Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[T2B_]

I had neutral supporters messaging me during the game mentioning how good he was now.

I thought he was one of the few real positives from the game.

Had 19 pos 6 tackles and a goal. Kicked 2 goals but for a snick on the post and could have easily had 4.

After last week I was with you but those are pretty unprecedented numbers from a Carlton small forward. He competed really hard.

It's a fair point. His lairising stuff like the attempted trap with his feet instead of picking it up properly can be frustrating, but overall he did really try.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

As much as Silvagni gives us a contest up forward, his kicking for goal is up there with early Spalding days. It's putrid. And twice last night when he missed basic shots, Hawks swept the ball up and scored goals immediately. 2 x 11 point turnarounds and there's your ball game right there.

Secondly, there's a massive disconnect between forwards, and the rest of the team. Again, if the game plan is to kick it long to Curnow, who was clearly not right and getting beaten, why does not plan B kick in and have the ball carriers look for better options ? Hawks had runners screaming forward all game, we had barely none. It's just dumb.

Lastly, given the conditions, I don't think McKay would have made any difference to last night's result. We had the 8 worst players on the ground according to AFL.com and it showed. A few of those guys need to have a good hard look at their form otherwise it time to bring in some other players who can bring in some more effort.
Hawks bottom 6 killed us last night

this.

Heads must roll...

 

[SirSanchez]

This below quote from Voss’s presser is infuriating. Enough is enough. Stop letting the players think close enough is good enough. These close and honourable losses are still losses. We are nowhere near it. But the players who underperformed again last night will think it’s ok and they’ll get another game next week. No accountability no winning mindset. Weak.

"They turned up the intensity a bit and asked some questions, but jeez I'm still happy with our fight," Voss said.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Groundhog Day

WHY do we continually bomb it long inside forward 50? For three years the same thing over and over.

Even worse with a smaller forward line.

The difference of ball use between us and Hawks was stark. They hit targets and kick it to advantage. We blaze away. They also run tonight spots, they are so well drilled. Impressive

Can’t question effort last night but we play dumb football again and again

I just don’t get it

Our players lack confidence & most importantly, skill.

Our best kickers are out, Harry had a cold, Charlie underdone.

We lost by 20 - it could have been much worse.

We stepped in the right direction but it’s definately on the back of grinding our way to goal.

I think we’ll win next week & confidence will keep building.

I love the way Hawthorn use their hands, in stoppages, in congestion & transition.

Overlap running to support - our ball movement is a bit kick & hope at the moment.

 

[17in25]

We were not that far off it last night.
Effort was there. We “rugby” it forward.
The issue is poor system and inability to execute basic football skills under pressure.
It’s so rare that our boys look fluid and connected transitioning from defence.
This team lacks confidence and belief in what it is doing.
We will win as many games as we lose just on top end talent but we are not a top 4 side.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

It's a fair point. His lairising stuff like the attempted trap with his feet instead of picking it up properly can be frustrating, but overall he did really try.

Have to agree that had he kicked 3.1 or 4.0 they would be feting him like Watson...

Too many bad misses on the night - JSOS and TDK spring to mind....

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

We were not that far off it last night.
Effort was there. We “rugby” it forward.
The issue is poor system and inability to execute basic football skills under pressure.
It’s so rare that our boys look fluid and connected transitioning from defence.
This team lacks confidence and belief in what it is doing.
We will win as many games as we lose just on top end talent but we are not a top 4 side.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

if Hollands off the HBF is our best option, we are in serious trouble!

 

[Blueing]

WARNING very unpopular opinion incoming ..

Come end of the year we need to make some serious list changes to put us in contention/sure up our future.

Trade Charlie .. has to be one of the biggest flat track bullies to pull on the jumper. For the life of me I cannot understand the hype around this bloke. Doesn't chase, sooks it up and won 2 Coleman medals off the back of beating up ordinary sides like North and West Coast. Whilst there is still hype around him, get him off the books, pick up 2 first round picks and sure up the future.

I said it before, let TDK go, now that he has worth, get 2 top draft picks for him, we have Jagga, Camporeale twins, Andrew Walkers son is going to be a gem we have the fundamentals to build around them, and we have bank!!

 

[CCurnow3votes]

if Hollands off the HBF is our best option, we are in serious trouble!

He’s better in a wing & we miss his run.

Thought he was solid last night.

 

[Soapy V]

if Hollands off the HBF is our best option, we are in serious trouble!

I don’t get criticism of Hollands last night

Had job on Moore and kept him quiet. Great job. Did what he was told

 

[Blue__Balls]

My take - there is no longer any validity in holding kids out of the side on the basis that "they're not ready to impact for 4 quarters". We barely have 5 blokes who do that as is. Anyone want to genuinely try and argue that Charlie did more than Moir could have done?

Play the kids based on what they will be, not what they are now. Manage them if needed. 16 AFL games for Moir and half a dozen weeks off to rest scattered throughout is going to do more for him than 20 VFL games and 2 runs as the AFL sub.

Once Carroll is available again, pick him. Same deal, 15+ games the target. Wilson and B Campo, 10+. Get Young the **** out of the side and rotate Lemmey and HOK through there. There ain't a lot of developing youth on the list - we've built this group to contend now, with a stack of mature depth players occupying spots 16-35. The group are showing they're not up for it though, so we need to make the most of the kids we do have - if they're squeezed through lack of development and opportunity in the next 12-18 months then we'll be looking at another fire sale and bottoming out as Tassie are coming in.

Finally - Doc is done. Done. That dropped mark was a major "footsteps" moment, and he's always been a player whose value lies in courage and effort over skill. Can't hide him on the outside and feed him easy ball, he just gives it back. So if he's not even able to sit under a high ball any more then his "heart and soul" value is shot - in fact, he's providing the opposite. How deflating for the team to finally get a fast break, and one of our most senior players drops the easiest of uncontested marks 50 out from goal, gifting the ball back to the opposition who just love to go coast to coast.

 

[RiCHii]

I said it before, let TDK go, now that he has worth, get 2 top draft picks for him, we have Jagga, Camporeale twins, Andrew Walkers son is going to be a gem we have the fundamentals to build around them, and we have bank!!

Isn't he a free agent?

So will we have to rely on the AFL's chook lotto formula for compensation?

 

[Benaly28]

Curnow across half back?

Who are we kicking it to if we win the ball.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Hawks pressure was huge all night. Competition-leading stuff. If we'd played like we did last week we'd have lost by 10+ goals. Instead it was a ~3 goal margin, and that after giving up a goal inside the first minute of all but one quarter and missing out on multiple goals of our own by a matter of centimetres.

It's not good enough yet, but after last week it's a clear step in the right direction.

That said, there are some players who desperately need to either step up or have a stint in the VFL.

Get one of Charlie or Harry (both ideally) playing decent footy and I reckon that match has a different outcome....

Even with a terrible game plan.

 

[Opium]

Groundhog Day

WHY do we continually bomb it long inside forward 50? For three years the same thing over and over.

Even worse with a smaller forward line.

The difference of ball use between us and Hawks was stark. They hit targets and kick it to advantage. We blaze away. They also run to the right spots, they are so well drilled. The way they block, shepherd and create space for each other is brilliant. Impressive

Can’t question effort last night but we play dumb football again and again

I just don’t get it. We simply aren’t a good football side

Look at Charlie's heat map.
This is all on the coach I'm afraid.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Hawthorn won because they have skills, speed and a system..... We're slow, poorly skilled and have no system outside of bombing it and hoping for the best.

yes and no.

We kicked 2.8 in H2, kick 6.4 (AFL average conversion) and.....

 

[Soapy V]

Look at Charlie's heat map.
This is all on the coach I'm afraid.

Compete??? FFS some of his efforts were embarrassing

 

[windows1]

Groundhog Day

WHY do we continually bomb it long inside forward 50? For three years the same thing over and over.

Even worse with a smaller forward line.

The difference of ball use between us and Hawks was stark. They hit targets and kick it to advantage. We blaze away. They also run to the right spots, they are so well drilled. The way they block, shepherd and create space for each other is brilliant. Impressive

Can’t question effort last night but we play dumb football again and again

I just don’t get it. We simply aren’t a good football side

I think pace makes us bomb it. They get under pressure because they can’t get any separation before they kick. Teams like the hawks flick it until they give it to someone quick and skilled.

We just never recruit those players. I can’t think of a single one of them on the list.

 

[Opium]

Curnow across half back?

Who are we kicking it to if we win the ball.

Motlop in the air.

 

[Horizon]

We are cooked. I’ve been waiting for these guys to kick into gear for 5 years.

At times we were close and had a brief glimpse of what it could have been like but it’s time to face facts that we are a fringe top 8 team.

Same problems game after game year after year. What’s worse is either we lose a close one when we really were severely outplayed and the few games where we dominate.

Hawks ran all over us last night. Defense pressure in own 50 is weak sauce. Players defending empty paddock.

3 or 4 players propping us up every week.

Hoping we have a good season but looking grim.

Get the scythe out and start cutting

 

[BeijingBlue]

Our players lack confidence & most importantly, skill.

Our best kickers are out, Harry had a cold, Charlie underdone.

We lost by 20 - it could have been much worse.

We stepped in the right direction but it’s definately on the back of grinding our way to goal.

I think we’ll win next week & confidence will keep building.

I love the way Hawthorn use their hands, in stoppages, in congestion & transition.

Overlap running to support - our ball movement is a bit kick & hope at the moment.

Kick and hope as been the "plan" ever since Voss arrived.

 

[BlueSuede]

My take - there is no longer any validity in holding kids out of the side on the basis that "they're not ready to impact for 4 quarters". We barely have 5 blokes who do that as is. Anyone want to genuinely try and argue that Charlie did more than Moir could have done?

Play the kids based on what they will be, not what they are now. Manage them if needed. 16 AFL games for Moir and half a dozen weeks off to rest scattered throughout is going to do more for him than 20 VFL games and 2 runs as the AFL sub.

Once Carroll is available again, pick him. Same deal, 15+ games the target. Wilson and B Campo, 10+. Get Young the **** out of the side and rotate Lemmey and HOK through there. There ain't a lot of developing youth on the list - we've built this group to contend now, with a stack of mature depth players occupying spots 16-35. The group are showing they're not up for it though, so we need to make the most of the kids we do have - if they're squeezed through lack of development and opportunity in the next 12-18 months then we'll be looking at another fire sale and bottoming out as Tassie are coming in.

Finally - Doc is done. Done. That dropped mark was a major "footsteps" moment, and he's always been a player whose value lies in courage and effort over skill. Can't hide him on the outside and feed him easy ball, he just gives it back. So if he's not even able to sit under a high ball any more then his "heart and soul" value is shot - in fact, he's providing the opposite. How deflating for the team to finally get a fast break, and one of our most senior players drops the easiest of uncontested marks 50 out from goal, gifting the ball back to the opposition who just love to go coast to coast.

I'm with you here. I think it is time to refresh the time.

And it is not a 'rebuild' version of 'play the kids'. It is more the case that I don't see how the names you mention could be worse than half a dozen others out there at the moment. Best case scenario, they bring a new energy and we find some gems. Worst case scenario would probably just be a version of what we're already doing.

 

[T2B_]

Compete??? FFS some of his efforts were embarrassing

Built like a brick outhouse or however the saying goes, but literally saw him just fall over in a body contest. Was just a liability last night.

 

[Soapy V]

I think pace makes us bomb it. They get under pressure because they can’t get any separation before they kick. Teams like the hawks flick it until they give it to someone quick and skilled.

We just never recruit those players. I can’t think of a single one of them on the list.

Interesting watching the Hawks run last night.

When you see both sides just running we keep up.

It’s when they get the ball they all take off and get to positions. Ball user looks up and has options and uses them. They are drilled this way

Their team discipline is very impressive. We look like an amateur team from the 80s the last at we play. No system at all

 

[RPCB]

Curnow across half back?

Who are we kicking it to if we win the ball.

I am moving Saad into the forward line before I am moving Charlie to the backline.