Training 2017 Preseason

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notliondown said:
My gripe with Rocky was never the quantity of the possessions - contested or otherwise. In our team, with a noted lack of contested possessions being an element of our game for years, he's been the stand out. That doesn't make him great, but he's been one of our best no question.

Where that ranks him against the elite we won't know until he's surrounded by other players challenging for the same possession he gets.

My issue was and always has been more his decision making and cheap possessions. In being our most prolific ball handler he was the link in lots of plays. And while our game plan might have stunk, it became more and more obvious as the season wore on, Rocky was about racking up numbers, almost at any cost. He made poor decisions, and he put team mates under pressure. He was symptomatic of players playing for themselves.

Was he getting the ball out of respect or fear I don't know. But it was telling in losing sides week after week his high possession count affected the game very little. Yep we were down hill skiers in 2016. But getting to the bottom faster than everyone else doesn't make you better.

He's a far better player when he's part of a team. I just hope he remembers that this season.
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Perfectly summed up, thank you.


I didn't say he wasn't a very good midfielder, and the whole metres gained thing isn't what I was trying to point out with that earlier quote either, but how that game was seen and an aspect of his game I have noticed, which is many cheap ineffective short disposals. A lot of meaningless 'one, twos' and often demanding someone give him the ball when he's in no better position do do something useful.
This doesn't mean he's no good, and I didn't suggest that. It's an aspect of his game I'd like to see banished.
 
Cockliff38 said:
On the metres gained discussion - when referencing it journos "should" always cite the player's disposal efficiency for context.

I.E - Tom Cutler had 351 metres gained at 71 per cent efficiency, as the Lions toweled the Magpies by 250-points
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That might work sometimes, but I think rather a lot of long hopeful kicks to contests get counted as efficient disposals.

A neat stat would be how often a player's disposal is followed by a disposal from a teammate. Combining that with metres gained might be interesting.
 

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I am hoping for a rejuvenated Rocky in 2017. He has played hurt at times and also clearly demoralised by a range of factors, some quite obviously of his own doing. He has admitted as much. Sadly, captaincy does not suit Rocky - he needs to be freed from that role and taken off the leash. Under Fagan it will be a team first mantra and this could be a turning point in his "all chips in" development. Will be fascinating to see how his journey unfolds next season...
 
Fairley said:
I am hoping for a rejuvenated Rocky in 2017. He has played hurt at times and also clearly demoralised by a range of factors, some quite obviously of his own doing. He has admitted as much. Sadly, captaincy does not suit Rocky - he needs to be freed from that role and taken off the leash. Under Fagan it will be a team first mantra and this could be a turning point in his "all chips in" development. Will be fascinating to see how his journey unfolds next season...
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I do agree Fairley.

His retention and/or redemption is a completely different proposition if he is released of the captaincy. Despite early talk when he was elevated that he was a natural for the role, it has turned out not to be a good fit at all.
 
The debate on Rocky and his ability to play the game cannot be debated surely. He almost makes most teams on his ability to lay 10 tackles alone. He continued to show these numbers during the period where he himself admitted he was becoming despondant, showing how good he is at it when not even running at full noise. The accumulation debate needs no more clarification than to consider is it a better option to chip short and retain possession in a team where options are obviously scarce, or blaze away and watch it come back over your head. Some careful watching of his footage show his initial conscious efforts to find an attacking option early in the game become an almost habitual instinct as the game goes on to just try and retain it. I have played in many poor teams where the best blokes find themselves in tough spots because they have managed to get it and then realise they are void of options. So in a way we are crucifying him for simply getting it. He's a gun. Let's put that to bed. Question his ability to captain though because that is debateable. He's a lion though and he's our boy so let's get around him.
 
Surly Boy said:
Not sure if this has been posted yet...

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Great interview. With a bit of an insight into leading teams and leadership, a sense of ownership and players driving the standards. Things that have made the place a better environment to be around since Noble and Fagan have come onboard.
I think there seems to be a genuine air of excitement and possibility around the place that will hopefully take the group to new levels over the next few years.
It may not happen overnight, but it will happen.
 
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As TBD suggested, next in the list is Dayne Beams.
Latest Peter Ryan article on afl.com.au.

'I've never felt as passionate': Beams winning knee battle
Peter Ryan
December 21, 2016 6:00 PM

482008-tlsnewsportrait.jpg

Dayne Beams is confident the worst of his knee troubles are behind him

HE WILL have to manage a troublesome knee for the rest of his career, but gun Lions midfielder Dayne Beams is confident he can return to his best in 2017.

Beams only played six quarters last season as his knee tendinitis flared midway through 2016 despite surgery in November.

Forced back to the operating table, the problem was resolved as well as it could be, given the injury.

"[I'm] still going to have battles [and] still have to be very diligent with it," Beams told AFL.com.au.

"I'm going to have this problem for the rest of my career, but if managed it can be controlled."

I polarise people: Rockliff

Beams used his time on the sidelines in a productive manner, looking at ways he could improve his game and gearing his physical preparation to football.

"I've tapped into different areas and ways I can get better at game-specific stuff such as rotational power," Beams said.

"I'm yet to play much footy to see that come to fruition [but] I'm pretty confident that the work I have done is going to leave me in good stead.

"I'm confident I can get back to the best form I have showed throughout my career. That is definitely the aim."

With the frustration of last season behind him, Beams understands the critical role he can play as the club embarks on a new era in 2017.

He laughs at the thought he is the fifth oldest player on the list, however he is enjoying the level of responsibility being handed to the players and feels well equipped to accept it.

"At the stage we're at as a footy club, if you're not invested, you're really useless to us," Beams told AFL.com.au.

"I've never really felt as passionate about a footy club as I do now. I'm really keen to see us rise back up the ladder because I know what success tastes like."

The 26-year-old joined the Lions at the end of 2014 after establishing his reputation at Collingwood, where he won a best and fairest and played in a premiership in 110 games.

He was on the winning team with the Magpies in 69 per cent of his games and played in preliminary finals in each of his first four years.

Beams suspects an acceptance of losing may have crept in at the Lions, but he can sense a change in attitude early in the pre-season.

"A lot of guys are sick of it. I think it has got to the point where enough is enough, and things have got to change," Beams said.

"Guys have identified areas personally they need to work on to change what happens on the weekend."

The inclusion of Beams will be a big factor in altering what happens on the weekend with the Lions.

Beams is engaging and articulate, yet remains as driven as he was when he first arrived on the scene as a Gold Coast teenager to play 18 games in his first season with Collingwood.

He loves being a father to his daughter Ruby, and admits he has "chilled" in recent years as he has matured, marrying Kelly in November 2015.

It's helped him gain perspective on where he sits within the football club and the community.

"I'm really keen to help guide our younger guys because they're the ones that are going to take us back up the ladder," Beams said.

Dayne Beams is the fifth-oldest player on the Lions' list and he's only 26.
beams-portrait-620.jpg


The Lions have 11 teenagers on their list and 10 players yet to debut. They also have just seven players who have played more than 100 games.

Without overstating his position, Beams knows he is one of the players that will carry a load throughout the season.

"I guess I have got to the age now where I feel like I am an important piece of the puzzle," Beams said.

"I'm starting to get to the age where I am closer to the end than the start, so you feel that sense of panic.

"I don't want to finish my career near the bottom and I don't want my teammates who haven't experienced much success to do that as well.

Beams knows the first step for the Lions is to become consistent.

And he doesn't have to say how important he will be in making that happen.

"The aim for me is to play all the games this year," Beams said.

"I've done the work and done all the prep that I can and left no stone unturned. I've given myself the best possible chance."
 
notliondown said:
My gripe with Rocky was never the quantity of the possessions - contested or otherwise. In our team, with a noted lack of contested possessions being an element of our game for years, he's been the stand out. That doesn't make him great, but he's been one of our best no question.

Where that ranks him against the elite we won't know until he's surrounded by other players challenging for the same possession he gets.

My issue was and always has been more his decision making and cheap possessions. In being our most prolific ball handler he was the link in lots of plays. And while our game plan might have stunk, it became more and more obvious as the season wore on, Rocky was about racking up numbers, almost at any cost. He made poor decisions, and he put team mates under pressure. He was symptomatic of players playing for themselves.

Was he getting the ball out of respect or fear I don't know. But it was telling in losing sides week after week his high possession count affected the game very little. Yep we were down hill skiers in 2016. But getting to the bottom faster than everyone else doesn't make you better.

He's a far better player when he's part of a team. I just hope he remembers that this season.
Click to expand...

Just to take a little of what you said. I don't think his decision-making with the ball is poor. His main issue is as you pointed out, where he gets/demands the ball. Last season he was demanding the ball when he shouldn't have been and the end result were the cheap possessions and a fantasy score which probably wasn't reflective of his worth on game day. I doubt there will be any of that under Fagan.

What I like about Rocky is that he can extract the ball well, has fast and clean hands, disposes of the ball well by foot and is handy in the forward line. Seeing 20+ games from the likes of Rockliff, Beams, Christensen will go a long way to improving the team and giving us more consistency in performances.
 
Elixuh said:
Just to take a little of what you said. I don't think his decision-making with the ball is poor. His main issue is as you pointed out, where he gets/demands the ball. Last season he was demanding the ball when he shouldn't have been and the end result were the cheap possessions and a fantasy score which probably wasn't reflective of his worth on game day. I doubt there will be any of that under Fagan.

What I like about Rocky is that he can extract the ball well, has fast and clean hands, disposes of the ball well by foot and is handy in the forward line. Seeing 20+ games from the likes of Rockliff, Beams, Christensen will go a long way to improving the team and giving us more consistency in performances.
Click to expand...
The thing that got me last season was he was getting big numbers and many equate big numbers to a good game. But he was turning it over a lot or doing nothing with it and actually playing pretty poorly.

I am sure what happened at trade period was a big wake up call to him, the afl industry is a small community. I have an opinion on the guy, but it is totally in his court if he turns it around. Here is hoping his actions back up his words.
 

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winged1 said:
The thing that got me last season was he was getting big numbers and many equate big numbers to a good game. But he was turning it over a lot or doing nothing with it and actually playing pretty poorly.

I am sure what happened at trade period was a big wake up call to him, the afl industry is a small community. I have an opinion on the guy, but it is totally in his court if he turns it around. Here is hoping his actions back up his words.
Click to expand...

I think much of it is a symptom of him demanding the ball where/when he shouldn't and the fact that the team was so so poor last season. I agree, he was producing some big numbers but they weren't really reflective of any sort of dominance or w/e.
 
Lionheart182 said:
Why you try and argue about Rockys importance on the field is beyond me. Should be one of the faves for the B&F next year I reckon along with Beams, Zorko, Martin and Robbo.
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Still @ $50 for the Brownlow ;)

Could be in the teens with a ripper pre-season, removing the burden of captaincy and a solid start against Gold Coast & Essendon :thumbsu:
 
Panthera said:
Still @ $50 for the Brownlow ;)

Could be in the teens with a ripper pre-season, removing the burden of captaincy and a solid start against Gold Coast & Essendon :thumbsu:
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I'll back him at 50s

Rocky is a GUN and i personally would take him in the pies mids. Just behind Pendlebury and Treloar. But he is a gun.
Put it this way, he'd be the Hawks best midfielder.
 
toxic said:
I'll back him at 50s

Rocky is a GUN and i personally would take him in the pies mids. Just behind Pendlebury and Treloar. But he is a gun.
Put it this way, he'd be the Hawks best midfielder.
Click to expand...

We need to see a betting slip to show us you really love him.
 
Key Lion predicts miserable season
Ryan Peters
December 26, 2016 4.30am

SENIOR Brisbane Lion Dayne Schachliff has battled poor form and disappointing results in recent seasons, and expects his team will remain near the bottom of the ladder in 2017.

‘Mate, I’ve never seen the boys so down. Even the ritual hazing of the draftees felt a bit forced’

'Let’s face it. We’re not premiership contenders. Not much point going full tilt at training’

When asked whether the chance for a new role has reinvigorated his enthusiasm for the game, Schachliff was positive.

‘Bleeding oath. With everybody decent injured, out of form, or having left for a better team, that means I’ll finally get a good crack in the midfield. And that’ll add a few zeros to my next contract.’

‘Not at this club, mind you.’

Chris Fagan has already had a major impact, and Schachliff had plenty to say about the new coach.

‘Half the blokes can’t understand what this guy is talking about.’

‘What the hell is continuous improvement? Is that just, like, getting better and stuff?’

Schachliff, one of the team’s veterans having been on Brisbane’s list for two seasons, has relished taking more of a leadership role.

‘The other day I showed one of the new guys how to make a private snapchat account. That’ll head off all sorts of problems.’

‘Blowed if I can remember his name though. Hugo, maybe?’

When asked about his personal expectations for the season, Schachliff was measured and realistic.

‘Just getting through 22 games would be a bonus.’

‘Plus I’ve got this dull pain in my right knee that I should probably tell the physio about, but I’m worried they might cross me out of the round one team’

‘Crap’ finished Schachliff after being informed he was speaking to a reporter and this entire conversation was on the record.
 

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