Worst Captain Ever

[MaccasNeighbour]

Paul Kelly. Never once saw him lead from the front.

Geez was worried you were serious for a moment there!

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

Isn't the fact that Maxwell and Harley are premiership captains kinda the counter argument to this?

The captain can be anyone. Personally I'd rather it be someone behind the ball, but there are no rules here. It's whoever is the best leader at your club.

I can't quite recall, but was Robert Harvey all that crash-hot as a captain?

Maybe they are the exception to my rule, haha.

Maybe the 'leadership group' concept has minimised the importance of the captains role as an on-field leader, as there are now many leaders. In terms of the captain being in the best few, my thoughts are that it would be hard for a champion player to lookup to and follow someone who isnt an elite such as themselves.

 

[the_interloper]

Richie Vandenberg and Shaun McManus own this thread. Also never rated Ted Whitten as a leader, thought he set a bad example to the rest of the team.

 

[Koki Freelander]

I know this will almost seem like a leading question-many of you will already have shot off to say Maxwell-but who has an opinion on the worst caption of all time? Can be for any reason-whether they were a bad player, bad leader or whatever. Off you go

Outside of the general dipshitery on BigFooty, why the **** would anyone say Maxwell?
Premiership Captain and a fricken all Australian - don't hate the player, hate the game

 

[Koki Freelander]

Wouldn't be the absolute worst but Maxwell has to be up there.

Could have jeopardized his teams finals just because he thought it would be necessary to crack someone unprovoked.

Thug.

Premiership captain - how many of those are there at your club? Reckon there is only about 10 or so in any clubs history

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Outside of the general dipshitery on BigFooty, why the **** would anyone say Maxwell?
Premiership Captain and a fricken all Australian - don't hate the player, hate the game

All-Australian validates nothing.

Premiership captain, on the other hand, is a peak few climb.

Premiership captain - how many of those are there at your club?

2 in his case. One's an absolute champion. The other one abandoned them.

 

[Jade]

Personally i think the captain should be in the top 5 players at the club. The captain needs to be able lift the side by making big plays at important times, not just yelling and pointing to space.

Also, my eyes might be playing tricks on me, but are people on here saying that Nick Maxwell and Ritchie Vandenberg are and were better captains then Wayne Carey and Ben Cousins?

Yeah I agree with this. Not only from being able to lift the side, but also do you seriously want your captain under pressure to maintain the spot in the 22?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

In all seriousness though, I never understood why Barry Hall was made captain beyond possible marketting.

Agreed. He didn't entirely destroy our famous No Dickheads policy, but he certainly punched a few holes in it.

 

[Mark_K]

Cyril Rioli, Probably because he isn't even a captain


But honestly, What do we know what captains do behind the scene?

People like to Shit on Vandenberg for being a limited player and having much more talented guys around him like Crawford/Mitchell/Hodge/Croad a better choice for showing on-field brilliance (which people like to link with captaining a squad) However Vandenberg is a huge reason why Hawthorn went from Party boys who were ok between making a prelim final on sheer talent alone and finishing middle of the road for a while to a hugely professional player group and probably helped Hodge/Mitchell to achieve said standards when they were captain.

Who says Maxwell doesn't do the same?

Agreed.

At that time at Hawthorn, no one was a better leader on and off the field. He set a standard, which has been carried on by Mitchell to Hodge then most likely to Jordan Lewis.

I don't know why their is a notion that the Captain of a club must be one of the best players.

Communication, team mentality, respect & personality would be my basis on who the captain should be, not the B&F winner.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

Agreed.

At that time at Hawthorn, no one was a better leader on and off the field. He set a standard, which has been carried on by Mitchell to Hodge then most likely to Jordan Lewis.

I don't know why their is a notion that the Captain of a club must be one of the best players.

Communication, team mentality, respect & personality would be my basis on who the captain should be, not the B&F winner.

Bingo. Richie Vandenberg was one of the most important leaders in Hawthorn's history, whether people on BigFooty choose to acknowledge it or not. I know he had very limited skills, but his leadership on and off field was A+ grade from all reports.

 

[half_back_flank]

Personally i think the captain should be in the top 5 players at the club. The captain needs to be able lift the side by making big plays at important times, not just yelling and pointing to space.

Also, my eyes might be playing tricks on me, but are people on here saying that Nick Maxwell and Ritchie Vandenberg are and were better captains then Wayne Carey and Ben Cousins?

I wouldn't classify Michael Tuck as a top 5 player at Hawthorn.

But he was the most successful captain ever, go figure.

Playing ability doesn't equal leadership qualities.

 

[LightTower4]

Steve Malaxos.
Not aware of any other Captain who was dropped during a finals series.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

I wouldn't classify Michael Tuck as a top 5 player at Hawthorn.

But he was the most successful captain ever, go figure.

Playing ability doesn't equal leadership qualities.

Not sure about Hawthorn supporters, but i would put Tuck pretty close to top 5 during the 80's. Gun back flanker.

 

[Mancey]

Steve Malaxos.
Not aware of any other Captain who was dropped during a finals series.

Depends who's story you believe, but Woosh was dropped for what would have been his last game in a final against the doggies. Mick maintains he was injured but woosh reckons he could have played

 

[Hit And Rum]

Short memories people. I give you Peter Mann of the Corky Neesham led Fremantle Dockers.

Wikipedia actually sums it up pretty darn well:

In a team with few obvious leaders, Peter Mann was the obvious choice for the captaincy when persistent unavailability for injury saw Ben Allan resign the captaincy in March 1997. In 40 games as captain, Mann never again achieved the high standards of his first two seasons. With the exception of successive dominant 1997 games against the Western Bulldogs at Subiaco in round 16 (13 marks, 4 goals) and Hawthorn at Waverley in round 17 (6 marks, 3 goals), both of which earned two Brownlow medal votes, he was rarely a commanding on field presence. Injury, suspension and poor form frustrated the fans. The coach, Gerard Neesham, was protective. After the 100 point loss in round 15 at Victoria Park against Collingwood, he told the media

"He has been good for us spasmodically during the year, he has just had no luck in running. He has had the worst game he has ever had in his life last week and it can only go up from here. He is a pretty tough critter, even though he is pretty quiet and that shows great resolve. Some of the great leaders of the world have gone to some pretty tough positions – Captain Cook, discovering countries and floating around in the middle of the ocean, and the rest wanted to bail out and go back. It takes great resolve to be a good leader and he has definitely got that. At the moment he just hasn't got good touch."​

​

Another frustrating year followed in 1998. In a team desperate for leadership and marking forwards, Mann was again sporadic. So poor was his form by round 9 that he was dropped from the team for 3 weeks. His comeback match, Fremantle's 8 point victory against Carlton in round 13, was his best for the season, 12 marks and 2 goals. By round 16, with form again waivering, Mann was shifted to defence and remained there until his season, and spell as captain, ended when he broke down in the warm up at the MCG in round 20 against North Melbourne. Relieved of the captaincy, Mann played 7 games in 1999. His final match was Fremantle's record breaking loss against Brisbane at the Gabba in round 20. Delisted in the major list changes at the end of Damian Drum's disastrous first season, Mann nominated for the 2000 preseason draft but was not selected. He played 77 AFL games for Fremantle kicking 88 goals. Overall he played 116 games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mann

The descendants of Cook should have sued Corky...if they could have deciphered his garbled attempt at an excuse for Mann's insipid performances.

 

[LightTower4]

Depends who's story you believe, but Woosh was dropped for what would have been his last game in a final against the doggies. Mick maintains he was injured but woosh
reckons he could have played

I think the difference is that Woosh had a great career as a premiership captain and was at the end of his career.
Malaxos should have been in his prime.

 

[Lord Nicholson]

Speaking of Freo captains, wasn't Fletcher delisted when he was captain?

Damn shame about Allan. Absolute champeen.

 

[half_back_flank]

Not sure about Hawthorn supporters, but i would put Tuck pretty close to top 5 during the 80's. Gun back flanker.

It wasn't as clear cut as Vandenberg/Maxwell but by the late 80's you could find find at least five players better than Tuck.

 

[lihei]

I know this will almost seem like a leading question-many of you will already have shot off to say Maxwell-but who has an opinion on the worst caption of all time? Can be for any reason-whether they were a bad player, bad leader or whatever. Off you go

Gary O'Donnell

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Vanders was a mid-tier player but a far better captain than say Crawf was.

This thread is all about Brad Green.

 

[Partridge]

Buddha Hocking- have never seen a player elected as captain, pull out just before the 1st game, because he wanted to concentrate on his own form. He was a champion player, and later on played like a great captain, but this was bizarre. We then had co-captains in Stoneham and Ablett snr, and many suggested Ablett did not even know the names of most of his teammates, so we had some issues with captaincy back then.

That was the common rumour from very early on in his career. I wouldn't mind betting he wasn't the only footballer in 1985 who wasn't best mates with every player at the club (compare to St.Kilda for instance). It certainly wasn't from 1995 when he shared the captaincy. It didn't affect his form that's for sure, he kicked 122 goals and won a Coleman as co-captain.

 

[Partridge]

I thought this too until i was reminded of Colbert.

Carey was a freakishly good footballer, but was screwing the wife of one of his players.

Colbert on the other hand bailed on the club without leading the team for even a match. and then they came good...

But that has been going on at footy clubs for ever. The only difference is we found out about what Carey and the delightfully slutty Mrs.Stevens were up to.

 

[phill1795]

are you joking you think nathan van berlo is a bad captain yes maybe i agree last year he didnt do anything. but this year he has stepped up his game and has shown he is the deserved person to be captain

 

[j0rdy1]

But he was the most successful captain ever, go figure.

Well when you play a 1000 games it isn't too hard to rack up the flags.

Playing ability wise worst captain would have to be Maxwell think he would struggle to get a game at most clubs. Though I think Brad Green may well be the worst captain of all time, wasn't much competition for captaincy when he got but damn he was shit.

 

[Slattery_20]

Short memories people. I give you Peter Mann of the Corky Neesham led Fremantle Dockers.

Wikipedia actually sums it up pretty darn well:

In a team with few obvious leaders, Peter Mann was the obvious choice for the captaincy when persistent unavailability for injury saw Ben Allan resign the captaincy in March 1997. In 40 games as captain, Mann never again achieved the high standards of his first two seasons. With the exception of successive dominant 1997 games against the Western Bulldogs at Subiaco in round 16 (13 marks, 4 goals) and Hawthorn at Waverley in round 17 (6 marks, 3 goals), both of which earned two Brownlow medal votes, he was rarely a commanding on field presence. Injury, suspension and poor form frustrated the fans. The coach, Gerard Neesham, was protective. After the 100 point loss in round 15 at Victoria Park against Collingwood, he told the media

"He has been good for us spasmodically during the year, he has just had no luck in running. He has had the worst game he has ever had in his life last week and it can only go up from here. He is a pretty tough critter, even though he is pretty quiet and that shows great resolve. Some of the great leaders of the world have gone to some pretty tough positions – Captain Cook, discovering countries and floating around in the middle of the ocean, and the rest wanted to bail out and go back. It takes great resolve to be a good leader and he has definitely got that. At the moment he just hasn't got good touch."​

​

Another frustrating year followed in 1998. In a team desperate for leadership and marking forwards, Mann was again sporadic. So poor was his form by round 9 that he was dropped from the team for 3 weeks. His comeback match, Fremantle's 8 point victory against Carlton in round 13, was his best for the season, 12 marks and 2 goals. By round 16, with form again waivering, Mann was shifted to defence and remained there until his season, and spell as captain, ended when he broke down in the warm up at the MCG in round 20 against North Melbourne. Relieved of the captaincy, Mann played 7 games in 1999. His final match was Fremantle's record breaking loss against Brisbane at the Gabba in round 20. Delisted in the major list changes at the end of Damian Drum's disastrous first season, Mann nominated for the 2000 preseason draft but was not selected. He played 77 AFL games for Fremantle kicking 88 goals. Overall he played 116 games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mann

The descendants of Cook should have sued Corky...if they could have deciphered his garbled attempt at an excuse for Mann's insipid performances.

I think he probably meant the former Carlton/Footscray CHF