Worst Captain Ever

[livnixon9]

Matthew Lloyd.

 

[MiloStedman]

Brent Harvey the worst in recent times.
Poor choice.
Hasnt got a leadership bone in his body.

Accoarding to you...

 

[LightTower4]

Steve Malaxos first played league footy in the WAFL in 1978. He was AA captain in 1984, inaugural WCE club champion in 1987.

Even though he still played WAFL footy for quite a few years later, his prime was definitely not 1990.

Was 29 years old in 1990. Wouldn't say at that age he should have been past it. My point is he was Captain for 1 year and was dropped before a prelim so that would make him a qualifier for this thread.

 

[Hodge is God]

I know this will almost seem like a leading question-many of you will already have shot off to say Maxwell-but who has an opinion on the worst caption of all time? Can be for any reason-whether they were a bad player, bad leader or whatever. Off you go

Stupid way to determine a bad captain.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Hawthorn, 1933. This was the season they reversed their colours, to gold with a brown 'V', and became the Mustard Pots for a year.

Fred Phillips, twice a top-ten finisher in the Brownlow at St.Kilda, was recruited to be captain-coach, but died from blood poisioning in the week before the season kicked off. He sustained a cut to the elbow, which became infected by dye from the new jumper.

Norm Collins, an ex-Fitzroy & Carlton journeyman, had acted as captain twice the previous year, in losses by 123 and 47 points. In the absence of vice-captain Bert Mills, Collins was again appointed to lead the Mustard Pots in Round 9. They lost to Geelong by 109 points. Two months later, in the week before the final round, Collins was found hanged at his home.

In a season that yielded just three wins, Hawthorn managed to get up by narrow margins in the games following the deaths - by 2 points against St.Kilda in the opening round, and by 5 over Essendon in Round 18 to avoid the wooden spoon. It was perhaps fortunate that the club theme songs weren't around at the time; "We're a happy team at Hawthorn" would've been a tough one to belt out.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Hawthorn, 1933. This was the season they reversed their colours, to gold with a brown 'V', and became the Mustard Pots for a year.

Fred Phillips, twice a top-ten finisher in the Brownlow at St.Kilda, was recruited to be captain-coach, but died from blood poisioning in the week before the season kicked off. He sustained a cut to the elbow, which became infected by dye from the new jumper.

Norm Collins, an ex-Fitzroy & Carlton journeyman, was appointed to captain the Mustard Pots in Round 9. They lost to Geelong by 109 points. Two months later, in the week before the final round, Collins was found hanged at his home.

In a season that yielded just three wins, Hawthorn managed to get up by narrow margins in the games following the deaths - by 2 points against St.Kilda in the opening round, and by 5 over Essendon in Round 18 to avoid the wooden spoon. It was perhaps fortunate that the club theme songs weren't around at the time; "We're a happy team at Hawthorn" would've been a tough one to belt out.

That shit is heavy

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Matthew Lloyd.

Nah... singlehandedly pulled his team into the finals in 2009 (in what was basically an elimination final anyway) by sacrificing his own season.

Always knew exactly what to do when all around him were losing or dropping their heads. Had a great ability to know when to lay a bone-shattering bump or tackle (and also when not to), and then execute it.

Won’t be remembered as a great of captaincy, the team’s success won’t allow that... but he was a bloody good on-field leader.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Wouldn't be the absolute worst but Maxwell has to be up there.

Could have jeopardized his teams finals just because he thought it would be necessary to crack someone unprovoked.

Thug.

It’s amazing what passes for thug behaviour these days.

Genuine thugs from days gone would be insulted and offended.

 

[MVP_PaulRoos]

Hard to go past Barry Hall.

The rest of the club should have been looking to him for inspiration and leadership. Instead they were watching him to make sure he didn't do anything stupid. A great player and played a key role in our flag, but not a leader.

The only thing that may have excused Hall, is that he wasn't really the captain. Titles aside, Brett Kirk was our captain. Just like now, titles aside, Jude Bolton is our captain (in my opinion anyway).

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Peter Mann

 

[cash]

Cyril Rioli, Probably because he isn't even a captain


But honestly, What do we know what captains do behind the scene?

People like to Shit on Vandenberg for being a limited player and having much more talented guys around him like Crawford/Mitchell/Hodge/Croad a better choice for showing on-field brilliance (which people like to link with captaining a squad) However Vandenberg is a huge reason why Hawthorn went from Party boys who were ok between making a prelim final on sheer talent alone and finishing middle of the road for a while to a hugely professional player group and probably helped Hodge/Mitchell to achieve said standards when they were captain.

Who says Maxwell doesn't do the same?

what a load of shit.

 

[Gibbke]

Personally i think the captain should be in the top 5 players at the club. The captain needs to be able lift the side by making big plays at important times, not just yelling and pointing to space.

Also, my eyes might be playing tricks on me, but are people on here saying that Nick Maxwell and Ritchie Vandenberg are and were better captains then Wayne Carey and Ben Cousins?

It's all in context - Vandenberg took over a side that was at absolute rock bottom with every issue a footy club could have banging at their door...a massive change in club culture was needed, no better illustrated by the "baffling" (only in the eyes of outsiders) decisions by the club to overlook Ayres, Wallace, Matthews and one or two other supposed perfect fit ex-Hawk great clubmen as coach, and instead choose an unknown in Clarkson who won his spot on an apparently amazing powerpoint presentation. If Hawthorn was going to be reborn, it needed the personnel to go along with it, and they put in a guy who basically took no shit and showed in no uncertain terms exactly what would be tolerated for the team to transform into one that deserved respect - which was something even we supporters at the time questioned the Hawks deserving...!

So is Vandenberg a better captain than those other guys? Totally different scenarios...Vandenberg was never as good as any of these players, even Maxwell...! But cometh the hour...if there was an award for most astute captaincy appointment, the perfect man at the time, this guy wins it by a mile...Shane Crawford, who was captain for several years and won the best AFL captain award previously from the Players Association, gave up his spot for Vandenberg in the belief that this was best for the club...

I instead ask the question would any of these other guys have done for Hawthorn a better job... Cousins and Carey a flat out no, and I'm not familiar enough with Maxwell to comment...! They needed an everyman role model, a sergeant...not a 5-star general young kids couldn't hope to emulate straight away (not far off the scenario Gold Coast have with Gary Ablett currently)...I attribute the rise in Hawthorn's fortunes, from the rebuild in 2005 to the flag in 2008 (which is the most enjoyable ride this club has ever given me - even better than the sheer dominance of the 80's), in part to the influence Richie Vandenberg had on a raw playing group in getting them off to the right start...Hawthorn is the only team ever to bottom out and then win a flag on the back of priority picks in the draft...bottom teams get these picks because they are shit organisations to begin with, and you only have to see the underwhelming record of high draft picks to see the truth in this...these guys turned the team into the juggernaut, which doesn't happen with men of lesser character...

 

[Chewy]

Mustard Pots...

Norm Collins acted as captain twice the previous year, in losses by 123 and 47 points... again appointed to lead in Round 9... lost to Geelong by 109 points. Two months later,... found hanged at his home.

Hawthorn managed to avoid the wooden spoon.

"We're a happy team at Hawthorn" would've been a tough one to belt out.

Wonderful anecdote, Bear


But I still think I'd prefer to have Norm Collins than David effin' Cloke

David Cloke was appointed captain of the Mighty Tigers in 1982, kicked 40 goals and led them to their 7th Grand Final appearance in 16 years. Richmond were equal to Collingwood and Carlton in those days and Cloke was a monster like his youngest son. Unfortunately, the Tigers got done in the GF, but worse was to come. Collingwood waved their cheque book and Cloke took the bait (along with Geoff Raines)

He walked out on the club after one season as skipper. Took the money and ran.

Richmond never really recovered from that. They tried to get even with Collingwood and signed a bunch of their C-graders on A-grade dollars and it wasn't long before they faced bankruptcy. They sacked 7 coaches over the next 10 years and rarely finished out of the bottom 3.

In the 30 years since Cloke left, they've played in no Grand Finals and made the finals just TWICE!! (20 years of Top 8's and only twice they've finished in the top half )

I reckon it's all David Cloke's fault.

Imagine how different things might've been if Cloke and Raines had stayed.

 

[westoz_surfer]

Steve Malaxos.
Not aware of any other Captain who was dropped during a finals series.

Woosha was dropped while captain in a final..... different circumstances perhaps - he was ready to go and the team wanted him to play...but Mick thought he was no good.....

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Hawthorn, 1933. This was the season they reversed their colours, to gold with a brown 'V', and became the Mustard Pots for a year.

Fred Phillips, twice a top-ten finisher in the Brownlow at St.Kilda, was recruited to be captain-coach, but died from blood poisioning in the week before the season kicked off. He sustained a cut to the elbow, which became infected by dye from the new jumper.

Norm Collins, an ex-Fitzroy & Carlton journeyman, had acted as captain twice the previous year, in losses by 123 and 47 points. In the absence of vice-captain Bert Mills, Collins was again appointed to lead the Mustard Pots in Round 9. They lost to Geelong by 109 points. Two months later, in the week before the final round, Collins was found hanged at his home.

In a season that yielded just three wins, Hawthorn managed to get up by narrow margins in the games following the deaths - by 2 points against St.Kilda in the opening round, and by 5 over Essendon in Round 18 to avoid the wooden spoon. It was perhaps fortunate that the club theme songs weren't around at the time; "We're a happy team at Hawthorn" would've been a tough one to belt out.

Jesus!

Thats a pretty darn good example as to why these threads titled "worst (or best) ..... ever" should reallyy be titled "worst ... in our generation"

I have no doubt that the worst captain ever, worst season ever, most dominant season ever, most dominant player ever etc etc etc all took place before every one of us were born

 

[Some Idiot]

Luke Darcy and Matthew Primus had their knees buckle from the weight of captaincy

 

[wc_morty]

After last week. Brent Harvey

I'm not a Darren Glass fan either

 

[Upgrayedd]

After last week. Brent Harvey

I'm not a Darren Glass fan either

May i ask why?

 

[Ron The Bear]

But I still think I'd prefer to have Norm Collins than David effin' Cloke
...

The Cloke name is mud with many Richmond supporters these days, due to the perceived unwholesome influence of Ma and Pa Cloke on their sons' careers, but he was a fearsome player and a worthy leader in the short time he had the job. Fair to say that a 32yo Barry Rowlings didn't fill the hole Cloke left.

 

[mcuzzy]

In this thread: flogs saying which captains were bad even though they have no idea about their leadership skills or what happens behind closed doors

have fun making judgements and assumptions with absolutely no knowledge at all

brb brent harvey is a shit captain because..ermm..he's short...yeah that'll do

 

[MISFITS]

LOL at people suggesting Maxwell or Vandenberg. These guys had total respect from everyone at their football clubs for their selflessness and the way they went about it. Their coaches and teammates never had anything but complimentary words for their leadership.

Vandenberg reluctantly took over as Hawthorn captain in difficult times after the club finished second last in 2004 and nearly imploded. He skippered the side through a transitional period from 2005-06 when they blooded many young players. Vandenberg led the Hawks into the 2007 final series, including a come from behind victory over Adelaide in his penultimate game when he held the that season's All Australian captain Andrew McLeod to 6 just kicks. He left the club in good shape and played a sizable role in the development of the 2008 premiership team.

Maxwell has captained Collingwood for the past 4 seasons and has been a fantastic leader. He embodies good leadership, growing into the role, elevating his game in the process, encouraging teammates, making sure they stick to the team plan and also enabling the younger stars like Swan, Pendlebury, Cloke and Thomas to concentrate on reaching their potential without the added burden and pressure of captaincy.

----------------------

Wayne Carey could be considered a contender for 'worst captain ever'. He was one of the great captains in AFL history, but then it all went out the window and overnight, he became the worst captain ever. The damage was mitigated because he fell on his sword and left the club.

-----------------------

I think the worst captain ever was Ben Cousins. Like Carey, there was a time when he was a great leader and the West Coast players looked up to him and followed him. Unfortunately, he fell in with a crowd of degenerates and he lost his way. Drugs and alcohol affected his judgment. He became a cancer at his football club and eventually dragged the Eagles through the mud. Cousins had been replaced as captain prior to them winning the flag and he was sacked as a player prior to West Coast tumbling down the ladder. But the damage had been done and it had been 3-4 years in the making. A once mighty club went from top of the heap to bottom of the heap in less than 2 seasons.

His own coach and former teammate, John Worsfold felt betrayed by Cousins' actions and he famously said to him "You've wrecked this club"

West Coast fans loved Cousins and even after his fall from grace, they extended him a lot of sympathy, which is understandable. It's nothing personal against Cousins who I met once once in his younger days and found him to be a great guy: humble, engaging and likeable. But you'd be hard-pressed to find a worse captain.

I agree with all accept the Cousins call..
A born leader of men..
Cruel quote to make...(if true)
Worsfold made a bad call making Cousins captain.
A tragic story but Worsfold dug his own grave there. You do know what his day job used to be. Yes a Pharmacist...!!
I wouldn't say that he prescribed drugs to Ben however, lets just say that the whole drugs thing was not an unknown or a surprise after 10 years of abuse.

 

[Gasometer]

How is this thread still here?

 

[goondog]

Boyd?

Bit harsh on Brad considering everything that was going on around the club at the time...

 

[wc_morty]

May i ask why?

Harvey - No captain should do dirty acts like that ever, no excuse
Glass - Great player, definitely an Eagles great but lacks the ability to single-handedly turn a game on it's head. I'm sure he's a great leader blah blah blah I just don't like him all that much. don't have a good reason really. do i need one?

 

[Upgrayedd]

Glass - Great player, definitely an Eagles great but lacks the ability to single-handedly turn a game on it's head. I'm sure he's a great leader blah blah blah I just don't like him all that much. don't have a good reason really. do i need one?

Well if you want your opinion known (which you do posting it) well....Yeah.

Glass is one eagle who is hardly ever beaten in his position, an absolute professional off-field and something that the Eagles needed after the 2006 when some off-field issues threatened to hurt the club. He's always in peak shape, maintains himself perfectly and you wont see him passed out naked on a bench anytime soon. Also he's a damn fine player

And to say Glass lacks ability to turn games on his head, Do you count curtaining dangerous forwards? He rarely gets beaten and does more then most backmen are asked to when playing guys like Franklin/Riewoldts ect. In my time i've never seen a forward unless he was getting unlimited supply (see Derby this year) absolutly belt the eagles on their own brilliance,

Im getting the idea people are trying to say "captains should lead by example" Leading by example isnt kicking 4 goals from the midfield and dragging your team over the line, if your captains required to do this he's probably playing in a team of duds (See Ablett) and is not even half of what being a captain is.