Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody? - Part 2 -

[happy_eagle]

A bullet doesn't care if you're a man or a woman, a president or a pleb

Americans have been doing it since 1865, try to keep up

Perhaps you need these guys

 

[barreness]

Perhaps you need these guys

I never got magicians, probably lack of intelligence

 

[swingdog]

So asking if men or women are better at providing physical protection from threats is a loaded question because there's only 1 answer and it proves my point?

Thanks for pointing that out.

You're digging down, not up.

Try and think about the 'loaded question' and how I raised it initially.

 

[Cap]

Sorry, this was too obvious.

That movie was great, but they'll be complaining about DEI in the world.

 

[Kappa]

Considering most aspects of physical protection are 'locate and identify threats', 'jump in front of your VIP and take a bullet for them' or 'shoot someone' I'm really not sure where being a meathead comes into it, other than having to physically restrain someone violent.

In case you were not aware, 'physically restraining someone' likely amounts to a tiny fraction of what a Secret Service agent does.

Just so you know some of the best operators in the SASR were the smaller blokes. We had our fair share of meatheads, but they were more often then not the trouble makers who couldn't add 2 and 2 together, and were basically toxic dickheads.

Ben Roberts Smith being a prime example.

Were there a lot of women in the SASR?

As I said before, the front line secret service agents physically tackle people a hell of a lot more than they shoot people. It's primarily the CAT team and snipers that will shoot people. The front line agents are basically human shields.

There are also other people who's main job is to identify threats, they have a surveillance team.

Do you think it's weird there are no old secret service agents? considering Bigfooty keeps telling me that physical abilities are not important...

 

[Chief]

Bigfooty keeps telling me that physical abilities are not important...

Nobody said that. Stop being a freak.

 

[Malifice]

Were there a lot of women in the SASR?

No, because the restrictions on women in frontline combat roles has only recently been relaxed, and there wouldnt be many that could succesfully pass the selection course.

For the record not many blokes pass it either. Out of around 100 that attempt it each course, usually less than 10 are successful.

As I said before, the front line secret service agents physically tackle people a hell of a lot more than they shoot people. It's primarily the CAT team and snipers that will shoot people. The front line agents are basically human shields.

Yeah, and you don't need to be strong to be able to ID a potential shooter, and jump in front of a bullet.

You would need strength to physically bring down someone with your bare hands, but seeing as you're never alone and there are half a dozen other agents with you virtually at all times, it's not exactly a critical component of the role.

There are also other people who's main job is to identify threats, they have a surveillance team.

They're agents as well, just like the snipers, the investigators, and the analysts.

And when you're working in a CPP role, you're always identifying threats to the VIP. It's your one constant.

Do you think it's weird there are no old secret service agents? considering Bigfooty keeps telling me that physical abilities are not important...

No-one is telling you physical strength is not important.

We're telling you you're placing some kind of overinflated importance on physical strength in pursuit of validation of your own ideological bias.

Stop it and instead debate in good faith.

For example I asked you if a woman with an IQ of 200, a PHD from University, capable of running a sub 3 hour marathon, and the ability to deadlift 300kgs would meet your standards.

If you were being objective, the simple answer from you would have been 'Yes'.

The thing is, you're not being objective. Notwithstanding this hypothetical woman's outstanding qualifications (unmatched by any existing secret service agent in the real world), you're excluding her because she's a woman.

Be better.

 

[Kappa]

No, because the restrictions on women in frontline combat roles has only recently been relaxed, and there wouldnt be many that could succesfully pass the selection course.

For the record not many blokes pass it either. Out of around 100 that attempt it each course, usually less than 10 are successful.



Yeah, and you don't need to be strong to be able to ID a potential shooter, and jump in front of a bullet.

You would need strength to physically bring down someone with your bare hands, but seeing as you're never alone and there are half a dozen other agents with you virtually at all times, it's not exactly a critical component of the role.



They're agents as well, just like the snipers, the investigators, and the analysts.

And when you're working in a CPP role, you're always identifying threats to the VIP. It's your one constant.



No-one is telling you physical strength is not important.

We're telling you you're placing some kind of overinflated importance on physical strength in pursuit of validation of your own ideological bias.

Stop it and instead debate in good faith.

For example I asked you if a woman with an IQ of 200, a PHD from University, capable of running a sub 3 hour marathon, and the ability to deadlift 300kgs would meet your standards.

If you were being objective, the simple answer from you would have been 'Yes'.

The thing is, you're not being objective. Notwithstanding this hypothetical woman's outstanding qualifications (unmatched by any existing secret service agent in the real world), you're excluding her because she's a woman.

Be better.

Actually I said your theoretical superwomen would be able to join, but don't let facts get in the way of your snappy little quip.

"it's not a critical part of the role" ummm.. one day it could absolutely be, which is why every secret service agent should be exceptional in all aspects, INCLUDING the physical aspects.

Do you think there should be gender quotas in the SASR?

Yes, they are agents as well. I'll repeat myself, I'm talking about front line agents who protect the president. As I said before, other roles in the secret service including surveillance, intelligence ect of course should have qualified women in the role.

 

[Malifice]

"it's not a critical part of the role" ummm.. one day it could absolutely be, which is why every secret service agent should be exceptional in all aspects, INCLUDING the physical aspects.

So what should be the 'physical aspect' threshold for entry for a Secret Service agent then?

Leaving aside any other minimum standards, how 'strong' should a potential agent be?

Lets use 'Max bench press' as a starting point. Give me a figure.

Do you think there should be gender quotas in the SASR?

No.

I think the role requires certain (high level) physical, mental and personal attributes. If a person can display those attributes, they're eligible, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference or whatever.

The same should apply to Secret Service agents. Which is why I keep asking you to define those attributes.

You seem to want to focus on 'physical strength' as a core component of the role of a Secret Service special agent (despite 'physical strength' only being relevant in situations where you have to physically restrain a threat, which really is not a core component of the role at all, especially in the context of tazers, pepper spray existing and in the context of the fact you're never alone in the role).

But fine. Lets start with 'physical strength'.

How much should a potential agent be able to deadlift or bench press in order to be eligible for selection in your view?

Give me a figure.

 

[happy_eagle]

But what if the women give all their "girl germs" to the male agents

 

[Kappa]

So what should be the 'physical aspect' threshold for entry for a Secret Service agent then?

Leaving aside any other minimum standards, how 'strong' should a potential agent be?

Lets use 'Max bench press' as a starting point. Give me a figure.



No.

I think the role requires certain (high level) physical, mental and personal attributes. If a person can display those attributes, they're eligible, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference or whatever.

The same should apply to Secret Service agents. Which is why I keep asking you to define those attributes.

You seem to want to focus on 'physical strength' as a core component of the role of a Secret Service special agent (despite 'physical strength' only being relevant in situations where you have to physically restrain a threat, which really is not a core component of the role at all, especially in the context of tazers, pepper spray existing and in the context of the fact you're never alone in the role).

But fine. Lets start with 'physical strength'.

How much should a potential agent be able to deadlift or bench press in order to be eligible for selection in your view?

Give me a figure.

I would get all the applicates, assess them on personality, mental, physical tests. Give them all a ranking based on whoever scored the highest, then select the highest scoring candidates overall depending on how many positions are available.

Best of the best.

 

[Chief]

I would get all the applicates, assess them on personality, mental, physical tests. Give them all a ranking based on whoever scored the highest, then select the highest scoring candidates overall depending on how many positions are available.

Best of the best.

What if only the dregs apply? Then you are selecting the best of the worst.

 

[Kappa]

What if only the dregs apply? Then you are selecting the best of the worst.

Okay, fair point, I'll get back to u with a thorough testing matrix and minimum standards for all aspects of the test. Just in case only criminals and old men apply

 

[Chief]

It just sounds like my Chuck Norris-based system anyway.

 

[peetoo]

Just mandate less tall presidential candidates

 

[ShanDog]

Noooooooo keep going

I really enjoy the conversations made up of people who get all their subject matter knowledge from movies and video games

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Okay, fair point, I'll get back to u with a thorough testing matrix and minimum standards for all aspects of the test. Just in case only criminals and old men apply

How you gonna find someone that's stronger and more intelligent than Trump?

 

[Chief]

Just mandate less tall presidential candidates

Or at least make them remove their shoes to drop 3 inches.

 

[Malifice]

Okay, fair point, I'll get back to u with a thorough testing matrix and minimum standards for all aspects of the test. Just in case only criminals and old men apply

I dont want a thorough testing matrix.

We can assume the differences in women and men mentally are the same or negligible outside of EQ (where women tend to score higher) and strength (where men tend to score higher).

I assume that if 100 people apply, you assess them in 'Strength' (among other attributes such as endurance, intelligence, perception, education, problem solving etc).

Under your method, assume a candidate scores highly in the other scores (they're an elite endurance athlete, with an IQ of 175, a master's in criminology and law from Harvard, are a crack shot, and have 5 years' exemplarity investigative experience as a Detective), but test mediocre in Strength being barely able to bench press 75kgs (so average strength).

Are you saying you would exclude that candidate?

A Yes or No will suffice.

 

[Engimal v3]

I dont want a thorough testing matrix.

We can assume the differences in women and men mentally are the same or negligible outside of EQ (where women tend to score higher) and strength (where men tend to score higher).

I assume that if 100 people apply, you assess them in 'Strength' (among other attributes such as endurance, intelligence, perception, education, problem solving etc).

Under your method, assume a candidate scores highly in the other scores (they're an elite endurance athlete, with an IQ of 175, a master's in criminology and law from Harvard, are a crack shot, and have 5 years' exemplarity investigative experience as a Detective), but test mediocre in Strength being barely able to bench press 75kgs (so average strength).

Are you saying you would exclude that candidate?

A Yes or No will suffice.

Is that candidate a man or a woman? I can answer for Kappa.

 

[sr36]

I would get all the applicates, assess them on personality, mental, physical tests. Give them all a ranking based on whoever scored the highest, then select the highest scoring candidates overall depending on how many positions are available.

Best of the best.

Then without knowing how any of the current secret service owuld test - why are you carrying on about there not being a 100% male quota of secret service?

 

[Kappa]

Then without knowing how any of the current secret service owuld test - why are you carrying on about there not being a 100% male quota of secret service?

There shouldn't be a male quota, there also shouldn't be a female quota, and the head of the SS openly speaks about targeting more women and getting to 30% women.

One of the SS protecting Trump on the front line was about 5'6, overweight and close to 50. She would score quite low on the physical side of the test and I wouldn't put her in the best of the best category, I think her being female had a role in her getting the job, which the head of the SS is proud about.

That's without even mentioning her inability to holster her gun and the total panic she was displaying.

The head of the SS is also clearly incompetent, but that's another issue.

 

[stefcep]

OK, give me your criterion for who fits in the 'best of the best'?

How strong/ smart do they have to be, what are their education standards etc?

Should a woman be allowed in the secret service if she can deadlift 250kgs, has a PhD in Quantum Physics, an IQ of 200 and can run a marathon in 2:30?

Would that be enough for you? Or are you looking for a higher standard than that?

No because figments of one's imagination don't meet the criteria that they must be real people.

I'd take one of the two gentlemen below-they look the business.

 

[stefcep]

There shouldn't be a male quota, there also shouldn't be a female quota, and the head of the SS openly speaks about targeting more women and getting to 30% women.

One of the SS protecting Trump on the front line was about 5'6, overweight and close to 50. She would score quite low on the physical side of the test and I wouldn't put her in the best of the best category, I think her being female had a role in her getting the job, which the head of the SS is proud about.

That's without even mentioning her inability to holster her gun and the total panic she was displaying.

The head of the SS is also clearly incompetent, but that's another issue.

Its a symptom of woke madness that people are actually defending someone clearly incompetent just because of their gender. If a male SS agent put that performance in, they would never work again, because no-one else would work with them again.

The world's gone mad.

 

[swingdog]

Its a symptom of woke madness that people are actually defending someone clearly incompetent just because of their gender. If a male SS agent put that performance in, they would never work again, because no-one else would work with them again.

The world's gone mad.

It's all the fault of young people.