The 'nice guy/good bloke' culture at the club needs to change

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Cyber_punk

Cyber_punk

Doomer
A Star Wars Fan Fallout Fan
Feb 16, 2020
5,715
14,015
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Is anyone else concerned about it. I see these things said about a lot of our players and even some supporters and it really worries me that it seems to be the main qualifier for some over merit and ability.

The players were given the power to choose the captains and it has become quite a disastrous result since this is the person they feel represents them and/or is to lead them and set standards. Yes, I am talking about Luke Mcdonald but the general culture too. I have seen similar glowing stuff said about Hall, McKay etc. Whenever I have seen them talk about Luke it's always how much of a great guy he is, bleeds for the club etc. Does this happen at other clubs? I'm a bit out of the loop on how many clubs allow the players this much power with captains choice. On top of this, we have the added layer of those chosen players fathers having been or still working at the club, even in recruiting, making the tough choices even tougher, again due to mateship and family. Donald McDonald no doubt has strong connections to the club and I think it's naive to believe that it wouldn't be a factor in Luke not being dropped for his terrible form.

Nepotism is of course common in every work place, I get it, it's human nature, but it's often to the detriment of results.

I'm not saying we need to become a club of pricks or anything, but there is a balance. Pagan dropped his son Ryan after 3 games if I recall, never to play again.

I just worry we have become a mates club who market ourselves as nice guys, unable to make necessary painful decisions that might lead to success. I really hope nasty Clarko shows up soon.
 
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Cyber_punk said:
Is anyone else concerned about it. I see these things said about a lot of our players and even some supporters and it really worries me that it seems to be the main qualifier for some over merit and ability.

The players were given the power to choose the captains and it has become quite a disastrous result since this is the person they feel represents them and/or is to lead them and set standards. Yes, I am talking about Luke Mcdonald. Whenever I have seen them talk about him it's always how much of a great guy he is, bleeds for the club etc. Does this happen at other clubs? I'm a bit out of the loop on how many clubs allow the players this much power. On top of this, we have the added layer of those chosen players fathers having been or still working at the club, even in recruiting, making the tough choices even tougher, again due to mateship and family.

Nepotism is of course common in every work place, I get it, it's human nature, but it's often to the detriment of results.

I'm not saying we need to become a club of pricks or anything, but there is a balance. Pagan dropped his son Ryan after 3 games if I recall.

I just worry we have become a mates club who market ourselves as nice guys, unable to make necessary painful decisions that might lead to success.
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Many chairs will be thrown
 

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As long as all the boys end up with houses, I'm fine.
 
Cyber_punk said:
Is anyone else concerned about it. I see these things said about a lot of our players and even some supporters and it really worries me that it seems to be the main qualifier for some over merit and ability.

The players were given the power to choose the captains and it has become quite a disastrous result since this is the person they feel represents them and/or is to lead them and set standards. Yes, I am talking about Luke Mcdonald but the general culture too. I have seen similar glowing stuff said about Hall, McKay etc. Whenever I have seen them talk about Luke it's always how much of a great guy he is, bleeds for the club etc. Does this happen at other clubs? I'm a bit out of the loop on how many clubs allow the players this much power with captains choice. On top of this, we have the added layer of those chosen players fathers having been or still working at the club, even in recruiting, making the tough choices even tougher, again due to mateship and family. Donald McDonald no doubt has strong connections to the club and I think it's naive to believe that it wouldn't be a factor in Luke not being dropped for his terrible form.

Nepotism is of course common in every work place, I get it, it's human nature, but it's often to the detriment of results.

I'm not saying we need to become a club of pricks or anything, but there is a balance. Pagan dropped his son Ryan after 3 games if I recall, never to play again.

I just worry we have become a mates club who market ourselves as nice guys, unable to make necessary painful decisions that might lead to success. I really hope nasty Clarko shows up soon.
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You don't change culture overnight but I reckon we're aware of what needs to be done, and in many ways it is being done.

Luke is an interesting example - on form he gets dropped agreed.
 
The Warlord said:
You don't change culture overnight but I reckon we're aware of what needs to be done, and in many ways it is being done.

Luke is an interesting example - on form he gets dropped agreed.
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One thing he does is crack in hard at the ball. To the point where he'll take the opportunity to drive into an opposition player instead of handballing it on quickly to a better option who ts clear.
 
koshari said:
the quality of the list needs to change, to many weak links, i would prefer we ship in half a dozen marty pike types, loose as but could play.
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Agreed. And I also agree that the team needs a bit more mongrel about it too.

But we are losers. That's our culture. Sounds harsh but we've won 9 times in our last 74 attempts. Literally losers. Inarguable.

Sorry Jack, Todd and Ben - great warriors, loyal servants, good blokes, enjoyed the ride watching them play - but all losers. All were present and established players as the team slid from just mediocrity to being outright losers so in my mind, they all need to finish up. One of our captains is a loser. Played 10 years without ever reaching greats heights and makes the same mistakes every week without consequence. Drop him next week and find a better leader next year. Loser mentality seeps through an organisation like a cancer. Having losers in leadership makes it terminal. McKay is a loser. He's played 62 games and only won 7. If he sees the only way to be a winner is to follow the $$$....then good! Piss off. If staying at North means staying a loser then we're better off without you. If you want to stay, then lift!

I wonder if half the players in our club have become desensitised to being losers? Are they angry about being losers? Are they even aware of how much of a loser they are? Or how their loser culture is influencing younger players? The fish doesn't see the water it swims in. The culture won't change until someone sees it, calls it out and changes it. Hopefully that's where Clarko, Ratts and Todd get to work over summer after seeing what they've seen. Until then, and if it happens, then we aren't going to where we want to go no matter who we draft, or what loser concessions we get.

I'm not about needing to see 'hurt' when they walk off after another loss. I get they don't like losing. I don't need to feel some sort of anger - although I felt Ratts was getting there yesterday. Or inciting fans to microwave memberships or dump horseshit outside Arden St. I just want the loser culture gone and the only way to do that involves getting the losers out of the way. Should have happened long ago, but must happen now at selection, and definitely at the end of the year.
 
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The Nostradamus said:
Mongrel is definitely a trait I want in anyone we recruit

Watson and Nate caddy have this
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Yet you love Stephenson. Some of his efforts yesterday were appalling.
 

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I’m not in the anti-Stephenson camp but the timing of this ad is pretty funny. IMG_3436.png
 
You can be a good bloke and hate losing. Our blokes don't seem to hate losing enough.

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Unfortunately for us who stick with this shit show week in week out, we need to accept that till jye and ldu are late 20's and our really young mids are mid 20's this bog will continue. In that time we need to get good ball movement out of the backline and a really good small forward. I think there's a lot of good pieces in place but there's also some that we need to give up on, and move them on
 
Marstermind said:
Agreed. And I also agree that the team needs a bit more mongrel about it too.

But we are losers. That's our culture. Sounds harsh but we've won 9 times in our last 74 attempts. Literally losers. Inarguable.

Sorry Jack, Todd and Ben - great warriors, loyal servants, good blokes, enjoyed the ride watching them play - but all losers. All were present and established players as the team slid from just mediocrity to being outright losers so in my mind, they all need to finish up. One of our captains is a loser. Played 10 years without ever reaching greats heights and makes the same mistakes every week without consequence. Drop him next week and find a better leader next year. Loser mentality seeps through an organisation like a cancer. Having losers in leadership makes it terminal. McKay is a loser. He's played 62 games and only won 7. If he sees the only way to be a winner is to follow the $$$....then good! Piss off. If staying at North means staying a loser then we're better off without you. If you want to stay, then lift!

I wonder if half the players in our club have become desensitised to being losers? Are they angry about being losers? Are they even aware of how much of a loser they are? Or how their loser culture is influencing younger players? The fish doesn't see the water it swims in. The culture won't change until someone sees it, calls it out and changes it. Hopefully that's where Clarko, Ratts and Todd get to work over summer after seeing what they've seen. Until then, and if it happens, then we aren't going to where we want to go no matter who we draft, or what loser concessions we get.

I'm not about needing to see 'hurt' when they walk off after another loss. I get they don't like losing. I don't need to feel some sort of anger - although I felt Ratts was getting there yesterday. Or inciting fans to microwave memberships or dump horseshit outside Arden St. I just want the loser culture gone and the only way to do that involves getting the losers out of the way. Should have happened long ago, but must happen now at selection, and definitely at the end of the year.
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Remember when Geelong lost to us in 2007, their players had a meeting and really challenged each other on what they wanted to stand and be known for as a team, as a club. They made a concious decision to change their culture, and as we know the rest is history. I know we aren't at that stage of development, but I'm struggling to see such a scenario play out with our current leaders.
 
Cyber_punk said:
Remember when Geelong lost to us in 2007, their players had a meeting and really challenged each other on what they wanted to stand and be known for as a team, as a club. They made a concious decision to change their culture, and as we know the rest is history. I know we aren't at that stage of development, but I'm struggling to see such a scenario play out with our current leaders.
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Because the older blokes are not good enough to back it up.

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Cyber_punk said:
Remember when Geelong lost to us in 2007, their players had a meeting and really challenged each other on what they wanted to stand and be known for as a team, as a club. They made a concious decision to change their culture, and as we know the rest is history. I know we aren't at that stage of development, but I'm struggling to see such a scenario play out with our current leaders.
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Absolutely correct. The Cats a year or two earlier lost that crazy Nick Davis final at the SCG. They had a good list which was underperforming, were perceived as a bit ‘soft’ and they knew it. So they did something about it. We aren’t even close to that, miles off that level. We have a really shit list with only 5-6 good youngsters, a bunch of hack senior /veteran players happy collecting their pay cheques and heaps of sub standard AFL duds on our list. We need those 5-6 youngsters plus 4-5 from the next few drafts to become top shelf hungry, motivated, ruthless AFL players and from there a new leadership/culture to emerge. It needs to happen before the Tassie team comes in and the drafts gets compromised again otherwise were completely ****ed for another decade or two. The AFL don’t care about crappy little North. They would rather us down the bottom for eternity than a Collingwood, Swans, Essendon etc.
 
Forever North said:
Absolutely correct. The Cats a year or two earlier lost that crazy Nick Davis final at the SCG. They had a good list which was underperforming, were perceived as a bit ‘soft’ and they knew it. So they did something about it. We aren’t even close to that, miles off that level. We have a really s**t list with only 5-6 good youngsters, a bunch of hack senior /veteran players happy collecting their pay cheques and heaps of sub standard AFL duds on our list. We need those 5-6 youngsters plus 4-5 from the next few drafts to become top shelf hungry, motivated, ruthless AFL players and from there a new leadership/culture to emerge. It needs to happen before the Tassie team comes in and the drafts gets compromised again otherwise were completely ****ed for another decade or two. The AFL don’t care about crappy little North. They would rather us down the bottom for eternity than a Collingwood, Swans, Essendon etc.
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Yes you can see Sheez and Warlord strive for it. Those 2 in particular will lead the charge. Hopefully the mentality of some of the older guys doesn't rub off on them too much.
 
Forever North said:
We have a really s**t list with only 5-6 good youngsters, a bunch of hack senior /veteran players happy collecting their pay cheques and heaps of sub standard AFL duds on our list.
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Only 5-6 good players? I’m sorry, we just had a bad loss but this is horseshit.

Wardlaw
Sheezel
Thomas
Phillips
LDU
Simpkin
Larkey
Zurharr
Logue
Scott
all have elite potential.

Then those who’s ceiling is very handy B+ grader at least:

Powell
Ford
Bergman
Curtis
Xerri
Goater
McKay (if he stays)
CCJ
Comben

Shiels, Greenwood, Ziebell, Goldy solid seniors.

LMac, Corr, Tucker not up to it.
What these guys need is consistency (as per Rick’s post today) and learning a modern system under a competent coach for a couple of years. Our situation is unique in how ****ed the club has been.
This is year one of rebuilding a rebuild. People need to remember this.

We don’t need heaps more than we already have. Some defenders, yes, both lockdown and running. Another class winger. A small forward or two. Some of these guys are already on the list, guaranteed. Stop playing fantasy football: what we need is another two pre-seasons learning Clarko’s game plan and getting fit as ****. That’s it. We have more than half of a finals quality side already. They need to learn how to win.
 
Ischenko said:
Only 5-6 good players? I’m sorry, we just had a bad loss but this is horseshit.

Wardlaw
Sheezel
Thomas
Phillips
LDU
Simpkin
Larkey
Zurharr
Logue
Scott
all have elite potential.

Then those who’s ceiling is very handy B+ grader at least:

Powell
Ford
Bergman
Curtis
Xerri
Goater
McKay (if he stays)
CCJ
Comben

Shiels, Greenwood, Ziebell, Goldy solid seniors.

LMac, Corr, Tucker not up to it.
What these guys need is consistency (as per Rick’s post today) and learning a modern system under a competent coach for a couple of years. Our situation is unique in how ****ed the club has been.
This is year one of rebuilding a rebuild. People need to remember this.

We don’t need heaps more than we already have. Some defenders, yes, both lockdown and running. Another class winger. A small forward or two. Some of these guys are already on the list, guaranteed. Stop playing fantasy football: what we need is another two pre-seasons learning Clarko’s game plan and getting fit as *. That’s it. We have more than half of a finals quality side already. They need to learn how to win.
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I agree with this. The list is clearly not very good but it isn't diabolically bad either. So why can't we snag a win somewhere? Hawthorn's second half last week and first half today were diabolically bad - far worse than anything we've put together in the last 6 weeks - yet in that time they snagged wins against the Lions and Saints. How does that happen? Can't be that teams just don't have off days against us.

Goes back to mentality and culture for mine. The younger Hawthorn list, as poor as it is, isn't shackled with years of failure and mediocrity. If they get a sniff they believe. When they don't they get trampled on. When we get a sniff, we're waiting on someone to stuff it up. Hawthorn could eventually lose so badly so often that they'll be where we are.

The Essendon and Sydney losses were crucial. We started poorly, got back in it, got ahead, fell behind, stuck around and then just errors from senior players saw us behind at the wrong time. Winning those could have charged a lot. As it was we lost.

We just need that sort of breakthrough win against a more fancied opponent. I reckon when it comes, more wins will follow. But it'll just be a sugar hit unless the right decisions get made at selection and list management.
 

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The 'nice guy/good bloke' culture at the club needs to change

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