List Mgmt. 2015 Trade/Draft/FA - SuperMegaUltraThread

[Sweet Jesus]

I'd have a crack at one of them contracted even. If their year keeps going the way it is I'd imagine just about everything would be for sale. JOM is an untouchable for them but coming off a year out you never know

What would you be willing to give up to get a contracted player from GC?

 

[dext]

What would you be willing to give up to get a contracted player from GC?

Depends where we finish for picks but JOM, a gun young midfielder which we need (depends how well his knee recovers), I would offer up one of my favourites like hurn (not going to happen now he's captain) or a mckenzie and our first(but top 5 maybe too much). there needs to be quality put up to satisfy both parties

 

[Selurs]

having a mature list

Mature list? Really? So, we've been younger on average than every team we've played this year, including the Bulldogs, and by almost two years to Freo. But sure, expect us to make finals on the back of that...

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Depends where we finish for picks but JOM, a gun young midfielder which we need (depends how well his knee recovers), I would offer up one of my favourites like hurn (not going to happen now he's captain) or a mckenzie and our first(but top 5 maybe too much). there needs to be quality put up to satisfy both parties

Sounds like a reasonable plan.

 

[Selurs]

Watching Burgoyne go nuts for the Hawks tonight makes you think how they got him - and the answer was to trade Williams, at the time their premier small forward and twice their leading goal kicker. Yes, his knees were stuffed, but the Bombers didn't know that (obviously).

I just wonder if we were to trade LeCras...I know he's a bit older than Williams was then, but he'd still be worth quite a bit to a team in the top 6, and the Hawks got Burgoyne for Williams so you'd expect a first round pick. A trade that could get us two picks in the top 20...that wouldn't be a bad way to start a rebuild (or provide ammunition to get one of the young guns out of Gold Coast/GWS).

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Mature list? Really? So, we've been younger on average than every team we've played this year, including the Bulldogs, and by almost two years to Freo. But sure, expect us to make finals on the back of that...

Yes. A mature list. Particularly when you look at the midfield, which is the glaring issue here.

The reality is that our best and most important players are in that sweet spot between 23 and 28. If we can't compete now, how is it going to get any easier?

I accept that losing Mackenzie and Brown put a massive hole in ther backline. But that doesn't excuse the midfield.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Watching Burgoyne go nuts for the Hawks tonight makes you think how they got him - and the answer was to trade Williams, at the time their premier small forward and twice their leading goal kicker. Yes, his knees were stuffed, but the Bombers didn't know that (obviously).

They also traded pick 9.

I just wonder if we were to trade LeCras...I know he's a bit older than Williams was then, but he'd still be worth quite a bit to a team in the top 6, and the Hawks got Burgoyne for Williams so you'd expect a first round pick. A trade that could get us two picks in the top 20...that wouldn't be a bad way to start a rebuild (or provide ammunition to get one of the young guns out of Gold Coast/GWS).

I agree that LeCras is tradeable but I'm not sure I follow your logic.

 

[Selurs]

That doesn't excuse the midfield.

Look, I agree that our midfield is lacking in top level talent. Clearly. But we do need to temper our expectation of what the team can achieve given the players that are taking the field each week. Our weakness is the midfield, but now we don't even have our strength in a strong defence.

It's likely that we'll be close to bottom six for average age on the field each week this year, and the correlation between average age and performance is very strong at AFL level.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Look, I agree that our midfield is lacking in top level talent. Clearly. But we do need to temper our expectation of what the team can achieve given the players that are taking the field each week. Our weakness is the midfield, but now we don't even have our strength in a strong defence.

How does the loss of key personnel in defence affect the midfield?

Priddis, Masten, Shuey, Wellingham, Gaff, Rosa, McGinnity. That is a mature midfield. Plus Selwood.

You can 'temper your expectations' if you like but I don't see how these guys have any excuses as a group.

The mix in the midfield has been misfiring for more than two seasons. And it's not improving. When does the penny drop? How long does it have to suck before you start making changes?

Sometimes you have to be willing to point the finger and say: 'That's shit.'

 

[salo]

Sometimes you have to be willing to point the finger and say: 'That's shit.'

yeah, sometimes.

and sometimes you just need to give it a rest.

 

[dajesmac]

How does the loss of key personnel in defence affect the midfield?

Priddis, Masten, Shuey, Wellingham, Gaff, Rosa, McGinnity. That is a mature midfield. Plus Selwood.

You can 'temper your expectations' if you like but I don't see how these guys have any excuses as a group.

The mix in the midfield has been misfiring for more than two seasons. And it's not improving. When does the penny drop? How long does it have to suck before you start making changes?

Sometimes you have to be willing to point the finger and say: 'That's shit.'

To be fair you left out Sheed and for some reason included McGinnity.

Hard to see how you can say the penny hasn't dropped when we've chased Conca and now Coniglio over the past year aswell as recruited heavily in midfielders (also trading for Yeo). Duggan and Sheed are two examples of guys we've started to pump games into even though they're probably not able to match the output of someone like Hutchings or Wellingham (both of whom are in and out of the side).

 

[dajesmac]

Does anyone think that if Gold Coast continue to plummet into this shit storm it may be easier to extract one of their players?

Imagine scoring the Coniglio & Bennell double in 2015 and 2016.

 

[Scotland]

Our best bargaining position with GC/GWS is if we finish lower on the ladder.

 

[Godfather32]

Our best bargaining position with GC/GWS is if we finish lower on the ladder.

We're giving it a good crack so far.

 

[kranky al]

Does anyone think that if Gold Coast continue to plummet into this shit storm it may be easier to extract one of their players?

Imagine scoring the Coniglio & Bennell double in 2015 and 2016.

As ken judge II is sent packing - the prodigal son guy mckenna returns - brings several young disaffected stars from gc and leads us to the top again

To the sounds of wailing and much gnashing of teeth from the perenially unsuccessful end of stirling highway

 

[Sweet Jesus]

To be fair you left out Sheed and for some reason included McGinnity..

To be fair to who?

I left out Sheed because he is still very young and therefore has some leeway. And I included McGinnity because he's been part of the 'mature midfield'.

What's the issue?

Hard to see how you can say the penny hasn't dropped when we've chased Conca and now Coniglio over the past year aswell as recruited heavily in midfielders (also trading for Yeo).

The penny hasn't dropped for some supporters. Like the bloke who doesn't want to criticise the midfield because our defence has been depleted. Go figure.

And if the penny has dropped for the coaches, there's not much sign of it onfield.

Duggan and Sheed are two examples of guys we've started to pump games into even though they're probably not able to match the output of someone like Hutchings or Wellingham (both of whom are in and out of the side).

Picking two recent first-round draft picks is surely par for the course.

 

[Godfather32]

As ken judge II is sent packing - the prodigal son guy mckenna returns - brings several young disaffected stars from gc and leads us to the top again

To the sounds of wailing and much gnashing of teeth from the perenially unsuccessful end of stirling highway

I can see this scenario playing out quite easily, I think McKenna would have the balls and the backing to do what needs doing as well.

 

[bombard]

Does anyone think that if Gold Coast continue to plummet into this shit storm it may be easier to extract one of their players?

Imagine scoring the Coniglio & Bennell double in 2015 and 2016.

I'M EMOTIONAL.

 

[dajesmac]

To be fair to who?

I left out Sheed because he is still very young and therefore has some leeway. And I included McGinnity because he's been part of the 'mature midfield'.

What's the issue?

The penny hasn't dropped for some supporters. Like the bloke who doesn't want to criticise the midfield because our defence has been depleted. Go figure.

And if the penny has dropped for the coaches, there's not much sign of it onfield.

Picking two recent first-round draft picks is surely par for the course.

Mcginnity isn't a midfielder is all.

And ah okay, I misinterpreted your post to mean you thought the coaches weren't doing enough to address our midfield which I think is a misconception.

Not sure about par for the course, both are clearly green and still learning the pace.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Mcginnity isn't a midfielder is all.

He's part of the mix, surely. But we can disregard him if you like.

And ah okay, I misinterpreted your post to mean you thought the coaches weren't doing enough to address our midfield which I think is a misconception.

Well, that depends how you define 'enough'.

It's not like there's been improvement, so are they doing enough?

Not sure about par for the course, both are clearly green and still learning the pace.

We're not contending. Our midfield is the glaring weakness. And we've got two kids, both first-round selections, both midfielders. I'd suggest it's pretty much a no-brainer to pick them.

 

[lewigie]

As ken judge II is sent packing - the prodigal son guy mckenna returns - brings several young disaffected stars from gc and leads us to the top again

To the sounds of wailing and much gnashing of teeth from the perenially unsuccessful end of stirling highway

Very interesting..

I can see this happening. I like Simpson but it does seem like this scenario has happened before !

 

[dajesmac]

He's part of the mix, surely. But we can disregard him if you like.

Well, that depends how you define 'enough'.

It's not like there's been improvement, so are they doing enough?

We're not contending. Our midfield is the glaring weakness. And we've got two kids, both first-round selections, both midfielders. I'd suggest it's pretty much a no-brainer to pick them.

Mcginnity has been playing as a defensive forward for several years now.

And yes true, but it's not like we are doing nothing and accepting mediocrity like many posters suggest.

I think the intention is clearly there, we just haven't been effective in fixing the issue.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Mcginnity has been playing as a defensive forward for several years now.

Sure. In practice, I don't think that's a million miles from being part of the midfield. But I take your point.

And yes true, but it's not like we are doing nothing and accepting mediocrity like many posters suggest.

I think the intention is clearly there, we just haven't been effective in fixing the issue.

Well, you'd hope the 'intention' is there. Otherwise there would be something very wrong.

My point is that we have a mature midfield group – there's no excuse of being young. It makes it much harder to defend sticking with the cattle we've got in there.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Mcginnity has been playing as a defensive forward for several years now.

And yes true, but it's not like we are doing nothing and accepting mediocrity like many posters suggest.

I think the intention is clearly there, we just haven't been effective in fixing the issue.

McGinnity is a midfielder in terms of his skill set and that's what matters in terms of measuring him against other prospective players. Like Cripps he's got the ability to play forward and probably doesn't have the skill set to play as a defender at AFL level.

McGinnity is either keeping a true forward or another genuine running player from the side. Either way...

 

[dajesmac]

McGinnity is a midfielder in terms of his skill set and that's what matters in terms of measuring him against other prospective players. Like Cripps he's got the ability to play forward and probably doesn't have the skill set to play as a defender at AFL level.

McGinnity is either keeping a true forward or another genuine running player from the side. Either way...

I'm not sure it's his skill set which dictates whether he is part of our midfield mix, he isn't part of the onball rotation.