2011 Rate the coaches thread

[CAS79]

1 Mick Malthouse
2 Ross Lyon
3 Alistair Clarkson
4 Rodney Eade
5 John Worsfold 2011 or bust
6 Neil Craig 2011 or bust
7 Mark Harvey 2011 or bust
8 Brett Ratten 2011 or bust
9 Dean Bailey
10 Brad Scott
11 Matthew Primus
12 Michael Voss
13 Damien Hardwick
14 Guy McKenna 1st Year unproven
15 John Longmire 1st Year unproven
16 James Hird 1st Year unproven
17 Chris Scott 1st Year unproven

The man inherited a basket case, took no shortcuts with list development in 2010, left one of his better players out for discipline reasons, was 0-9 and finished the last 13 with 6 wins. There is a semblance of a game plan coming through and a new found respect for his club to fight.

take out win % out of this debate and Hardwick being rated last of the coaches who have coached a season is bullshit.

 

[estibador]

Winning percentage? You don't heard Essendon and Carlton fans bleating on about their winning % over the past 100+ years? I reckon less than 5% could tell you waht it was without googling it. But 95% plus could tell you how many premierships they've won.

Winning % is meaningless unless you convert it to flags.

But by the same token premierships aren't the sole measure of a coach's worth. I reckon if you offered the other 14 clubs the choice between Lyon and Worsfold/Clarkson they'd all take the former.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

But by the same token premierships aren't the sole measure of a coach's worth. I reckon if you offered the other 14 clubs the choice between Lyon and Worsfold/Clarkson they'd all take the former.

Retrospectively they are.

Lets be honest, ask any fan, coach, club president, player etc. which they prefer or rate higher and I would suggest most would say premiership>winning %.

Fact is they might take Lyon for various reasons but if he still fails to gain the ultimate, history will judge the other two as having achieved more and having been better or more successful coaches over their career.

 

[WCE_phil]

But by the same token premierships aren't the sole measure of a coach's worth. I reckon if you offered the other 14 clubs the choice between Lyon and Worsfold/Clarkson they'd all take the former.

Unless of course a premiership was coming with the latter.

 

[UrLordUnbeliever]

I don't agree with Ross Lyon in the top 5.
He stole a gameplan from Sydney, and, well, that's about it. Ok, that's a bit harsh. He's been really good at getting his team to play a certain way, and instilling a really tough attitude in them, which is great, but has got absolutely no tactics..
Their game plan has proven to be unseccessful and incapable of getting them a flag. They either have to change their game style or he's gotta go.

 

[Reckoner Tiger]

Because he has won so many flags right? The difference between losing grand finals and winning them could be the coach. He is merely average.

Average? Really?

He took a team that did not have the best list in the competition to 18-0 in the Home and Away season in 2009. They missed the flag that year by a narrow margin and some bad fortune.

In 2010 against all hardship and odds he had them focused enough, despite their deficiencies and 'horrible bottom 6' players, to get to a second consecutive Grand Final, which they could have won had the ball bounced differently on one occasion.

This man is a genius and should be only behind Malthouse at this stage, because Mick has delivered a flag, in reckoning of coaches. If Ross had one in the bag he'd be above and beyond #1.

Woosha is so much better than Ross, even though his team won the spoon last year and is likely to do so again, because West Coast were a single point better than their opponents in 2006?

Get a ****ing clue.

 

[blues4flag]

I don't agree with Ross Lyon in the top 5.
He stole a gameplan from Sydney, and, well, that's about it. Ok, that's a bit harsh. He's been really good at getting his team to play a certain way, and instilling a really tough attitude in them, which is great, but has got absolutely no tactics..
Their game plan has proven to be unseccessful and incapable of getting them a flag. They either have to change their game style or he's gotta go.

You mean the same gameplan which got them to within 2 goals of the premiership in 2009 and one point away from it in 2010?

Sorry bud, but this ranks up there with the worst posts I've ever seen on this site.

 

[estibador]

Their game plan has proven to be unseccessful and incapable of getting them a flag.

Ridiculous comment. The fact that a bit of luck didn't go their way in two incredibly tight finishes doesn't suddenly render their gameplan incapable of success.

If one of their players had kicked straighter or the ball had bounced their way at a crucial moment they could have had a premiership or two. Then I suppose according to your simplistic analysis their gameplan would magically become 'capable' despite the fact that it was still exactly the same.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Average? Really?

He took a team that did not have the best list in the competition to 18-0 in the Home and Away season in 2009. They missed the flag that year by a narrow margin and some bad fortune.

Mate that is arguable.

They have an absolutely star studded list.

Problem is poor list management decisions, avg drafting/trading in recent years and lack of blooding for younger players may see St Kilda drop away sharply after failing to achieve the ultimate glory.

We will have to wait till the end of either coaches career before we can judge them accurately.

Still for all the bagging of Woosh, he oversaw the rebuild of a bottom side into a team that won 1 flag and lost another by a kick.

Untill 2008 the Eagles had also played finals every year Worsfold had coached. TBH the game may have passed him by, but based on his coaching achievements to date he has Lyon covered.

 

[RockyBalboa]

1 Mick Malthouse
2 Ross Lyon
3 Alistair Clarkson
4 Rodney Eade
5 John Worsfold 2011 or bust
6 Neil Craig 2011 or bust
7 Mark Harvey 2011 or bust
8 Brett Ratten 2011 or bust
9 Dean Bailey
10 Brad Scott
11 Matthew Primus
12 Michael Voss
13 Damien Hardwick
14 Guy McKenna 1st Year unproven
15 John Longmire 1st Year unproven
16 James Hird 1st Year unproven
17 Chris Scott 1st Year unproven

I wonder how many would agree with Crazy Vossy above Hardwick?

 

[Slattery_20]

Only Malthouse, Lyon, Eade & Craig would be really hunted IMHO.

Half a dozen blokes could get up/back there with a good season; relaly can't rate Clarkson or Worsfold on 2 good years then backing it up with a string of bad ones; nor could you rate Harvey or Scott on one good year alone.

LOL SJ05...

EDIT: We might be in a very weird (possibly unique?) situation of only having one single premiership coach in the comp in 2012.
Malthouse, Thompson, Roos will be out; Worsfold & Clarkson borderline... Sheedy back... won't he love that.

 

[CousinOfModra]

This year Brad Scott will show that he has improved and also alot of people are saying that james hird is the key to the bomber and they are going to make the 8 this year!!! Dream on!! everyone will want his Head by at least round 9

on our *****.

I'd say that will be by the end of round five though. ;-)

 

[Hump 17]

I don't agree with Ross Lyon in the top 5.
He stole a gameplan from Sydney, and, well, that's about it. Ok, that's a bit harsh. He's been really good at getting his team to play a certain way, and instilling a really tough attitude in them, which is great, but has got absolutely no tactics..
Their game plan has proven to be unseccessful and incapable of getting them a flag. They either have to change their game style or he's gotta go.

This is one of the funniest things Ive read. You dont rate Lyon because all hes done is be really good at what coaches are meant to be really good at.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

Average? Really?

He took a team that did not have the best list in the competition to 18-0 in the Home and Away season in 2009. They missed the flag that year by a narrow margin and some bad fortune.

In 2010 against all hardship and odds he had them focused enough, despite their deficiencies and 'horrible bottom 6' players, to get to a second consecutive Grand Final, which they could have won had the ball bounced differently on one occasion.

This man is a genius and should be only behind Malthouse at this stage, because Mick has delivered a flag, in reckoning of coaches. If Ross had one in the bag he'd be above and beyond #1.

Woosha is so much better than Ross, even though his team won the spoon last year and is likely to do so again, because West Coast were a single point better than their opponents in 2006?

Get a ****ing clue.

this i agree with. worsfold inherited a not so bad list that ended up having one of the best midfields in the modern era. since it all fell apart so did he, he continued to be stubborn and one eyed and allowed those players that may be doing special favours for him to continue to play. this is the 4th year we're heading into, i honestly believe if worsfold wasnt the prodigy son of the club he wouldve been sacked at the end of last year.

what lyon and other coaches have done is tried to build a club that was down and managed to get to the gf. worsfold and his recruiters have made some laughable mistakes over the past 3 years. he isnt the best coach going around, theyd be a few way ahead of him including lyon, clarkson and malthouse.

do or die worsfold. it all depends on your selection for sunday, stick to last years mindframe and hes as good as gone in my eyes.

 

[tige19]

1. Malthouse
2. Thompson
3. Lyon
4. Hird
5. Craig

Would be the top 5. Expect Hird to rise in the not too distant future.

Why? because he coaches Essendon? you moron.

 

[Tas]

Show me your list dont just debate mine.

I don't have a list, I am just questioning your logic. I don't think Harvey is under pressure to perform this year either.

 

[HFF]

It's amazing how in the space of 12 months everything can turn "full circle".

For years the media, the experts, BF etc have trashed Malthouse as nothing more than an ordinary coach. He was incapable of building a great list, he only won premierships because he inherited a state side, he's had 10yrs to deliver etc and now all of a sudden he is the best coach in the biz and nobody can understand as to how he won't be coaching next year.

 

[Whatname]

1 Mick Malthouse
2 Ross Lyon
3 Alistair Clarkson
4 Rodney Eade
5 John Worsfold 2011 or bust
6 Neil Craig 2011 or bust
7 Mark Harvey 2011 or bust
8 Brett Ratten 2011 or bust
9 Dean Bailey
10 Brad Scott
11 Matthew Primus
12 Michael Voss
13 Damien Hardwick
14 Guy McKenna 1st Year unproven
15 John Longmire 1st Year unproven
16 James Hird 1st Year unproven
17 Chris Scott 1st Year unproven

Do you really think it is bust for a coach after one bad season when he has overseen the biggest list overhaul in the club's history, taken the club from 14th to 6th, had a shocking injury run pre season and has stockpiled some of the best young talent in the league.

 

[Alberton]

=1 Anyone from the Mark Williams school of coaching
..
..
17. The coach of the West Indies cricket team
18. Neil Craig

 

[Centurions]

It's amazing how in the space of 12 months everything can turn "full circle".

For years the media, the experts, BF etc have trashed Malthouse as nothing more than an ordinary coach. He was incapable of building a great list, he only won premierships because he inherited a state side, he's had 10yrs to deliver etc and now all of a sudden he is the best coach in the biz and nobody can understand as to how he won't be coaching next year.

I would love to see how Collingwood would be if they played a similar style of football to Geelong a few years back, still annoys me that their gameplan revolves around the boundary which results in shots for goal from poor positions and if they lost the GF last year would have been highlighted a lot more...they certainly do have the depth on thier list though (especially in terms of the bottom 7 or 8 of their 22) but I think it will be interesting to see what another more proactive coach would do with a Collingwood side

 

[Rollerball]

=1 Anyone from the Mark Williams school of coaching
..
..
17. The coach of the West Indies cricket team
18. Neil Craig

Well structured, objective analysis.

 

[Alberton]

Just helping to maintain the stereotype for you

 

[afc9798]

1. Malthouse-indisputable and would have a job wherever he wanted to go
2. Lyon- has got more out of his men than many could
3. Eade-Consistent, tough and has developed a strong game plan-lacks a couple of the right cattle.
4. Hardwick-had to do the hard yards with a very poor list and still kept focus, there's som,ething special about him-not sure what though.
5. Craig- Still needs to find a finals plan, but was just unlucky last year with the pre-season from hell and continued injuries.
6. Scott- Took an average list and improved their ability and plan
7. Clarkson-Underachieved and allowed his players to admire themselves for far too long.
8. Harvey-OK got to a final series, but should have done more with the cattle he had at his disposal.
9. Bailey-Has done a good solid job, this year should put him much higher given the talent on his books and another year under his belt.
10. Ratten-Quite simply make or break. Needs to find a forward line in a hurry and shore up the defence. Midfield is strong, but can't do all the work.
11. Worsfold-enough said, time is up
12. Voss- what's left to say....


Others need more time before a rating is fair.

 

[Crow-mo]

So we have some new coaches we have some coaches that have been around a bit, we have coaches who need to show something in 2011 or it maybe the end, so guess this thread is simple from 1-17 best to worst coaches in 2011


Ive already had some craziness posted on this subject on another board

Originally Posted by Vader
IMO, Craig is one of the best coaches in the AFL. I'd rank him as the 2nd best senior coach in the AFL in 2011, behind Malthouse. I'd have him behind Bomber Thompson too, but he's no longer a senior coach.

you missed all the good bits about Ross Lyon and Alastair Clarkson:

Clarkson & Lyon have both had the benefit of better cattle. Craig would kill to have someone like Reiwoldt or Franklin in his team.

Craig at least came up with some new tactics of his own, which can largely be held responsible for our successes in 2005 & 2006. Clarkson's 2008 midfield flood was an evolved version of Craig's tactics, modified slightly to suit Hawthorn's playing list.

Lyon has done nothing innovative at all - all he's done is copy Roos' gameplan, which he learned as an assistant coach at the Swans. Can you say "Mini-me"? ...

Not only does Lyon have a complete inability to innovate, he's also the worst list manager in the AFL since Gary Ayres.

Heck, if Lyon were a half decent coach then St Kilda would have won the flag last year. The players at his command are much better than Collingwood's

Eade is pretty much on-par with Craig. He hasn't been to the big dance since 1996 (and that didn't end well). Like Craig, his cattle just haven't been quite good enough to take that next step.

Roos I also rate on-par with Craig. I still think Roos is debatable - I think he was damn lucky to win a flag at all, given how much better Adelaide were in those years.

and of course, the blokes long standing disregard for Malthouse as a shonk means by default, Neil Craig is the best coach in the league.

I'm still waiting for a suggestion of a coach (other than Malthouse & Thompson) who is any better.

any ideas out there People? is there a better coach in the league not named Craig that Malthouse?

Lyon
Clarkson
Eade

who else?

 

[PAFC66]

11. Ummm how is Matthew Primus more proven than all the other first year coaches??

12. How do you place Michael Voss above Damien Hardwick? He has set that club back 5 years with his inept drafting.

Lol, mate he won more games than hardwick last year and he was only there for 2 months