Opinion So who is our next Wayne Carey? The guy that is a dominant force in the competition that leads us to our next Flag?

[King Corey]

I think the greatness of Carey was he was a long way above the level those teammates you mentioned.

Barassi had many more champions at his disposal than Pagan, but you could throw a blanket over Barassi's.

Having watched all of the Pagan years - the player you left out was Mick Martyn. As good as the others were, Martyn was second picked each week.

On B&F's, no disrespect to the others, Carey should have won at least 6 of them.

Funny you mention him. Watching a bit of Bend_It_Like_Brown great YouTube content and reaffirmed how good several of our players were notably Mick.

Competes every single time, marks it well, shoves through contests and his kicking might've been unorthodox but he sure could hoof it well out of danger.

 

[Zondor]

Primarily because I find it a bit of a joke that you claim to be interested in anyone's opinion but your own. You've set up a thread to give yourself the opportunity to ridicule anyone who is not as jaded and cynical and negative as you are. Good luck with that.

I am interested in others opinions. If I wasn’t I wouldn’t waste my time on this forum. Sure I do ridicule certain posters such as yourself but by a large I like reading the opinions of others eventhough they don’t marry up to mine. Now give it a crack Snrubs. Who on our list is our next generational talent? Is there 1? Are there more than 1? :stern look

 

[shinboner magic]

Removing the bumps, Schwass was a much more complete player than McKercher will ever be imo.

McKercher is a little train that chugs along - gets and goes, gets and goes. Run in straight lines, medium or short kick to a target. Nothing to sneeze at.

Schwass could switch inside to outsude and back, stop, pivot and size up situations quickly then run a jagged pattern and kick to a long target. Just a fantastic complete player in skill set.

Wells at times was the closest we've had since in a footballing sense (ie without considering the brutality aspect).

Swatta could be tagged out of games.

Sheeze is tracking to be better than him
Not as dynamic or high flying but just a high level in everything he does.
Back , middle or forward he finds the ball at will.

 

[King Corey]

Swatta could be tagged out of games.

Sheeze is tracking to be better than him
Not as dynamic or high flying but just a high level in everything he does.
Back , middle or forward he finds the ball at will.

It was Schwass vs McKercher.

God willing, Sheezel is tracking to be something special in his own right alongside Carey, Blight, Boomer.

 

[kool kangas]

If George Wardlaw can get (and stay) fit he will be insanely good in 3 years time.

This is what l was thinking also...Self belief is the main factor for me in a player and Wardlaw shows plenty of it. If someone is needed to break a game open Wardlaw is who l would be looking at before Sheezel, McKercher and the rest..

 

[7577969923]

This is what l was thinking also...Self belief is the main factor for me in a player and Wardlaw shows plenty of it. If someone is needed to break a game open Wardlaw is who l would be looking at before Sheezel, McKercher and the rest..

Has a bit of a Michael Voss vibe about him. The Lions had such a stacked midfield in those days (Voss, Acker, Black, Lappin, Power, Hart, Headland, Notting, Bradshaw, but Voss seemed to be the one that when things were tight would win the hard contest and swing momentum.

Wardlaw = Voss
Sheez = Acker
Powell = Black
Kerch = Lappin
LDU = ?

 

[Gasometer]

Carey won games off his own boot

Plugger

Martin

Lethal

It will take someone special to win games off their boot and influence the outcome by dragging team mates in

In the meantime, those with potential would be fit enough to carry his bags

Lock this dumb thread someone

 

[HumphreyBBear]

We had five players in the AA squad of 40 for 2024 players who 22 and under, (HS, GW, McK, TP, PC.) Freo was next with four. That is the beginning of gun side.

All of our players under 24 have played less than 100 games but of them the five mentioned above plus Comben, Phillips, Goater, Archer. Even Ford, Bergman, RHJr and Hardeman have shown something at the level. Despite some of them playing less than ten games between them.

Wil Dawson, Whitlock and Goad are very young but have alot of potential.




Thomas is a huge loss. Wardlaw has shown more than JHF after two seasons, especially in terms of desire to compete. He's a better mid, not as good up forward.

I have seen Reid live and if you worry about LDU or Warlord's kicking Reid's will give you a seizure. He had five kicks and mangled four of them. His twelve touches that day were poor. If he hadn't taken an amazing mark you'd wonder what the fuss was about. McKercher was much better that day. Had three times as many possessions too.

Our draft hand since 2020 has seen us pick 9 players after pick 30, about average. All but two are still on the list. But we have 13 picks under 30 (not including JHF,) that is almost double the average for that period.

We had five from the previous five drafts.

Of those 13 picks ten are nominal first rounders (only pushed back by bid matching).

That's about as close to maximising our draft hand as you can get. Especially considering we haven't played finals since before Jy, Larkey and Zurhasr were drafted.

We may have had two or three more draft picks at the cost of Parker, Daniel, CCJ, Fisher and Stephens. But they'd have been later picks and in the case of the last two would have cost us Wil Dawson, Hardeman or both.








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As usual, Ferbs is right on the money. A sensible, well-thought out, and well argued post. So rare on Bigfooty.

 

[HumphreyBBear]

I was wondering if anyone would draw Tom Powell to Simon Black comparisons, and Steve McCann footycard did. Watching TP in person I am blown away by his vision and footy IQ. Just like Simon Black. Of course, he has a lot of work to do to be thought of in Black's class, but I think it's possible.

He might be a superstar.

 

[fusion]

There is no next Wayne Carey. He's up there in the discussions on who the greatest player of all time is. He was captain at 21, and exploded in 1993 at age 22, to be close to the best player in the AFL.

He was all Australian captain at 22. His contested marking was ground breaking, and he broke all the records. And that's with him being double or triple teamed at that time. Pagan had to change tactics to the "paddock" to try to get him one on one contests after this.

Im happy to have witnessed a once in a lifetime player. He's better than "generational", as we'll see maybe 3 of that kind in a lifetime.

 

[hilly]

I've only watched Powell on a Bet365 stream but am yet to see Simon Black v2.

 

[Passmore]

There is no next Wayne Carey. He's up there in the discussions on who the greatest player of all time is. He was captain at 21, and exploded in 1993 at age 22, to be close to the best player in the AFL.

He was all Australian captain at 22. His contested marking was ground breaking, and he broke all the records. And that's with him being double or triple teamed at that time. Pagan had to change tactics to the "paddock" to try to get him one on one contests after this.

Im happy to have witnessed a once in a lifetime player. He's better than "generational", as well see maybe 3 of that kind in a lifetime.

And he played with an edge or menace that you just can't nowadays.

Who was Brisbane, Sydney, or Collingwood's "Carey" ? Not even that, the one player who puts them on their back each week? No one. They don't exist. Maybe Bontempelli. Maybe Cripps.

We're just as likely to be successful with half a dozen All Aus calibre players and and a bunch that do their job very well.

Now, more importantly than finding a "Carey ", do we have enough players in this category?



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[Dinkers]

Easy question to answer, Callum ' Garry' Coleman Jones .

 

[Shermanator]

Easy question to answer, Callum ' Garry' Coleman Jones .

 

[Passmore]

Easy question to answer, Callum ' Garry' Coleman Jones .

I suspect Garry may have been a much more dangerous aerial threat.

 

[Gasometer]

I suspect Garry may have been a much more dangerous aerial threat.

The Garry Doco last year showed how much of a tragedy his life became. Show some respect. Vale legend

 

[ferball]

Removing the bumps, Schwass was a much more complete player than McKercher will ever be imo.

McKercher is a little train that chugs along - gets and goes, gets and goes. Run in straight lines, medium or short kick to a target. Nothing to sneeze at.

Schwass could switch inside to outsude and back, stop, pivot and size up situations quickly then run a jagged pattern and kick to a long target. Just a fantastic complete player in skill set.

Wells at times was the closest we've had since in a footballing sense (ie without considering the brutality aspect).

If we had Schwatta now....

Incredibly under rated. In our top three players while he was with us. Not necessarily in third place either.

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[Passmore]

The Garry Doco last year showed how much of a tragedy his life became. Show some respect. Vale legend

A number of horror stories amongst the cast there.

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[ferball]

I was wondering if anyone would draw Tom Powell to Simon Black comparisons, and Steve McCann footycard did. Watching TP in person I am blown away by his vision and footy IQ. Just like Simon Black. Of course, he has a lot of work to do to be thought of in Black's class, but I think it's possible.

He might be a superstar.

Black had an elite tank as well. Was a nationally ranked 1500m runner as a kid iirc.

Dunno if Tommy has that on his toolbox but you can see the comparisons.

He also looks a lot like Luke Parker right now. Same haircut. Similar build.

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[CharlieMortdecai]

Sheezel at least.

But...

Collingwood, Brisbane, Geelong (their generational players were cooked in 2022), Melbourne, West Coast, Footscray and Hawthorn in 2014/15 ...

None had "generational" players like Martin. They had talented sides and good systems with plenty of hard working role players as well.

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I agree with this view. Brisbane in particular seems to be the model, stack the team with talent, picking at the pointy end of the draft so you're less likely to **** it up, let them marinate for a couple of seasons, bring in some experienced heads who've tasted success to guide them.
No Dusty or Duck, but weight of talent wins out if the system is right. Sheezel will come pretty close though.

 

[3051]

I think the greatness of Carey was he was a long way above the level those teammates you mentioned.

Barassi had many more champions at his disposal than Pagan, but you could throw a blanket over Barassi's.

Having watched all of the Pagan years - the player you left out was Mick Martyn. As good as the others were, Martyn was second picked each week.

On B&F's, no disrespect to the others, Carey should have won at least 6 of them.

I just rewatched that Essendon game he kicked 10 in, in 99. Coincidentally, Mighty Mick was out for that game, and took our balance out a bit, forcing Archer on Lloyd to start the game (which Lloyd kicked 6 in the first half).

In the context of this thread, I thought that the Essendon and North sides in that particular game are great examples of the different ways you can build a dominant side.

North, of course, had the GOAT, who played one of his more iconic games, kicking 10. He was by far, the best player on the ground that day. Still, North lost the game by 26 points.

Watching that game, it was a credit to how good Carey was - and to an extent how good North was, that they only lost by 26, and at stages the margin was far closer. Essendon played a scintillating game, and carved up North the entire game.

Essendon didn't have a player of Carey's ilk - their best was probably Lloyd (or maybe Mercuri that year), but the point I'm trying to make, is that none of Essendon's players got close to the tier Carey was - and potentially even McKernan at his best did. Their list however, had more quality players that ran deeper than North's.

To illustrate, it was actually interesting ranking all the players in this game based off some arbitrary 'Rank' score - though I think it matches my eye test well. (Source: https://www.finalsiren.com/MatchDet...57b47bf42d364fefe8a41f1a4ee9&Sort=Rating Desc)

A total of 44 players were ranked.

Top 10

North Melbourne had 4/10 players in the top 10, totalling 424 points. Essendon's 6 in the top 10 totalled 563. However, Carey was such an outlier that he had a ranking of 161 points - 45 points more than the second player in Lloyd. 45 points is the margin between Lloyd and the 18th highest ranked player in that game, Matthew Prior. Carey skewed that top ten a bit - the other three North players averaged 87.7 points, whereas the six Essendon players average 93.8. So Essendon were better in quality and depth.

Bottom 10

The bottom 10 shows the inverse of the top 10 - with 6/10 players belonging to North with an average of 12 points per player. Essendon's four in the bottom ten averaged 21.3 points. North had more players that were of worse quality than the Bombers. It's actually even worse if I extend it to the bottom 15 players as North own 10/15 of those places.

Conclusion

Why I highlight this game is that this is a great game to highlight a bit about our 90s team - though potentially the 99 team, whilst winning the premiership, was not peak 90s North. Really top-heavy, with an even heavier pointy end in Carey. The bottom four weren't very good, and in this Essendon game, they got really exposed (hello Dhurrkay, Anderson, and Lange with a combined 2 possessions between them).

But also that I think current North is more of the mould of the 99 Essendon team, more of an even spread of quality players, great system, coach, etc. So we don't necessarily need to have a player of Carey's calibre, but we probably need a couple of our players to reach Hird, Lloyd, and Fletcher-level of greatness, and then to bat deeper than the rest of the competition. This is probably more inline with how the modern game is going too.

 

[Liam Boy]

Jasmine Garner.

 

[Gasometer]

A number of horror stories amongst the cast there.

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A curse on that show

 

[ferball]

I just rewatched that Essendon game he kicked 10 in, in 99. Coincidentally, Mighty Mick was out for that game, and took our balance out a bit, forcing Archer on Lloyd to start the game (which Lloyd kicked 6 in the first half).

In the context of this thread, I thought that the Essendon and North sides in that particular game are great examples of the different ways you can build a dominant side.

North, of course, had the GOAT, who played one of his more iconic games, kicking 10. He was by far, the best player on the ground that day. Still, North lost the game by 26 points.

Watching that game, it was a credit to how good Carey was - and to an extent how good North was, that they only lost by 26, and at stages the margin was far closer. Essendon played a scintillating game, and carved up North the entire game.

Essendon didn't have a player of Carey's ilk - their best was probably Lloyd (or maybe Mercuri that year), but the point I'm trying to make, is that none of Essendon's players got close to the tier Carey was - and potentially even McKernan at his best did. Their list however, had more quality players that ran deeper than North's.

To illustrate, it was actually interesting ranking all the players in this game based off some arbitrary 'Rank' score - though I think it matches my eye test well. (Source: https://www.finalsiren.com/MatchDet...57b47bf42d364fefe8a41f1a4ee9&Sort=Rating Desc)

A total of 44 players were ranked.

Top 10

North Melbourne had 4/10 players in the top 10, totalling 424 points. Essendon's 6 in the top 10 totalled 563. However, Carey was such an outlier that he had a ranking of 161 points - 45 points more than the second player in Lloyd. 45 points is the margin between Lloyd and the 18th highest ranked player in that game, Matthew Prior. Carey skewed that top ten a bit - the other three North players averaged 87.7 points, whereas the six Essendon players average 93.8. So Essendon were better in quality and depth.

Bottom 10

The bottom 10 shows the inverse of the top 10 - with 6/10 players belonging to North with an average of 12 points per player. Essendon's four in the bottom ten averaged 21.3 points. North had more players that were of worse quality than the Bombers. It's actually even worse if I extend it to the bottom 15 players as North own 10/15 of those places.

Conclusion

Why I highlight this game is that this is a great game to highlight a bit about our 90s team - though potentially the 99 team, whilst winning the premiership, was not peak 90s North. Really top-heavy, with an even heavier pointy end in Carey. The bottom four weren't very good, and in this Essendon game, they got really exposed (hello Dhurrkay, Anderson, and Lange with a combined 2 possessions between them).

But also that I think current North is more of the mould of the 99 Essendon team, more of an even spread of quality players, great system, coach, etc. So we don't necessarily need to have a player of Carey's calibre, but we probably need a couple of our players to reach Hird, Lloyd, and Fletcher-level of greatness, and then to bat deeper than the rest of the competition. This is probably more inline with how the modern game is going too.

Great post. Summed it up brilliantly.

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[Shermanator]

Black had an elite tank as well. Was a nationally ranked 1500m runner as a kid iirc.

Dunno if Tommy has that on his toolbox but you can see the comparisons.

He also looks a lot like Luke Parker right now. Same haircut. Similar build.

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Thought the same thing. Even moves like him.