Opinion Heretier Lumumba

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
domus said:
What details? Leon simply said the profile contained racial stereotypes without giving one example. His view of what constitutes a racial stereotype may be very different from another person, even another indigenous person. He should have handed over the profile sheet in question so we all know exactly what he is referencing. That was it as far as the interview went.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty confident in Leon Davis being able to identify racial stereotypes of indigenous Australians.

Why should he hand over something that he is very unlikely to have kept? What purpose would it serve. So bigfooty posters can form a panel of judgement on the guilt of the culprits and the appropriateness of Leon's feelings?

He makes it very clear in that interview that for him it isn't about the incident or looking to haul culprits over the coals like so many want to do, it's about the club handling the incident badly at the time and more recently not having looked to rectify past mistakes and the scars they've caused. It's about fixing the club's response to racism to make the future better.

It's a given that there were racist incidents that occurred involving Collingwood - we previously knew of some very high profile ones. And it's been a part of Australian life for our history, so only a fool would think it's unlikely that there have been many more during the history of our football club - as there have been in all companies, albeit less in companies that had the ability or want to handle matters effectively.

Companies can't ensure that an employee doesn't behave in a racially offensive manner - they can only ensure that they do their best to prevent and respond to issues effectively when they occur. This whole thing is about reducing the prevalence of racism within the organisation and the harm it causes if it occurs. It's not a witch hunt so that we can sit in judgement on either individual alleged perpetrators or the responses of alleged victims, during a time with different social attitudes- even if the media and social media want it to be that.
 
Markfs said:
You might be right. I've said for the last few days that his major gripe now is that he has felt let down by buckley who was important to him until the eddie incident.

If your father or mother or a good friend lets you down, or you think they have, it can cut very deep. Hollywood might love to talk about forgiveness, but it often goes to the grave. People dont even try to see their parents again. I think it's a similar thing. I dont think it's about the racism or he might care what people think.
Click to expand...
I reckon this is spot on. Bucks chose to give his loyalty to the president and the club over fully supporting H and placed the value of their personal relationship below this. The merits or otherwise of such behaviour from Bucks is the subject of a different debate, but it is interesting that Bucks repeated this same stance years later with Treloar.

H has seen this as a betrayal of their personal relationship, ( one which I suspect was of great significance to H due to his family background and circumstances). Driven by deep seated hurt, getting his revenge has now become all consuming for Heritier. The fact that he can do this within a setting of fighting racism makes his rage more acceptable and justifiable to him.

I'm not meaning to discredit the legitimacy of Heritier's stand against racism. I just believe that it would ultimately be more productive and fruitful for him and society, if he could acknowledge (even if just to himself) the real underlying root of his angst against Collingwood and Bucks.

Some very descriptive and accurate words from Swanny :
“I don’t know what H’s end game is here … I don’t know whether he’s looking for someone to say sorry 100 times … or he just wants to see the club burn and wants to see Bucks burn to the ground with it,’’ Swan said on his Hump Day with Swanny and Friends podcast.

Just a side note also - marijuana is known for creating undue paranoia in certain individuals).
 
Last edited:
Toecrusher said:
It's already as the point where most people think he's a vengeful nutter. Continuing with his carefully chosen snippets of audio being released helps to confirm this to anyone with a sound mind.

He will need to show what he has, or nobody but Caro will be listening. And of course, who would listen to her dribble.
Click to expand...

It astounds be that she is still getting a paycheck. Can’t even look at her without feeling sickly. Throws Pot shots any chance she gets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Toecrusher said:
He doesn't need to release anything if he's happy for the majority not too take him seriously.

I honestly don't think he cares what anyone thinks of him, he's just appears to be a vengeful nutter who wants to tarnish others. Otherwise he'd be communicating with the club.
Click to expand...

That’s part of the problem, isn’t it. The majority don’t take him seriously anymore. The world in H’s head is a little different to reality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Markfs said:
There are times when a person raises a grievance about racial discrimination and they want the matter dealt with confidentially. They dont want all the outcomes written up ...or they dont want their allegations to be put in a report that goes public. And that is their right. The club doesnt own the grievance.

The report referred casually to a number of issues related to the club over the years. People like yourself who wanted specifics werent happy about that. However the report was concerned with the systemic problems. It is not a report summarising the incidents over the years.
Click to expand...
I am not on a soap box demanding specifics I am pointing out that there are and probably never were any specifics.
In regard to Harry I cannot see how any issue can be addressed any more than the wide-ranging apology and a commitment to address like situations in a more effective manner.

Without specifics to address Harry's stance that nothing has been done, which meets his approval, is meaningless.

In the light of that i still think that his specific axe should be ground in court.

I know that Leon Davis feels his experience at Collingwood has not been addressed. From his comments he made specific complaints and he wants them addressed specifically.

The whole issue is a giant minefield, with everything disaffected party wanting different outcomes.
Damned if you don't and damned if you do.

Reality is that if Collingwood had actually denied there was an issue the press could have hardly been worse.

Take it to court, get it over and done with and those who want to go on with it can go live "their truth" in isolation thereafter.
 
Pie eyed said:
I am not on a soap box demanding specifics I am pointing out that there are and probably never were any specifics.
In regard to Harry I cannot see how any issue can be addressed any more than the wide-ranging apology and a commitment to address like situations in a more effective manner.

Without specifics to address Harry's stance that nothing has been done, which meets his approval, is meaningless.

In the light of that i still think that his specific axe should be ground in court.

I know that Leon Davis feels his experience at Collingwood has not been addressed. From his comments he made specific complaints and he wants them addressed specifically.

The whole issue is a giant minefield, with everything disaffected party wanting different outcomes.
Damned if you don't and damned if you do.

Reality is that if Collingwood had actually denied there was an issue the press could have hardly been worse.

Take it to court, get it over and done with and those who want to go on with it can go live "their truth" in isolation thereafter.
Click to expand...
Its not going to court.
 
Pie eyed said:
I am not on a soap box demanding specifics I am pointing out that there are and probably never were any specifics.
In regard to Harry I cannot see how any issue can be addressed any more than the wide-ranging apology and a commitment to address like situations in a more effective manner.

Without specifics to address Harry's stance that nothing has been done, which meets his approval, is meaningless.

In the light of that i still think that his specific axe should be ground in court.

I know that Leon Davis feels his experience at Collingwood has not been addressed. From his comments he made specific complaints and he wants them addressed specifically.

The whole issue is a giant minefield, with everything disaffected party wanting different outcomes.
Damned if you don't and damned if you do.

Reality is that if Collingwood had actually denied there was an issue the press could have hardly been worse.

Take it to court, get it over and done with and those who want to go on with it can go live "their truth" in isolation thereafter.
Click to expand...

The problem is that lawyers and the legal system cant make decisions about relationships, especially on-going ones. You cant make person love you by getting a court order. Ask Domie and he'll give you a burst.

The other thing is that individual cases are personal to the people involved, unless they want the world to know about it. The club can't outline Leon Davis's grievance or outline the agreed outcome, unless he gives his permission. A lot of people seem to want to stick their noses in and know about individual matters, but this isnt reality TV and Leon isnt a kardashian.
 
Pie eyed said:
I am not on a soap box demanding specifics I am pointing out that there are and probably never were any specifics.
In regard to Harry I cannot see how any issue can be addressed any more than the wide-ranging apology and a commitment to address like situations in a more effective manner.

Without specifics to address Harry's stance that nothing has been done, which meets his approval, is meaningless.

In the light of that i still think that his specific axe should be ground in court.

I know that Leon Davis feels his experience at Collingwood has not been addressed. From his comments he made specific complaints and he wants them addressed specifically.

The whole issue is a giant minefield, with everything disaffected party wanting different outcomes.
Damned if you don't and damned if you do.

Reality is that if Collingwood had actually denied there was an issue the press could have hardly been worse.

Take it to court, get it over and done with and those who want to go on with it can go live "their truth" in isolation thereafter.
Click to expand...

If Collingwood commissioned this report for the short term media response, they're halfwits.
If Collingwood commissioned this report in order to make the club less likely to be embroiled in racism in the future, they've done well.

What has or hasn't happened in the past is always going to be messy - the report is focussed on making shit less likely to happen in the future.
 
sr36 said:
If Collingwood commissioned this report for the short term media response, they're halfwits.
If Collingwood commissioned this report in order to make the club less likely to be embroiled in racism in the future, they've done well.

What has or hasn't happened in the past is always going to be messy - the report is focussed on making shit less likely to happen in the future.
Click to expand...

Policies are like an employer putting a sign up which says "touch this electrical wire and you'll die". After an employee dies, everyone can blame the employer for not making sure all the employees could read....
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Markfs said:
Policies are like an employer putting a sign up which says "touch this electrical wire and you'll die". After an employee dies, everyone can blame the employer for not making sure all the employees could read....
Click to expand...
Protocols and flow charts that come from policies aren't. They take a lot of stupidity out of the equation and you wouldn't have had the stupidity of Bucks the boss dealing with HLs complaints against him. There would have been a mediator And 10 years later you'd be a damn site less likely to have two big egos who refused to listen to each other, still head butting about who was in the right.
 
sideswipe said:
Its not going to court.
Click to expand...
I know.
I was hoping before Harry walked away this last time that he would.
Turns out the application has been dormant for a year or more and Harry was all hot air.
To be honest I am tired of the issue, and this is the danger of people like Harry.
 
sr36 said:
Protocols and flow charts that come from policies aren't. They take a lot of stupidity out of the equation and you wouldn't have had the stupidity of Bucks the boss dealing with HLs complaints against him. There would have been a mediator And 10 years later you'd be a damn site less likely to have two big egos who refused to listen to each other, still head butting about who was in the right.
Click to expand...

yes... and another example is H taking on a complaint by a staff member. I dont think anyone in the player leadership group should be doing that. I agree with the use of policies so that the club can demonstrated that it had a fair process - carry on with your quest
 
Markfs said:
yes... and another example is H taking on a complaint by a staff member. I dont think anyone in the player leadership group should be doing that. I agree with the use of policies so that the club can demonstrated that it had a fair process - carry on with your quest
Click to expand...
Agree on the policy front, they just sit in draws unread, except they can help to focus the writing of protocols and flow charts, which stop mediocre managers from stuffing up too badly.
 
davea_melb said:
www.theguardian.com

Héritier Lumumba made us feel uncomfortable, and from that we have much to learn | Jonathan Horn

His issues with Collingwood and Nathan Buckley seem unresolvable but there are other voices emerging
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

Very nice by Jonathan Horn, not Jonathon. It is interesting to note that Jonathan is the traditional spelling of the name. Jonathon is only used by a minority of people.

The people who use Jonathon often have to spend considerable time correcting people who have mispelt their names. It's a tiresome thing to do. I think most of us wonder why people dont change the spelling of their names to Jonathon to make it easier for everyone, and to make the Jonathon's of this world feel included.
 
sr36 said:
If Collingwood commissioned this report for the short term media response, they're halfwits.
If Collingwood commissioned this report in order to make the club less likely to be embroiled in racism in the future, they've done well.

What has or hasn't happened in the past is always going to be messy - the report is focussed on making shit less likely to happen in the future.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree.
I think what Collingwood did beginning the process was great.
Leaking it was a blow and whoever did is the real fool.
The media making a total beat-up of Ed's use of the word "proud" was pathetic.
The club should have been proud that they had begun and completed the review.
That this was twisted by a media chock full of morons keen to suck Ruperts wrinkly **** is a travesty.
Those on these boards who fell for it are idiots as well,
It was obvious what Ed meant.

I hope Harry can come to terms with his life and his truth.

I hope there can be a resolution to the entire issue, but doubt that will ever happen as long as Melbourne "journalists".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top