Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[TENACIOUS]

If you think about it…

Surely bombing it out of defence or into our forward line is part of the Voss plan..

Otherwise why has it been unchecked for the past 3 years? And why are Walsh, McGovern, Acres, Docherty, Hewett & Cottrell continuing to get games each week?

 

[thechamps2025]

We aren’t?
Houston wanted to come to us
Petracca wanted to come to us

Did they Houston isn't there and brothers petracca so we can be a great destination or we have blind faith in that we didn't offer up trades Mckay after saying playing in a premiership doesn't define him and he'd still be happy should be traded straight away.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I’m actually shocked at a lot of the comments in this thread.

Hawthorn are looking like one of the best teams in the comp, got a ridiculous armchair ride by the umps while we were molested by the maggots, and the game was close.

With 5 possessions and a single score involvement from a clearly underdone Charlie, and nothing from H.
We hit the post 3 times.

There is so much room for improvement, and we clearly need to improve, but we played an extremely well drilled, highly skilled, fast team, and if we got an even break would have won. If we got +10 free kicks in the first 3 and a half quarters we would have cantered it in.


Unfortunately, we are not well drilled. We have to work so hard for our goals. Hopefully it clicks for us, and we can play closer to our potential. Because we have enough talent, even if it’s uneven.

This is a big problem...

When we move the ball, it's a slog... we're just shoving it forward any way we can from contest to contest.

The question is, why 4 years in with an experienced squad are we doing this?

The Hawks were not great tonight either.

There is zero we can do about the umpiring. It was frustrating as hell tonight... but we've said this for what feels like an eternity... it'll never change... umps will continue to give us a bad run at it... then they'll even the count up when the result is inevitable.

We missed chances tonight, sure, but the fact is we have now won only 2 out of the last 11 games...

Hoping for it to click when Cripps just hit 30, Hewett will hit 30 later this year, Newman at 32 is sorely missed, Doc at 32 is cooked, Saad at 30 is in rapid decline, Williams at 30 also in rapid decline, Gov at 30 as conditional as ever, Haynes at 33 and going to be delisted... isn't going to get us anywhere, these guys are what largely make up our best 22.

We need to make some bold moves this off season.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I agree but they're just better. Maybe with a super fit charlie and Harry things may have been different. I'm a firm believer on defence before attack though. Outside of weiters we are sketchy. Doesn't help with vanilla mids like Walsh and cez

Cerra was pretty good tonight. I thought he used the ball well and was very involved. Walsh keeps taking too much on and it shows in the quality of his disposals. He needs to learn to that he can be effective by having less possessions. He is a selfish footballer and to be fair Cripps was also very selfish tonight.

 

[DamoESP]

Were running them out well .... He forgot to add but other teams are running them out better 7.2 44 to 1.10 16 fatigue impacts scoring 2 games in a row

Its such a stupid answer. Brings out the Inside 50 count and that we had more as if thats some kind of proof we're doing well, meanwhile 90% of those Inside 50's are us bombing it long and high to a 2 on 1 and the ball just being rebounded out of our Forward 50.

This is just totally cooked stuff coming from our coaching staff.

 

[Blue By Blood]

This is a big problem...

When we move the ball, it's a slog... we're just shoving it forward any way we can from contest to contest.

The question is, why 4 years in with an experienced squad are we doing this?

The Hawks were not great tonight either.

There is zero we can do about the umpiring. It was frustrating as hell tonight... but we've said this for what feels like an eternity... it'll never change... umps will continue to give us a bad run at it... then they'll even the count up when the result is inevitable.

We missed chances tonight, sure, but the fact is we have now won only 2 out of the last 11 games...

Hoping for it to click when Cripps just hit 30, Hewett will hit 30 later this year, Newman at 32 is sorely missed, Doc at 32 is cooked, Saad at 30 is in rapid decline, Williams at 30 also in rapid decline, Gov at 30 as conditional as ever, Haynes at 33 and going to be delisted... isn't going to get us anywhere, these guys are what largely make up our best 22.

We need to make some bold moves this off season.

And worryingly most of those older guys in the team a part of our backline. No wonder we can’t cover opposition small forwards getting out the back or leading up.

 

[TerryWallet]

It is blatantly obvious that Michael Voss still vehemently believes that "an easy possession is a weak possession".

I would like to still believe that too. It was the thinking to success in my era, as it was in his.

But alas........contest to contest he remains, and he aint for changing.

What a player he was. What a leader he was/is.

What an elite AFL coach he aint.

He will win games but we aint winning anything playing every game like trench warfare.

 

[WyntersGame_]

The main positive for me tonight was the forward pressure. While there were moments when we were exposed, it was a significant improvement overall.

It’s tough to say, but Docherty really needs to be dropped. You can see what he's trying to do, but his body just isn’t able to execute it anymore.

I didn’t want Haynes in the team today, and I still stand by that decision. Nothing more needs to be said.

I’m also really confused about Cerra. He was a top-tier midfielder, almost A-grade, but now he’s just going through the motions like a journeyman. Is it due to injury issues with his legs, or is it how he’s being coached? I don’t know, but it’s something that needs addressing.

Lastly, Kemp does some nice things, but I don’t see him as a forward. When the ball goes to him in the forward line, I don’t feel confident that it will turn into a scoring opportunity.

 

[Blues2013]

Just watched the presser my god this club is screwed

This is the issue
Is “football” just one performance metric and they think things are fine because they are performing well against all their other non football related KPIs ie memberships etc.
I don’t give a fk about financials and feel good crap - I want on field success

 

[Curnowisagun]

If you think about it…

Surely bombing it out of defence or into our forward line is part of the Voss plan..

Otherwise why has it been unchecked for the past 3 years? And why are Walsh, McGovern, Acres, Docherty, Hewett & Cottrell continuing to get games each week?

I really don't understand comments like this. Sure everyone is frustrated but Hewett had 28 touches and 11 tackles. Hardly our worst, probably top 3 players for us tonight. That aside, take those 6 out of the team, who are you bringing in? Binns, moir, Wilson etc all untried and seemingly not ready for afl football. People suggest dropping players all the time but the reality is next in line is bleak - those players are not ready due to youth or injury and won't be an upgrade on 50% of the output of the guys you have listed. They struggle to perform consistently in the VFL, let alone what the would be able to do at AFL level.

 

[Beyond Blue]

The main positive for me tonight was the forward pressure. While there were moments when we were exposed, it was a significant improvement overall

Agreed it’s just a shame they can’t bring the same intensity every week.

It’s tough to say, but Docherty really needs to be dropped. You can see what he's trying to do, but his body just isn’t able to execute it anymore.

Agreed Doc is done. He should retire at seasons end otherwise we will need to delist him.

I didn’t want Haynes in the team today, and I still stand by that decision. Nothing more needs to be said.

Haynes was a lot better than Gov and Young tonight.

I’m also really confused about Cerra. He was a top-tier midfielder, almost A-grade, but now he’s just going through the motions like a journeyman. Is it due to injury issues with his legs, or is it how he’s being coached? I don’t know, but it’s something that needs addressing.

I thought Cerra played pretty well tonight. Certainly no worse than Walsh who is starting to look like a journeyman.

Lastly, Kemp does some nice things, but I don’t see him as a forward. When the ball goes to him in the forward line, I don’t feel confident that it will turn into a scoring opportunity.

Kemp is under pressure. He’s a failed backman so if he can’t find a niche as a football Im not sure what to do with him next. If there is a cap squeeze to keep TDK I’d be offloading him in a heartbeat.

 

[Beyond Blue]

If you think about it…

Surely bombing it out of defence or into our forward line is part of the Voss plan..

Otherwise why has it been unchecked for the past 3 years? And why are Walsh, McGovern, Acres, Docherty, Hewett & Cottrell continuing to get games each week?

Hewett was our best player tonight IMO

 

[Mr_Plow]

Let's be frank, apart from a few really good players like Weitering, Saad, Cripps, De Koning and a fit Curnow, the team is filled with slow plodders not suitable for modern AFL.

That's on the list managers/drafting team primarily but doesn't absolve the shitty coaching team.

Can't draft any genuine speed and skill, worst small forward group in the league, terribly slow in transition.

Rebuild the list adequately.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

I’m actually shocked at a lot of the comments in this thread.

Hawthorn are looking like one of the best teams in the comp, got a ridiculous armchair ride by the umps while we were molested by the maggots, and the game was close.

With 5 possessions and a single score involvement from a clearly underdone Charlie, and nothing from H.
We hit the post 3 times.

There is so much room for improvement, and we clearly need to improve, but we played an extremely well drilled, highly skilled, fast team, and if we got an even break would have won. If we got +10 free kicks in the first 3 and a half quarters we would have cantered it in.


Unfortunately, we are not well drilled. We have to work so hard for our goals. Hopefully it clicks for us, and we can play closer to our potential. Because we have enough talent, even if it’s uneven.

Hawks rarely got out of second gear.

About the only thing we can do reliably well is throw bodies at a contest...and that worked well enough early. Enough pressure to create some chaos goals and build a small lead. Maybe one goal (Williams) came through a nice passage of play...everything else was graft and grind.

In terms of defensive set up, ball movement and forward entries, they has us well in hand.

 

[Stamos]

Hawks rarely got out of second gear.

About the only thing we can do reliably well is throw bodies at a contest...and that worked well enough early. Enough pressure to create some chaos goals and build a small lead. Maybe one goal (Williams) came through a nice passage of play...everything else was graft and grind.

In terms of defensive set up, ball movement and forward entries, they has us well in hand.

If they had us well in hand (outside the last 8 or so minutes when it was done) why didn’t they manage more scoring shots? Why didn’t they belt us? Why were they only 5 points up at 3/4 time after Doc dropped an uncontested mark?

 

[Blue since 72]

Just watched the first half.

God we play an exhaustive style in general play. We don’t have the skill or pace of a team like the hawks so our pressure must be on the entire game. However the Hawks were hurting from our pressure game.

We need more from Saad. Defensively he’s good in a foot race one on one but once he gets near a contest he gets lost and he regularly loses his man who ends up starting a chain or kicking a goal. I’d like to try a Wilson or Carroll. Not Boyd he doesn’t really have attacking instincts.

The Hawks hand and foot skills combined with pace is just next level so so far we are playing to our strengths and being largely consistent. I do really wish we played a less tiring game in transition and that’s why i believe it starts at half back, we need some polish on the dump kick out if D50.

Give the two young blokes a taste, they may surprise.

Who i noticed:

Crippa
Tdk
George (massive)
Ollie (massive)
Walsh and Cerra grinding away
Haynes (much better)

Gonna watch the second half

 

[thebluenewdeal]

What has undone us in the first two weeks is football security. I can accept skill errors because the game is full of them but we cannot just play hot potato when we are outnumbered. You see an outnumber, go to ground, accept the tackle and set up the stoppage. If you get pinged, hold onto the ball and delay without giving a 50 metre penalty. It’s not rocket science.

Happened more often in the second half of both games so I’m pretty certain this group are way too anxious to start the second halves. They simply aren’t staying present.

I can accept the last quarter today because they beat us fairly. Too good.

However, the 3rd quarter was where we coughed up the ball in outnumbered situations countless of times that ultimately cost us the game.

I don’t want to see it anymore. It’s actually infuriating that Vossy doesn’t even mention it in the presser. No talk about it one bit. No one even asks him about it. It’s clear as day!

 

[Drexl 31]

Voss, great guy, greater player, very poor coach. Please please please pretty please with cherries on top, the sooner the club find a coach, the better. Why waste another season.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

If they had us well in hand (outside the last 8 or so minutes when it was done) why didn’t they manage more scoring shots? Why didn’t they belt us? Why were they only 5 points up at 3/4 time after Doc dropped an uncontested mark?

Conditions helped keep it tight and suited our strengths, and as stated we did relatively well to fashion unfashionable goals.

But Hawks did this much easier than the scoreline suggested.

 

[Wickzki]

Conditions helped keep it tight and suited our strengths, and as stated we did relatively well to fashion unfashionable goals.

But Hawks did this much easier than the scoreline suggested.

Had we not missed the three very gettable shots in the second half that they transitioned down the other end to get goals themselves I wonder what we'd be saying.

The TDK and Silvagni shots were especially frustrating.

 

[RPCB]

As shit as last nights game was, it gets even worse knowing we owe Hawthorn a 1st round draft pick.

You can pretty much kiss finals goodbye at 0-4 or even 1-3. We’ve got games against Geelong, Adelaide, Sydney and GWS in a five week period, and Port, Collingwood, Brisbane, Melbourne, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Gold Coast and Port in 8 of the last 9 rounds. Don’t improve and that draft pick we owe to Hawthorn might end up being a top 6 pick. Oh yeah, and the Hawks also get a 2nd round pick as well.

 

[Worm4]

Had we not missed the three very gettable shots in the second half that they transitioned down the other end to get goals themselves I wonder what we'd be saying.

The TDK and Silvagni shots were especially frustrating.

As much as Silvagni gives us a contest up forward, his kicking for goal is up there with early Spalding days. It's putrid. And twice last night when he missed basic shots, Hawks swept the ball up and scored goals immediately. 2 x 11 point turnarounds and there's your ball game right there.

Secondly, there's a massive disconnect between forwards, and the rest of the team. Again, if the game plan is to kick it long to Curnow, who was clearly not right and getting beaten, why does not plan B kick in and have the ball carriers look for better options ? Hawks had runners screaming forward all game, we had barely none. It's just dumb.

Lastly, given the conditions, I don't think McKay would have made any difference to last night's result. We had the 8 worst players on the ground according to AFL.com and it showed. A few of those guys need to have a good hard look at their form otherwise it time to bring in some other players who can bring in some more effort.
Hawks bottom 6 killed us last night

 

[outabounds]

Imagine entering a fist fight with one hand tied behind your back. That is what is happening to us every time we run out to play. I think this is happening for 3 reasons.

1/ The game plan is a joke or even worse, non existant. Dump kicking and continual lack of imagination with forward entries. This has been a glaring problem for years that just gets overlooked by the coaching staff.

2/ Poor recruiting. The recruiting staff have been unable to recognise that pace and kicking and size are key elements in the modern game. Just going back, some examples included Walsh and Dow ( kicking), Cerra (Pace) and in the case of Elijah Hollands , a lack of due dilligence.

2/ Incredibly poor fitness and injury management. From what I see , Harry, Walsh and Charlie are nowhere near fit and this comes after a disater of a year last year and a history of persisting and paying huge money to injury prone players suchas McGovern and the likes of Martin in the past. I do not believe for one second Harry ws sick last night after watching him last week.

Other teams recognise these issues and make the necessary changes. We just front up with the same predictable plan and players and hope for the best.

 

[David Sylvian]

Just watched the first half.

God we play an exhaustive style in general play. We don’t have the skill or pace of a team like the hawks so our pressure must be on the entire game. However the Hawks were hurting from our pressure game.

We need more from Saad. Defensively he’s good in a foot race one on one but once he gets near a contest he gets lost and he regularly loses his man who ends up starting a chain or kicking a goal. I’d like to try a Wilson or Carroll. Not Boyd he doesn’t really have attacking instincts.

The Hawks hand and foot skills combined with pace is just next level so so far we are playing to our strengths and being largely consistent. I do really wish we played a less tiring game in transition and that’s why i believe it starts at half back, we need some polish on the dump kick out if D50.

Give the two young blokes a taste, they may surprise.

Who i noticed:

Crippa
Tdk
George (massive)
Ollie (massive)
Walsh and Cerra grinding away
Haynes (much better)

Gonna watch the second half

Didn’t watch the second half either, the simple stuff executed badly was frustrating to watch, dropped chest marks, inaccurate kicking off half back and into the fwd 50, pointing at an opponent so someone would man them up while you are guarding a really dangerous patch of grass, etc. Mentally we look “tight” but we seemed to show a modicum of resilience and kept at it.
A poster mentioned our 30yo + brigade and I have to agree, PLAY THE YOUNG TALENT.
It’s a bit like watching explosive porridge at the moment.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Did l hear Voss once say there was no time to work on skills? After tonight we can have a system but if you can't hit a target like the Hawks did no system will work. We cannot hit targets 56,percent by foot. Our biggest possession winners around 50. Not quiet top 8 material.

The canary in the coal mine came from our summer training watchers who declared we did not focus on skills. You will find some great posts dedicated to the topic.