Player Watch #12: David Astbury - Has decided to retire

Remove this Banner Ad

SumTingWong said:
I'm not that concerned. Apart from Hogan none of these guys look like they will be any good to me. None of them can take a contested mark to save themselves. It was all dandy in the u/18's when they were playing on nobody but no good in the big time.
Click to expand...
You know how it works.They will play their best contested games against us,Just like Watts who only plays his best football against us.:D
 
Mr Magic said:
The worry for me with Elton at FB is simply too tall and not agile enough so agile forwards simply slip past him to easily plus small forwards would have a field day against him ball on the ground in terms of the general back line mix/support
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that role go to Rance? Shouldn't our our small and medium sized players be the ones who are accountable to opposition small fwds ?

Elton at 197cm is an ideal height to play key defender. It is also a good Height to play on resting ruckmen
Elton is a far more agile and quicker player than both Astbury and Chaplin you do him an injustice. At 101kg his size makes him ideal to play on the clokes and Hawkins of this world. He is extremely good in the air and can take a fine mark. Im not sure what is holding him back but he has most of the attributes needed to play on the bigger key forwards.
We need look no further than our own defensive coach to see what is required. Rutten was niether quick or agile he made up for that with great reading of the play and an ability to stand one v one and kill the ball.
Elton is just as agile and quick as players like McGovern and Mckenzie both 196cm and close to 100kg. Cale Hooker at Essendon says hello at 197cm and 100kg. Brian Lake was 195cm and 100kg. Alipate Carlisle is 192cm but a whopping 98kg.His team mate Trengrove is 197cm. Premiership play Grundy at Sydney is a whopping 106kg None of them are overly endowed with pace or agility.
It seems to me most clubs have and need a player of Eltons height and size.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

mopsy said:
Astbury and Chaplin are dinosaurs, Batchelor who is much shorter is one also.
Batchelor, Grimes Vlastuin , Chaplin provide stuff all run and carry. They have given very little in this area and Astbury wont help matters.
The only two players who have offered any sort of consistent run and rebound this yr have been Houli and Rance. It is for this reason they went and got Yarran.Lucky for us Houli improved significantly in this area in 2015 but Houli is not really a line breaker and when given a hard tag regularly struggles.

I still cant believe we would go into a season with Chaplin Astbury, Elton as the only back up to Rance.I cant believe we again do nothing to address this area.
Click to expand...


I thought that was why we picked up callum moore and Nathan broard ...I know they are a little shorter ...but other than Kieran Collins who we decided not to go with at 12 .who was available at 50 ??? ...this by the way is a genuine question ...
 
B: Batchelor, Astbury/Elton, Chaplin
HB: Grimes, Rance, Houli
C: B.Ellis, Vlastuin, Yarran
HF: Lennon, Riewoldt, Deledio
F: Edwards, Vickery, Martin
R: Maric, Cotchin, Miles
Int: McIntosh, Grigg, Insert 2 more mids

That's how we should do it to start off.
 
On another note if we have said Yarran (have we?) is going to play down back and we have also said Vlastuin will stay down back (I think this was said?) how are we planning to fit Chaplin, Rance, Batchelor, Houli and Grimes into the backline. From memory our backline players rarely changed position last year which would mean, provided they are all in the team, at least one of these players would need to be playing a different position.

I can only think one of two things... Yarran is not playing defence, Vlastuin is moving into the midfield... or possibly both and rotating.

Vlastuin could be a tough inside midfielder we need.
Yarran could be that fast small forward we need.

The backline isn't essential for these players, we should be focusing on winning games not saving them.
 
I would Love to see The Dugong running of HB, if he had a bit more body. Pace athleticism and endurance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Charlie Pannam said:
who are your other 4 that play alongside Chaplin and Astbury ? If your back line includes Batch and Vlasy i'd regard that as 4 pretty slow players (maybe a bit hard on Vlastuin).
Click to expand...
Yep no room for batch- All are quick enough apart from those 2 I mentioned.
Grimes Astbury Chaplin
Houli Rance Vlastuin
Yarran (7th defender)
 
mopsy said:
Wouldn't that role go to Rance? Shouldn't our our small and medium sized players be the ones who are accountable to opposition small fwds ?

Elton at 197cm is an ideal height to play key defender. It is also a good Height to play on resting ruckmen
Elton is a far more agile and quicker player than both Astbury and Chaplin you do him an injustice. At 101kg his size makes him ideal to play on the clokes and Hawkins of this world. He is extremely good in the air and can take a fine mark. Im not sure what is holding him back but he has most of the attributes needed to play on the bigger key forwards.
We need look no further than our own defensive coach to see what is required. Rutten was niether quick or agile he made up for that with great reading of the play and an ability to stand one v one and kill the ball.
Elton is just as agile and quick as players like McGovern and Mckenzie both 196cm and close to 100kg. Cale Hooker at Essendon says hello at 197cm and 100kg. Brian Lake was 195cm and 100kg. Alipate Carlisle is 192cm but a whopping 98kg.His team mate Trengrove is 197cm. Premiership play Grundy at Sydney is a whopping 106kg None of them are overly endowed with pace or agility.
It seems to me most clubs have and need a player of Eltons height and size.
Click to expand...
Eltons issue is he cant be a 1 on 1 defender just yet.
 
any chance of Elton being developed into a ruckman? if he is not smart enough for a defender or forward, surely he is smart enough for a ruck role? he looks like he moves ok around the field. but does Chol being rookied negate that chance?
I'd say Elton has 1 year left and needs to really show that he can be a key back or he will be moved on. Astbury will be given more chances but i'd say he has 2 years left
 
Dave is a very good AFL level defender, who keeps breaking bits of his body (knees). He has shown he can shut down good AFL KPFs, and can provide offensive impact. But, he has to be fit. When fully fit he is reasonably quick, not super fast though. So he is a risk, but could easily be first 22.

Elton has the tools. Big, strong, athletic, good aerialist. Not a great kick. Can see why the club wants him for a future defender. With good rebounders around him could be very good.

So, IMHO, Dave has more talent but known fitness problems. Elton, has potential.

The big thing is who do they replace?
Chaplin. Yep, he is slowing down and as the rest of the backline get more experienced his leadership and footy smarts should be more easily replaced. Right now Chappy adds a lot in terms of smarts and structure to our defence. But he is slowing down and could be easily passed I reckon. Maybe 2016, likely 2017. One of Astbury/Elton could come in and free Chaplin to play without an opponent. But then we are very tall down back.

Batch. Obviously in the gun. But he is nice player as he can play tall and small, adds rebound, and seems very tough. In the EF he just couldn't match a tall KPF. Happened a few times in his career. When we play him against genuine KPFs we have a weakness. For the mid seized role he is up against Grimes, and I reckon Grimes is much better. So I could easily see someone like Dave Astbury replacing Batch. Just because he can take those talls.

If Astbury/Elton can get their form up enough they will get a spot. It's obviously in the plan. But right now they have to force out players established in our back 6. Only real show is against teams with 3 KPFs, like North. Batch then gets dropped for a genuine tall KPD.
 
mopsy said:
Wouldn't that role go to Rance? Shouldn't our our small and medium sized players be the ones who are accountable to opposition small fwds ?

Elton at 197cm is an ideal height to play key defender. It is also a good Height to play on resting ruckmen
Elton is a far more agile and quicker player than both Astbury and Chaplin you do him an injustice. At 101kg his size makes him ideal to play on the clokes and Hawkins of this world. He is extremely good in the air and can take a fine mark. Im not sure what is holding him back but he has most of the attributes needed to play on the bigger key forwards.
We need look no further than our own defensive coach to see what is required. Rutten was niether quick or agile he made up for that with great reading of the play and an ability to stand one v one and kill the ball.
Elton is just as agile and quick as players like McGovern and Mckenzie both 196cm and close to 100kg. Cale Hooker at Essendon says hello at 197cm and 100kg. Brian Lake was 195cm and 100kg. Alipate Carlisle is 192cm but a whopping 98kg.His team mate Trengrove is 197cm. Premiership play Grundy at Sydney is a whopping 106kg None of them are overly endowed with pace or agility.
It seems to me most clubs have and need a player of Eltons height and size.
Click to expand...


I don't think defences function as individually as some would like to believe. Sure there are individual match ups but come game time flexibility and the combination is critical IMO where experience like the strong Carlton back lines in the 1990's and slightly earlier and the flexibility of Geelongs become very important.

I actually think 197 cm is not an ideal to play key defender. The ideal height really is 193cm to 194cm but you can get exceptions at 195 and rarely 196cm.

If a player is 197cm and a KPP, unless a freak like Buddy that can play other roles, they really need to ruck to be an effective contributor, IMO, at the highest level in strong teams winning finals. If they can't ruck at that height they would at least need to be able to contribute forward as well. I have not discounted Eton as a forward pinch hitter either but some seem to think his kicking is not up to it yet. I think Elton will need to improve his overall game to make it IMO.

If I think quickly off the top of my head guys like Griffiths and Choi who can also play ruck where you can get a Broad or Moore helping as 3rd tall backman with Rance would have to have an advantage in terms of what they bring to the table at this stage potentially.

I am not sure Elton is as agile as McGovern in particular and McKenzie. McGovern is not 196cm but 195cm which helps explain his agility. Elton to me likes to run straight lines a little while McKenzie style is more of a pure backman. Lake was definitely more mobile and Carlisle and Rutten have not played in premiership teams or GF teams. Trengrove has gone in the ruck and Rutten did not play in grand finals either. Grundy would be more agile than Elton , he is 192cm but the Swans team was heavily balanced to forward and midfield strength for their competitiveness as well as other factors
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

tigerz18 said:
any chance of Elton being developed into a ruckman? if he is not smart enough for a defender or forward, surely he is smart enough for a ruck role? he looks like he moves ok around the field. but does Chol being rookied negate that chance?
I'd say Elton has 1 year left and needs to really show that he can be a key back or he will be moved on. Astbury will be given more chances but i'd say he has 2 years left
Click to expand...
Elton is Not tall enough to ruck...
 
Joey longshadow said:
I thought that was why we picked up callum moore and Nathan broard ...I know they are a little shorter ...but other than Kieran Collins who we decided not to go with at 12 .who was available at 50 ??? ...this by the way is a genuine question ...
Click to expand...
Nathan Broad is a running player just because he is tall it doesnt make him a key defender or mean he will play tall..
Callum Moore played primarily as a forward. He has good attributes to play down back that does not neccesarily mean we have taken a backman.

I was all for us targeting one of the kpd and tall defenders that were available in the trade period.As far as i know we didn't even make enquiries.

The player i hoped would be available at 50 was Markus Adams, we didn't get a crack at him he went second round..
At pick 50 and after, there were two kpd i really liked. 22 yo Michael Hartley imo was the best State league defender in the country, we could have had him at pick 50 or pick 67 the same can be said of Jesse Glass-McCasker who eventually went at pick 1 in the rookie draft..
Finally i was all for us using a pick on Collingwoods Lachlan Keefe Knowing we could not play him for 12 months.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Player Watch #12: David Astbury - Has decided to retire

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top