- Mar 25, 2003
- 35,681
- 28,345
Interesting charts, but not sure I would have Kelly as the fifth best midfielder in the AFL. Or Parish #2 for that matter, whilst the Bont is down at 18.
Analysis Assessing the Midfield
- Thread starter Dylan82
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Thread starter
- #477
Agreed - it only takes into account just three statistics after all.
But as stated previously, it allows for an apples-with-apples comparison going back to 2005.
Interestingly enough, the top ranked player under this scheme has also won the Brownlow Medal in 4 of the past 5 years - the exception being D.Martin in 2017 (who came in 3rd).
A more expansive system than this one can be found here (Bontempelli comes in as 3rd among inside mids, Parish [who is in a very fine run of form it must be said] comes 4th in that category).
BEaston
Hungry
- Oct 9, 2013
- 12,304
- 17,266
- AFL Club
- Western Bulldogs
Interesting Dylan.
How did you come about using these three stats specifically?
I think uncontested to contested possession ratio would be an interesting way to discern inside/outside mid. Obviously coming from a Dogs perspective, it does seem odd to have Bont as heavily outside and Libba as complete.
How did you come about using these three stats specifically?
I think uncontested to contested possession ratio would be an interesting way to discern inside/outside mid. Obviously coming from a Dogs perspective, it does seem odd to have Bont as heavily outside and Libba as complete.
Back in 2019 Daniel Kerr was a regular on the Backchat podcast. One week they were talking about Shuey and Kerr said he had recently met him and said "Luke, you're 29. You've got to start handballing".
Kerr is obviously a complete nutcase away from football matters but on the specific subject of being an inside mid I thought his advice was worth listening to and probably still is. Shuey needs to change his role.
Off topic a bit but it's a shame Kerr is indeed a complete nutcase away from football because he always seemed to be incredibly football knowledgable on that podcast (believe it was Coast to Coast not Backchat). He would make an outstanding mids coach had he not decided to be an absolute loon.
Bit hard considering one of his biggest assets is his kicking.
- Aug 11, 2012
- 1,564
- 2,577
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Perth Football Club
I think Trew will be a great extractor going forward. Best set of hands in traffic that I've seen for us since Rowan Jones.
- Sep 21, 2004
- 39,886
- 30,054
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Norwood & Liverpool.
Sheed always more dangerous near the goals.
Left foot dagger
On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
Left foot dagger
On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
Eaglesliveagain
Senior List
- Mar 10, 2020
- 251
- 278
- AFL Club
- West Coast
What's an eight boot?
- Sep 28, 2009
- 23,836
- 34,276
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Reading FC
Size 8 boot
Get_The_Gaff
Norm Smith Medallist
- Apr 4, 2021
- 6,139
- 14,344
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Simon black is the duel sided sheed IMO .
Didak way to explosive
- Oct 7, 2016
- 850
- 3,198
- AFL Club
- West Coast
If it was enough to single handedly inspire our GF victory when Mitchell did it - imagine the impact of having a coach knock a cup of gatorade out of your hands knowing there is a genuine chance he would also burn your ****ing house to the ground.
God we really ****ed up that 97 draft. With the picks we had to just get Rojo as an AFL level player out of it is really disappointing. I know Phil Read also came from that draft but a bit like Kasey Green and the like could get a game in a shit side but not of the quality to play a role in a premiership.
kaiserchief13
Hall of Famer
- Jul 12, 2011
- 35,722
- 26,508
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Eagles, Lakers, Bayern, Trojans
Yeah missed on Goodes, Black and Scarlett. Definitely missed on Black as the others would've requested a trade most likely at some point in their career back East.
Not sure why mentioning Reid as everyone picked after him was bad
2021 Post Season Update
- Thread starter
- #496
Season 2021 is done.
Here are the top 50 players for the 2021 season according to this means of ranking:
Top 50 midfield rankings 2021 (minimum 5 games played). Refer to the OP for details on calculation method.
Note O.Wines in 6th position becomes just the third occurrence since 2010 of the Brownlow medallist not finishing within the top three rankings.
West Coast are the only club in the competition to have five players ranked inside the top 50.
Once again, the expectations for the best six from the club were not unfounded - they ranked clearly ahead of all other clubs:
Club midfield rankings comparison: Top 6 players, post trade period 2020 and post season 2021. Note West Coast is, as last year, a standout #1 here, ahead of Brisbane and the two Grand Finalists. A combination of organic youth development and D.Mundy refusing to acknowledge his age saw Fremantle make the biggest gains this season; whereas an injury-plagued year saw Richmond go into freefall.
But as we know all too well, despite the strength of the above, the club ranked 14th in the competition for contested possessions and second-last (only ahead of Collingwood) for metres gained per game in 2021.
It is the same story yet again as the previous two years, a lack of support for that top tier of players.
Here is the list of club midfield rankings for the 2021 season:
West Coast Eagles midfield rankings 2021: note the quality falling off a cliff beyond Gaff and Redden.
It should also be noted that with the exceptions of Yeo, Shuey and Naitanui every player in the above list declined after the mid-season bye.
The same complete lack of assistance to that elite bracket. So when players from that top level under-performed during the second half of the season there was no-one else who was capable of stepping in and stepping up to improve the team. That unfortunately is the story of the 2021 season for West Coast.
Indeed, when we look beyond the best six ranked players the club continues to fail in this area when compared to the rest of the competition:
Competition midfield rankings 2021: note that only North Melbourne and Adelaide rank below West Coast for players ranked 7-20.
The 2021 season was a repeat of the failings observed in 2019 and 2020.
When all available and fit, the quality of first choice midfield was the best of any, but it never got going (not once during 2021 did West Coast feature a match where each of Yeo, Kelly, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff and Redden were able to complete 70% time on ground in the same game) and the supporting cast were woefully inadequate.
The club still appears confident that this squad has another year of contention within it. However the glaring deficiency in its supporting depth is unlikely to be addressed in just one offseason unless the club somehow manages one of the greatest draft hands of all time or fringe players suddenly develop in ways that haven't been seen over the past three years.
It leaves the fortunes of the club in 2022 resting heavily upon the conditioning team and ensuring that the second-oldest list in the competition can defy the odds and stay injury-free throughout the season.
If those injuries should occur then the club is looking down the barrel of another year of disappointment and underachievement.
Further notes:
Here are the top 50 players for the 2021 season according to this means of ranking:
Top 50 midfield rankings 2021 (minimum 5 games played). Refer to the OP for details on calculation method.
Note O.Wines in 6th position becomes just the third occurrence since 2010 of the Brownlow medallist not finishing within the top three rankings.
West Coast are the only club in the competition to have five players ranked inside the top 50.
Once again, the expectations for the best six from the club were not unfounded - they ranked clearly ahead of all other clubs:
Club midfield rankings comparison: Top 6 players, post trade period 2020 and post season 2021. Note West Coast is, as last year, a standout #1 here, ahead of Brisbane and the two Grand Finalists. A combination of organic youth development and D.Mundy refusing to acknowledge his age saw Fremantle make the biggest gains this season; whereas an injury-plagued year saw Richmond go into freefall.
But as we know all too well, despite the strength of the above, the club ranked 14th in the competition for contested possessions and second-last (only ahead of Collingwood) for metres gained per game in 2021.
It is the same story yet again as the previous two years, a lack of support for that top tier of players.
Here is the list of club midfield rankings for the 2021 season:
West Coast Eagles midfield rankings 2021: note the quality falling off a cliff beyond Gaff and Redden.
It should also be noted that with the exceptions of Yeo, Shuey and Naitanui every player in the above list declined after the mid-season bye.
The same complete lack of assistance to that elite bracket. So when players from that top level under-performed during the second half of the season there was no-one else who was capable of stepping in and stepping up to improve the team. That unfortunately is the story of the 2021 season for West Coast.
Indeed, when we look beyond the best six ranked players the club continues to fail in this area when compared to the rest of the competition:
Competition midfield rankings 2021: note that only North Melbourne and Adelaide rank below West Coast for players ranked 7-20.
The 2021 season was a repeat of the failings observed in 2019 and 2020.
When all available and fit, the quality of first choice midfield was the best of any, but it never got going (not once during 2021 did West Coast feature a match where each of Yeo, Kelly, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff and Redden were able to complete 70% time on ground in the same game) and the supporting cast were woefully inadequate.
The club still appears confident that this squad has another year of contention within it. However the glaring deficiency in its supporting depth is unlikely to be addressed in just one offseason unless the club somehow manages one of the greatest draft hands of all time or fringe players suddenly develop in ways that haven't been seen over the past three years.
It leaves the fortunes of the club in 2022 resting heavily upon the conditioning team and ensuring that the second-oldest list in the competition can defy the odds and stay injury-free throughout the season.
If those injuries should occur then the club is looking down the barrel of another year of disappointment and underachievement.
Further notes:
- refer to the OP for the method of ranking calculation.
- this method is far from perfect, but allows an "apples-for-apples" comparison with previous seasons going back to 2005.
- There is a more comprehensive ranking system that covers other positions in addition to midfielders available within the Squad Selection & Ratings resource.
"Not once during 2021 did West Coast feature a match where each of Yeo, Kelly, Shuey, Sheed, Gaff and Redden were able to complete 70% time on ground in the same game, and the supporting cast were woefully inadequate..."
That in itself is is quite staggering...
It was a diabolical, uncanny season for recurring midfield injuries, unlike any other it could be said?
The midfield players list was a busy turnstile, that progressively dropped in quality as the season went on.
On paper it's almost mouthwatering to think of Shuey, Yeo, Kelly, Sheed, Redden and Gaff with Natanui all on the park in the one game, but we know it's not all as it seems - to repeat a tired old fact, there were many contributing reasons that created a perfect storm or implosion to last season - even if it was arguably in the midst of a downward trend from the previous 2 seasons.
I recall most of us were thinking Kelly would make all the difference to our next season, when he joined the group. Now we're backing SPS in a similar way!
The difference now is, if all those key mids have a solid preseason and that looks pretty much a certainty, then add Rioli with SPS....then West, Ledwards, Trew and whoever else we have putting in a good preseason with our new midfield coaches and further building team chemistry - then that's an improved depth on last season.
You could be right of course, it might be a repeat of last season, if same amount of injuries occur - but I just can't believe that can happen again, to the same extent? Given the club has made all the right moves thus far to address last years demise from the bottom up, all that remains is for Simmo to have a brainwash and rejig his coaching chops, then I figure we are starting from a much better position than 2021.
(*not forgetting that fallout/bad luck/injuries begin to happen in the preseason)
That in itself is is quite staggering...
It was a diabolical, uncanny season for recurring midfield injuries, unlike any other it could be said?
The midfield players list was a busy turnstile, that progressively dropped in quality as the season went on.
On paper it's almost mouthwatering to think of Shuey, Yeo, Kelly, Sheed, Redden and Gaff with Natanui all on the park in the one game, but we know it's not all as it seems - to repeat a tired old fact, there were many contributing reasons that created a perfect storm or implosion to last season - even if it was arguably in the midst of a downward trend from the previous 2 seasons.
I recall most of us were thinking Kelly would make all the difference to our next season, when he joined the group. Now we're backing SPS in a similar way!
The difference now is, if all those key mids have a solid preseason and that looks pretty much a certainty, then add Rioli with SPS....then West, Ledwards, Trew and whoever else we have putting in a good preseason with our new midfield coaches and further building team chemistry - then that's an improved depth on last season.
You could be right of course, it might be a repeat of last season, if same amount of injuries occur - but I just can't believe that can happen again, to the same extent? Given the club has made all the right moves thus far to address last years demise from the bottom up, all that remains is for Simmo to have a brainwash and rejig his coaching chops, then I figure we are starting from a much better position than 2021.
(*not forgetting that fallout/bad luck/injuries begin to happen in the preseason)
Last edited:
I think Rioli and SPS are the key, if they can be fit and reliable enough to provide depth in the midfield, then we can cover the inevitable injuries to the starting mids. Get 80% of the games with the starting mids available, with those guys filling in for depth, and we could very well challenge for top 2.
A very interesting season ahead.
2022 Mid-Season Update
- Thread starter
- #499
Time to boot this back up.
The 2021 post-season resulted in little change, the only exchanges of note being Dunstan leaving St Kilda to add further strength to premiers Melbourne, and Cerra trading from Fremantle to join Carlton.
Going into 2022, the West Coast midfield among the strongest in the competition - on paper.
It was also the oldest with a significant history of recent injuries - getting the pieces fit and on the ground at the same time would be the difference between success and disaster.
Jump forward to now at the halfway point of the season, the top 50 under this rating system appears like this:
Top 50 players (minimum 3 games played). Refer to the OP for details on calculation method.
No Yeo, Sheed or Naitanui to be found above. Kelly inside the top 10 appears to be playing almost a lone hand - this doesn't augur well.
Oh dear.
This is the biggest drop in midfield performance recorded under this metric by a club within a single season. It also highlights elsewhere just how reliant the reigning premiers are upon the performance of a small group.
All of our worst held fears have come to pass. The aging midfield has been ravaged by persistent injuries which has prevented its primary components from playing together. Additionally, the rush to get players back prematurely has caused problems with conditioning which have further compounded the issues with injuries.
It means the composition of the midfield this year, particularly in its depth and support, has changed radically:
Our eyes have not been deceiving us - Gaff is playing more inside than any other midfielder on our list aside from Redden and Rioli. As for Redden, he currently rates as the second-most inside bound midfielder in the competition behind only R.Sloane of Adelaide.
Of most alarm with the table above however is that just one player within the top seven [West] is younger than 28. Five are over 30.
It suggests that the worst of this fall may still be yet to to come.
Looking across the competition, it is easy to see why the club finds itself rooted at the bottom of the ladder.
Note how a lack of midfield depth is likely to constrain Carlton and Gold Coast this year. Also, Sydney and Fremantle are putting together very healthy looking profiles in their developing squads.
That profile for the club looks horrible. The eventual returns of Yeo and Sheed during the second half of the season will obviously provide some benefit, but won't escape the fact that the era of success has ended at break-neck speed, with a full rebuild now required to be undertaken.
......
West Coast dropped the most of all clubs in terms of both midfield quality and depth. Note also the incredible growth that is occurring organically at Gold Coast.
The midfield has imploded this year as a result of age, injury, and a continued lack of development within the supporting tier.
That implosion has placed the club on course for the worst finish in its history. Unfortunately, all signs appear to suggest there will be no quick way out of this slump.
Further notes:
The 2021 post-season resulted in little change, the only exchanges of note being Dunstan leaving St Kilda to add further strength to premiers Melbourne, and Cerra trading from Fremantle to join Carlton.
Going into 2022, the West Coast midfield among the strongest in the competition - on paper.
It was also the oldest with a significant history of recent injuries - getting the pieces fit and on the ground at the same time would be the difference between success and disaster.
Jump forward to now at the halfway point of the season, the top 50 under this rating system appears like this:
Top 50 players (minimum 3 games played). Refer to the OP for details on calculation method.
No Yeo, Sheed or Naitanui to be found above. Kelly inside the top 10 appears to be playing almost a lone hand - this doesn't augur well.
Oh dear.
This is the biggest drop in midfield performance recorded under this metric by a club within a single season. It also highlights elsewhere just how reliant the reigning premiers are upon the performance of a small group.
All of our worst held fears have come to pass. The aging midfield has been ravaged by persistent injuries which has prevented its primary components from playing together. Additionally, the rush to get players back prematurely has caused problems with conditioning which have further compounded the issues with injuries.
It means the composition of the midfield this year, particularly in its depth and support, has changed radically:
Our eyes have not been deceiving us - Gaff is playing more inside than any other midfielder on our list aside from Redden and Rioli. As for Redden, he currently rates as the second-most inside bound midfielder in the competition behind only R.Sloane of Adelaide.
Of most alarm with the table above however is that just one player within the top seven [West] is younger than 28. Five are over 30.
It suggests that the worst of this fall may still be yet to to come.
Looking across the competition, it is easy to see why the club finds itself rooted at the bottom of the ladder.
Note how a lack of midfield depth is likely to constrain Carlton and Gold Coast this year. Also, Sydney and Fremantle are putting together very healthy looking profiles in their developing squads.
That profile for the club looks horrible. The eventual returns of Yeo and Sheed during the second half of the season will obviously provide some benefit, but won't escape the fact that the era of success has ended at break-neck speed, with a full rebuild now required to be undertaken.
......
West Coast dropped the most of all clubs in terms of both midfield quality and depth. Note also the incredible growth that is occurring organically at Gold Coast.
The midfield has imploded this year as a result of age, injury, and a continued lack of development within the supporting tier.
That implosion has placed the club on course for the worst finish in its history. Unfortunately, all signs appear to suggest there will be no quick way out of this slump.
Further notes:
- refer to the OP for the method of ranking calculation.
- this method is far from perfect, but allows an "apples-for-apples" comparison with previous seasons going back to 2005.
- There is a more comprehensive ranking system that covers other positions in addition to midfielders available within the Squad Selection & Ratings resource.
- Aug 11, 2012
- 1,564
- 2,577
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Perth Football Club
The fact that Zac Langdon is rated as our 11th best midfielder should be setting alarm bells on fire.
Similar threads
- Poll
