40+ goal kicker was Richmond in 1973 (Royce Hart averaged 2.67 goals but only played 12 games. In fact they had 5 x players average 2+ but none played enough games to get 40+ goals).

That's one of the craziest stats I've heard

 

[Worm4]

Enjoy your beers

8 beers - I'd be in bed i reckon

 

[JustaBattler]

8 beers - I'd be in bed i reckon

harden up!

 

[JustaBattler]

Yes, because we NEVER hear excuses from Carlton supporters...

Oh stop your whining already - just admit Carlton were cursodly unlucky with injuries in 2024 otherwise #17 was in hand - whilst Collingwood descended to expected middling territory after a fluky flag ...

 

[Fadge]

Oh stop your whining already - just admit Carlton were cursodly unlucky with injuries in 2024 otherwise #17 was in hand - whilst Collingwood descended to expected middling territory after a fluky flag ...

Good point.

If not for their cursed run with injury over the past 3 years, they would have won them all and be eyeing of #20 in 2025.

They want for nothing, have everything they need, just even luck with injury and they'll dominate the competition in 2025.

No need to improve their list or game plan at all.

 

[JustaBattler]

Good point.

If not for their cursed run with injury over the past 3 years, they would have won them all and be eyeing of #20 in 2025.

They want for nothing, have everything they need, just even luck with injury and they'll dominate the competition in 2025.

No need to improve their list or game plan at all.

Now you are starting to think straight., but let me correct a couople of minor errors

1. I think Carlton was unlucky in 23/24 no doubt about injuries being the major contributor here
2. Given just an average 2ndKPD and just an average small forward - Ithink teh list is pretty stacked - they are still missing although wont hurt enough to give the comp a shake in 2025
3. Game plans can only improve with personel available- teh carlton lsiut is improving every year - so expect to see some tweek-but dont expect to see a change in the brutal contested style voss facours over the joe the gose fluky rubbish that has been popularised by mcFly or whatever his name at Collingwod is and then quickly deconstucted and dismantled by coaches in 2024 hence no finals for your mob.

Apart from that you are on teh right track and stareting to see things clearly - well done.!

 

[Sully111]

St Kilda

 

[Arr0w]

Meanwhile, at Carlton....

'We really don't want to start the season off playing a strong interstate team at their home ground, so can you please excuse us from Opening Round, and ensure our first game is against a team of 18 year olds who are $1.05 for the wooden spoon?

Two further games in the next 5 rounds against the other bottom 3 teams from 2024 would be much appreciated too, thanks.

The cheque's in the mail.'

Damn that's salty

 

[Worm4]

Damn that's salty

Extra salt, but why worry about the fixture in December ? Hear about the fixture on a daily basis and it's coming from the same group of people

 

[Arr0w]

Only a Carlton supporter would think that assessing fixture difficulty in December 2024 for the 2025 season would be better and more accurate than assessing it after we have actually seen how well each of the teams perform in 2025.

Carlton supporters.... they are a very special breed.

Predictions made prior to draw, predictions confirmed after draw, whinging starts end of H&A

Same this year, thinking you have setup some get out clause when we don't finish 13th or lower and expect the rest of BF to just nod and go okaaaaay

View attachment images-30.mp4

 

[JustaBattler]

Extra salt, but why worry about the fixture in December ? Hear about the fixture on a daily basis and it's coming from the same group of people

they are clearly fix ated.

 

[Worm4]

they are clearly fix ated.

It's disturbing that they don't realise that we play Richmond season opener most years, no different to Collingwood playing Essendon on Anzac day. It just is what it is.
Even funnier, tigers beat up on us for a very long time and a lot of posters loved it , now the tables are turned and its an issue. Oh boy

 

[Fadge]

It's disturbing that they don't realise that we play Richmond season opener most years, no different to Collingwood playing Essendon on Anzac day. It just is what it is.
Even funnier, tigers beat up on us for a very long time and a lot of posters loved it , now the tables are turned and its an issue. Oh boy

The thing is, both Richmond and Carlton spend most of their existence as cannon fodder for most teams in the competition, so on the odd occasion that one of the teams is half decent, they start with a gimme 4 points and percentage booster.

It would be like a player in the Masters starting their first round with their ball placed 20 feet from the pin - if they hole it they start 3 under, miss they start 2 under, whilst the other players tee off from the regular tee and start with a birdie at best, whilst some will start with a bogey or double.

 

[Worm4]

The thing is, both Richmond and Carlton spend most of their existence as cannon fodder for most teams in the competition, so on the odd occasion that one of the teams is half decent, they start with a gimme 4 points and percentage booster.

It would be like a player in the Masters starting their first round with their ball placed 20 feet from the pin - if they hole it they start 3 under, miss they start 2 under, whilst the other players tee off from the regular tee and start with a birdie at best, whilst some will start with a bogey or double.

So you're saying Collingwood will lose against GWS and its not fair because Richmond or Carlton will be above them too early ? Too bad so sad