Training 2019 Training - pics, reports etc

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gbatman said:
Big fan of him, big part of their premiership, love his ability and hunger to apply pressure, he's always in the game. I wasn't talking about Gibbon's kicking length but his accuracy, a lot of missed kicks in these highlight's packages. No doubt things can be improved but that will be something I will be keen to observe.

The tall midfielder has come into fashion because they fit into a zone/team defence structure really well but with pressure being such a big thing in footy now smaller players are becoming popular as well because of their ability to do everything quicker and hence apply pressure better and handle/avoid pressure better than the taller players. I've always thought that one of our players I would want another one of the most would be Zac Fisher. Maybe I am getting my wish to some extent although Fisher is a weapon by foot.
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Gibbons could be a perfect fit - while opposition are trying to deal with beasts in Cripps, Kennedy & Setterfield (like bont & Libba) he may run under the radar & get left alone to do his job.
 

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TooBlue14 said:
No offence to Ed but he’s got nothing in terms of Scully when it comes to Ks. Scully regularly gets around 19 km. Ed around 13. Huge difference. I don’t even think Ed wins at Carlton each week.
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That’s nof endurance it has more to do with playing styles and roles. Scully is more attacking and therefore is on the go more,Ed plays more a tagging role and is therefore somewhat limited to what ground he covers because he’ll play closer to an opponent who doesn’t cover up be ground of a Scully.
 
gardiner stand said:
That’s nof endurance it has more to do with playing styles and roles. Scully is more attacking and therefore is on the go more,Ed plays more a tagging role and is therefore somewhat limited to what ground he covers because he’ll play closer to an opponent who doesn’t cover up be ground of a Scully.
Click to expand...
Therefore they aren’t same. My point made
 
gardiner stand said:
I thought your point was that Scully is a better runner because he clicks up more Kms. I’m saying he’s not and if Ed went head to head with him he’d keep up no worries.
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It started with a poster putting them in the same category. Endurance included I argued they are different including how many kms they do a game. Hopefully Russell can get Ed to make even further improvements to this. 2km extra per game is pretty big.
 
JustaBattler said:
Maybe Russell's first pre-season can get the players fitness levels up to semblance of 4 quarter football - this will be the first requirement of generating a genuine competitive list. If the players are fit enough to execute on basic skills - there is a chance for some sort of game plan to emerge. Russell may also be able to buy an extra year or so out of Murph and Kreuzer - which will be important for 2020/21.

If the midfield can halve the contests genuinely halve the contests over 4 quarters - there will be less pressure on the back six and more opportunity for what is shaping up to be an exciting forward line - between the arcs competitiveness and enough fitness to stop teams rebounding length of field by simply outrunning Carlton players - will be a huge improvement in itself - enough to 'elevate' the side into genuine middling status.

I don't think there is much to be gained looking at individual players and pointing fingers - all should benefit from improved fitness levels and therefore make every player's job easier to execute on. I don't think there are any mids right now who have the capability or endurance strength and fitness levels to impact on a game as Judd did for WC in his early years - there are just bits and pieces of this and that to built upon over time - I hope they all improve their ability to stick a tackle - that to me was the most disturbing indicator of just how uncompetitive the midfield group was last year.

I cant see a combination of a fit Kreuzer/Cripps/Kennedy/Ed losing contested game too badly - Dow/Fisher/SPS/Cuningham(SOJ) LoB/Murph - should all be able to lift their time on ground effectiveness - the surprises if any might come from Walsh and a fit Setterfield.

The back 6 structure will be the Achilles heal in the game plan - Bolton will have to conjure something up - it wont be enough to pray that Weitering can do it all himself - I hope I'm wrong but it looks like Marchbank and Williamson look unlikely to be ready to play their best early on in the season if at all.
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JAB your emphasis on fitness levels impacting skills and the flow on effects is spot on IMO. Looking holistically at the list , having AR on board brings the fitness levels up of every player- the old saying " a rising tide lifts all boats" applies here, where his impact will be on 42 players- even Ed has said as much, that AR has smoothed out his running and he has become less "cluncky" . So that is a MASSIVE lift just there- the fact that the whole list is collectively becoming fitter. In a game of inches, every little 1% improvement counts. If that 1% comes from the existing players - even those that we would have judged to be very fit in 2018 eg Kreuzer, Murphy, Cripps, Ed etc then the lift comes from every competitor. Of course many of the younger players are really going to surge under AR and the improvement wont just be incremental, but astounding. I am anticipating this sort of improvement from players such as SPS, DOW LOB, Fisher etc.

The second aspect is our recruiting. It seems to me that more recently we have brought in players such as LOB and Walsh, cottrell that have elite aspects to their running. Add that to the curnows, Murphy , cripps and we are starting to form a nucleus of players that will go all day. You need some elite runners to take the pressure off the rotations, so that the less fit players can be given the rotations that they need- but again, having AR means that these less fit players dont need as much protection as they used to. Looking at players such as Jack, Dow, SPS, Fisher, who's fitness seems to have really come on this preseason.
We still have some fitness problem areas though to key players- Marchbank, Williamson, Pickett, Setterfield.
 
Quick question: How frequent are open training sessions?

Club did a fantastic job over the school holidays.

Are the clubs doors only open in April and July or will there be other sessions in-between?
 
therubbernub said:
JAB your emphasis on fitness levels impacting skills and the flow on effects is spot on IMO. Looking holistically at the list , having AR on board brings the fitness levels up of every player- the old saying " a rising tide lifts all boats" applies here, where his impact will be on 42 players- even Ed has said as much, that AR has smoothed out his running and he has become less "cluncky" . So that is a MASSIVE lift just there- the fact that the whole list is collectively becoming fitter. In a game of inches, every little 1% improvement counts. If that 1% comes from the existing players - even those that we would have judged to be very fit in 2018 eg Kreuzer, Murphy, Cripps, Ed etc then the lift comes from every competitor. Of course many of the younger players are really going to surge under AR and the improvement wont just be incremental, but astounding. I am anticipating this sort of improvement from players such as SPS, DOW LOB, Fisher etc.

The second aspect is our recruiting. It seems to me that more recently we have brought in players such as LOB and Walsh, cottrell that have elite aspects to their running. Add that to the curnows, Murphy , cripps and we are starting to form a nucleus of players that will go all day. You need some elite runners to take the pressure off the rotations, so that the less fit players can be given the rotations that they need- but again, having AR means that these less fit players dont need as much protection as they used to. Looking at players such as Jack, Dow, SPS, Fisher, who's fitness seems to have really come on this preseason.
We still have some fitness problem areas though to key players- Marchbank, Williamson, Pickett, Setterfield.
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Yep - I think that over the last couple of years the list wasn't anywhere near fit enough. Hopefully that long list of players now fitter - will show that they can be good enough too.

On your last sentence re Marchbank Williamson Pickett and Setterfield - add Docherty too. Major cross fingers time on those players - any of whom would make a huge difference to competitiveness and class - but I've pencilled them all out of 2019 calculations ( if not forever) - to spare myself ongoing angst.
 

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JustaBattler said:
The problem with Jones is his lack of between the ears as far as playing football goes
Click to expand...

You may be right, but I dont think you can conclude this for sure. The lack of structure last year due to injuries and inexperienced and frankly unskilled standin players, meant that Jones was caught out of position multiple times. But was that due to the failures of the standins or was it his judgement? I want to see how he goes this year, and in particular , next year, once Doc is back and playing the General role down back. His athleticism is amazing- i think it was the first time he played on Tom Lynch v gold coast and he really gave Lynch a bath due to his athleticism . He has good disposal when composed. He just need to operate in a back line that is functioning correctly.
 
TooBlue14 said:
It started with a poster putting them in the same category. Endurance included I argued they are different including how many kms they do a game. Hopefully Russell can get Ed to make even further improvements to this. 2km extra per game is pretty big.
Click to expand...

There you go, missed that point again I think.

You don't know if Ed is already capable of clocking upwards of 17km in a game. As it stands, he plays a run with role in the midfield, so his job is to stick to a bloke who is doing 13-15km, and match them stride for stride. Scully is the bloke on the outside, running a less athletic opponent ragged by covering 30% more ground than they could ever hope to cover.

No doubt that Russell can help Ed improve further, but using the distance covered in-game to compare two players who fill markedly different roles is flawed.
 
BJuddy said:
Jones is a bit hard done by on here by a few IMO. Still somewhat of a whipping boy. The position he played last year was intercept defender, when people we crying out for him to be a lockdown defender. You can't blame the guy for following instructions. This made him look 10 times worse than he actually was. Consistently out of position, but from my eye this was from the lack of midfield pressure and flooding.

100% agree that football instinct is not his forte. Every player has limitations and this one can be a big on. But if we can get Doc back then Jones could skyrocket again. Hopefully this year Weits grows in confidence and becomes the backline leader he was always going to be. If He can help Jones out with positioning and when to go Jones could very well be back to his best. (Which IMO was AA level under Docs leadership.)
Click to expand...

No one wants Jones to fail and everyone was impressed with his first year in defense - and suggesting ( maybe) Jones isn't particularly clever isn't a reach nor is it being harsh.

Looking at last year's efforts supplies some context to what can be reasonably be expected of him this year.

The general view is either Jones isn't very clever or he was given poor instruction and maybe not the support he required from other players around him to execute on instruction properly.

Now if the discussion moves to what support he will have in 2019 V 2018 - there is still no Docherty but there is also no O'Shea or Mullett.Right now there is no Marchbank either and there are question marks about Williamson.

So leadership is going to boil down to - you say Weitering - who because is a #1 pick has to shoulder the responsibility of not only playing his own game but also cover for Jones and tell him what to do. Is Weitering the FB or CHB or the interceptor or the swing man to go forward again ? What role does Weitering have?

Which segues into the elephant in the room issue of on field general back there- everyone loves Simpson - how effective was he in leading the back six last year? How much did Thomas's 'experience' count for?

The only good news I can see through this pre-season is that Amos is back there coaching the back six- because whoever was doing it last year was asleep on the job.

#1 issue for me is who takes kick in responsibilities and will there be alternative strategies to Simpson getting ball faking to his right running 6 meters and slicing a kick to the edge of the 50 meter arc to a packed and waiting opposition - allowing the flood into the corridor - rinse and repeat over and over...?

#2 Who are the potential runners; and

#3 how do we get the ball into Weitering's or Jones's hands so they can kick to advantage of our midfield - what were the reasons that saw Weitering go from excellent penetrating kick to advantage - to hesitant slow awkward stabbing kick sideways - after opposition was allowed to set up?

Bolton needs to put in place some run and carry back there as well as provide tactics to free blokes who can actually make penetrating kicks- this precludes both Simpson and Thomas from fast rebound play - based on what they showed last year. Defending an incoming ball is trivial compared to getting out of the defensive 50 at something faster than a snail's pace - Rance is a decent stopper - but a great rebound kick. he is porepared to run and carry and kick it long to advantage or space - Calrton needs some basic football coming out of the defensive arc - but to do this - you need younger legs who can actually roost it 50-60 meters as required - not pertend that dinky sideways passes to a team mate already marked is a good disposal.

Jones is the least of our problems.
 
JustaBattler said:
No one wants Jones to fail and everyone was impressed with his first year in defense - and suggesting ( maybe) Jones isn't particularly clever isn't a reach nor is it being harsh.

Looking at last year's efforts supplies some context to what can be reasonably be expected of him this year.

The general view is either Jones isn't very clever or he was given poor instruction and maybe not the support he required from other players around him to execute on instruction properly.

Now if the discussion moves to what support he will have in 2019 V 2018 - there is still no Docherty but there is also no O'Shea or Mullett.Right now there is no Marchbank either and there are question marks about Williamson.

So leadership is going to boil down to - you say Weitering - who because is a #1 pick has to shoulder the responsibility of not only playing his own game but also cover for Jones and tell him what to do. Is Weitering the FB or CHB or the interceptor or the swing man to go forward again ? What role does Weitering have?

Which segues into the elephant in the room issue of on field general back there- everyone loves Simpson - how effective was he in leading the back six last year? How much did Thomas's 'experience' count for?

The only good news I can see through this pre-season is that Amos is back there coaching the back six- because whoever was doing it last year was asleep on the job.

#1 issue for me is who takes kick in responsibilities and will there be alternative strategies to Simpson getting ball faking to his right running 6 meters and slicing a kick to the edge of the 50 meter arc to a packed and waiting opposition - allowing the flood into the corridor - rinse and repeat over and over...?

#2 Who are the potential runners; and

#3 how do we get the ball into Weitering's or Jones's hands so they can kick to advantage of our midfield - what were the reasons that saw Weitering go from excellent penetrating kick to advantage - to hesitant slow awkward stabbing kick sideways - after opposition was allowed to set up?

Bolton needs to put in place some run and carry back there as well as provide tactics to free blokes who can actually make penetrating kicks- this precludes both Simpson and Thomas from fast rebound play - based on what they showed last year. Defending an incoming ball is trivial compared to getting out of the defensive 50 at something faster than a snail's pace - Rance is a decent stopper - but a great rebound kick. he is porepared to run and carry and kick it long to advantage or space - Calrton needs some basic football coming out of the defensive arc - but to do this - you need younger legs who can actually roost it 50-60 meters as required - not pertend that dinky sideways passes to a team mate already marked is a good disposal.

Jones is the least of our problems.
Click to expand...

Some great points. And I agreed with most of them.

Perhaps the way i have written somethings may leave room for misinterpretation. I don't for one second doubt that people want jones to succeed. From where I sit I think he is an easy target and gets scrutinised probably more than others.

Amos being back as defensive coach was some of the best news I have heard this off season.

I don't pretend to know what the coaches are putting up on the drawing board but yes Thomas and Simmo are probably not the two I would have take kick in responsibilities and I think perhaps Simmo did a lot more last year due to the Plowman injury, and I can see him taking more responsibility for kick in duties.

Newman and LOB can ran and carry and would like to see them used for this and perhaps Soapy V's idea of using Garlett as a HBF might work as well.

With Weits I didnt say he should be a leader cause he was #1 Pick. I say that because he is a Leader by nature, just wanna see his confidence back. Shame to see him IMO stuffed around, but I have no doubts he will overcome and continue to grow into an elite level footballer.

As I said I agreed with a lot of you points, but I think you have overlooked the Plow which is a big key as he is a great footballer and fantastic user of the football.
 
JustaBattler said:
No one wants Jones to fail and everyone was impressed with his first year in defense - and suggesting ( maybe) Jones isn't particularly clever isn't a reach nor is it being harsh.

Looking at last year's efforts supplies some context to what can be reasonably be expected of him this year.

The general view is either Jones isn't very clever or he was given poor instruction and maybe not the support he required from other players around him to execute on instruction properly.

Now if the discussion moves to what support he will have in 2019 V 2018 - there is still no Docherty but there is also no O'Shea or Mullett.Right now there is no Marchbank either and there are question marks about Williamson.

So leadership is going to boil down to - you say Weitering - who because is a #1 pick has to shoulder the responsibility of not only playing his own game but also cover for Jones and tell him what to do. Is Weitering the FB or CHB or the interceptor or the swing man to go forward again ? What role does Weitering have?

Which segues into the elephant in the room issue of on field general back there- everyone loves Simpson - how effective was he in leading the back six last year? How much did Thomas's 'experience' count for?

The only good news I can see through this pre-season is that Amos is back there coaching the back six- because whoever was doing it last year was asleep on the job.

#1 issue for me is who takes kick in responsibilities and will there be alternative strategies to Simpson getting ball faking to his right running 6 meters and slicing a kick to the edge of the 50 meter arc to a packed and waiting opposition - allowing the flood into the corridor - rinse and repeat over and over...?

#2 Who are the potential runners; and

#3 how do we get the ball into Weitering's or Jones's hands so they can kick to advantage of our midfield - what were the reasons that saw Weitering go from excellent penetrating kick to advantage - to hesitant slow awkward stabbing kick sideways - after opposition was allowed to set up?

Bolton needs to put in place some run and carry back there as well as provide tactics to free blokes who can actually make penetrating kicks- this precludes both Simpson and Thomas from fast rebound play - based on what they showed last year. Defending an incoming ball is trivial compared to getting out of the defensive 50 at something faster than a snail's pace - Rance is a decent stopper - but a great rebound kick. he is porepared to run and carry and kick it long to advantage or space - Calrton needs some basic football coming out of the defensive arc - but to do this - you need younger legs who can actually roost it 50-60 meters as required - not pertend that dinky sideways passes to a team mate already marked is a good disposal.

Jones is the least of our problems.
Click to expand...

A simpler plan.

1. Get 6 players of varied body types back there, none of whom is an outright liability.
2. Keep them healthy

Continuity in the back half is THE most important building block to move a bottom side upwards. Far more important than the total skill level (assuming none of the six is an outright potato)
 
Windhover said:
Is that the same B Hill who broke the beep test record with a 16.1 in the Draft Combine and ran 9.52 for 3 km, finishing first?

I am happy to have Russell but the myth-making that is going on is extraordinary.
Click to expand...
I’m stoked with the Russell appointment but I think people are seriously getting carried away. If you look at Hawthorn they literally only had two great runners and they where drafted as great runners already. I’m not arguing that he can’t get the best out of players bodies but there is a limit of gains you can achieve and it’s a lot smaller than I think some believe.
 
Laphroaig said:
A simpler plan.

1. Get 6 players of varied body types back there, none of whom is an outright liability.
2. Keep them healthy

Continuity in the back half is THE most important building block to move a bottom side upwards. Far more important than the total skill level (assuming none of the six is an outright potato)
Click to expand...

Can't argue with keep it simple and play fit blokes.

Will be interesting to see who is actually fit to play in round one for sure - but betting on Simpson or Thomas to run the thing or kick it over a press is not what I would call a 'strong hand' or developing for the future - opposition loved ithat set up almost as much as seeing O'Shea and Mullett picked.

Plowman Jones XXX
XXX Weitering XXX

you fill in the gaps from: Newman/Simpson/Thomas/Jack/Cuningham/Garlett/Goddard/Kerr and prayers for Marchbank/Williamson/McCreadie ( who has been the invisible man this pre-season)
 

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