Training 2023 Pre Season

[phantom13]

That’s just not true.

Battle played on Miocek round one and was well beaten. After that Wilkie almost always played on the second tall.

Against Geelong for example it was Wilkie that went to Cameron and Howard to Hawkins.

I really can’t see how a month as a forward isn’t going to derail his career. Picking the best side to get off to a good start to the season is what we really should be looking at.

Except the game that Dougal got injured and Battle took his opponent (and kept him goalless)?

Forward structures dont always play out as simply as Geelong, Collingwood is the perfect example where they dont have a proper key forward.

Everyone undersold Battles one on one winning percentage this year as him playing on the third or fourth forward and ultimately all defence and offence rotates now.

Hes settled down back, ****ing him around for four week is not what i want but were not choosing, whatever works for the team is fine by me.

 

[bird_man]

Except the game that Dougal got injured and Battle took his opponent (and kept him goalless)?

Forward structures dont always play out as simply as Geelong, Collingwood is the perfect example where they dont have a proper key forward.

Everyone undersold Battles one on one winning percentage this year as him playing on the third or fourth forward and ultimately all defence and offence rotates now.

Hes settled down back, ******* him around for four week is not what i want but were not choosing, whatever works for the team is fine by me.

So he only got given the role playing on a genuine key forward when Howard went down and then we brough Joyce in to play Howard’s role?

I don’t think pointing out the fact that Battle rarely took the best key forward had a lot to do with his winning percentage is underselling him, it’s just fact.

I’m a huge Battle fan, was a big backer of him going back into defence to get him settled, but also a realist. He is a fair way off making it as a genuine key defender and we have others that can fill his role as a third tall so he can help us forward for a month (or maybe more if it goes well)

 

[phantom13]

So he only got given the role playing on a genuine key forward when Howard went down and then we brough Joyce in to play Howard’s role?

I don’t think pointing out the fact that Battle rarely took the best key forward had a lot to do with his winning percentage is underselling him, it’s just fact.

I’m a huge Battle fan, was a big backer of him going back into defence to get him settled, but also a realist. He is a fair way off making it as a genuine key defender and we have others that can fill his role as a third tall so he can help us forward for a month (or maybe more if it goes well)

No, he showed in that instance what hes capable of, you yourself mentioned he started on Mihocek too so clearly we thought he was capable and he got beaten by Mihocek. Remembering its his first full year doing the role and he grew into it. Hes also a better attacking defender than Doogs imo so thats all part of the three of them playing as the tallish defenders.

The chemistry him, Doogs and Wilkie (noting Wilkie always takes the oppos most dangerous forward, which is not always a tall, eg Charlie Cameron) isnt something that just happens. Theyre comms and coverage for one another is really really important and moving Battle for 4 weeks (or longer) is a massive risk to me. Our backline has 100% been the shining light of our lines for the last season so id prefer we dont **** with the structure for a temporary solution.

In any event, again, its not our call. I would prefer Battle forward is the absolute last option (behind even Sharman and Membrey just doing it) you would prefer different. It is what it is.

 

[phantom13]

Either outcome, i have alot more faith in Lyon, Enright and co. to make the right decision than i did in Ratts.

Thats a massive positive.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

I don’t see the harm in having him play a month forward. It may go the other way and we realise that that’s his best position.

Let’s be honest, he’s been solid as a defender but he’s hardly elite. He mostly takes the oppositions third best tall so he’s still not yet trusted to play a genuine key defender role.

Putting him back into defence was the best thing for him, especially the way Rattej used him in his time, but times have changed.

Yep it's been very overstated how good Battle has been as a defender. Solid without anything outstanding.

His best game by a country mile was the GWS game when he was in the ruck & roamed all over the ground.

With Cordy available as an experienced tall defender, I don't see why you wouldn't throw a bloke who has the potential to be a very good forward into that area of the ground (& give Roma a chop out too)

Although it sounds like RTB & co are happy to keep him in defence & use some part timers in the F50.

 

[phantom13]

Yep it's been very overstated how good Battle has been as a defender. Solid without anything outstanding.

His best game by a country mile was the GWS game when he was in the ruck & roamed all over the ground.

With Cordy available as an experienced tall defender, I don't see why you wouldn't throw a bloke who has the potential to be a very good forward into that area of the ground (& give Roma a chop out too)

Although it sounds like RTB & co are happy to keep him in defence & use some part timers in the F50.

I can see both sides of the argument but ive noted that the chemistry of the defence is really important too, if you dont see that as a potential downside to moving him then im not sure what to tell you.

It might be a good option, i certainly dont think it is, but youre kidding yourself if you think it doesnt involve risk.

Battle is nothing like Cordy so youre really re structuring the whole backline to swap Battle forward and bring in Cordy down there. That risk doesnt exist up forward because our structure is already cooked with no King or Hayes.

One is a stop gap, the other is completely redoing a line that has been really really good for us.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Dougal was chained to the goal post and had to watch everyone else take kick outs.

he'd be like a rabid dog pulling at the leash to get at the postie

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I’m a huge Battle fan, was a big backer of him going back into defence to get him settled, but also a realist. He is a fair way off making it as a genuine key defender and we have others that can fill his role as a third tall so he can help us forward for a month (or maybe more if it goes well)

I don't think they want him to be a key defender anyways. I think he's being built to be the 3rd ish defender but interceptor like Tom Stewart.

 

[Joffaboy]

View attachment 1601073

Who are these campaigners

One is that Cameron campaigner from the Big Bash and the other is Ray Shoesmith from Mr Inbetween

 

[phantom13]

I don't think they want him to be a key defender anyways. I think he's being built to be the 3rd ish defender but interceptor like Tom Stewart.

I think hes more capable of playing on a proper key forward than Stewart but overall youre absolutely right. Our defensive structure is built way more around felxibility and those three (Howard, Wilkie and Battle) all being fairly adaptable is a big part of that.

 

[longlivelenny]

Both played 20 last year and while I’m no mathematician that probably means they played a lot of games together. Don’t think it’s a “one or the other” situation with Paton and Webster at all.

It will be if coff is becomes a lock in the back 6

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I think hes more capable of playing on a proper key forward than Stewart but overall youre absolutely right. Our defensive structure is built way more around felxibility and those three (Howard, Wilkie and Battle) all being fairly adaptable is a big part of that.

I may have prattled on about it a few times already but I'm so intrigued by how our defensive structure can fit all our similar players.

Howard and Wilkie are locks as key defenders

Sinclair a lock in his all australian role as the running rebounding half back

Brad Hill is gone from the wing but Nasiah has been moved there as his replacement as the second running rebounding half back

1 spot for Paton or Webster as the lockdown on a small forward (necessary cause sinclair and nas aren't really 1on1 defenders)

Battle as the 3rd tall/intercept marker/rebounding tall but we need to fit Coffield and Highmore whose strengths lie in intercepting but not key defending

we have others obviously but these are the players that deserve to be in the 22 or could genuinely contribute.

 

[phantom13]

I may have prattled on about it a few times already but I'm so intrigued by how our defensive structure can fit all our similar players.

Howard and Wilkie are locks as key defenders

Sinclair a lock in his all australian role as the running rebounding half back

Brad Hill is gone from the wing but Nasiah has been moved there as his replacement as the second running rebounding half back

1 spot for Paton or Webster as the lockdown on a small forward (necessary cause sinclair and nas aren't really 1on1 defenders)

Battle as the 3rd tall/intercept marker/rebounding tall but we need to fit Coffield and Highmore whose strengths lie in intercepting but not key defending

we have others obviously but these are the players that deserve to be in the 22 or could genuinely contribute.

To me the whole structure now is settled around those three (Howard, Battle and Wilkie) and most of it comes from their ability to play on a host of different types of players. Wilkie especially just takes the best forward (not always a tall mind you) which generates a bit more freedom for all of them. Sincs knows he can go for a jog and get a kick because he knows even if he leaves his (likely) small forward with a Howard that Doogs can acquit himself pretty well. Doogs can play well on a small and still be okay going forward (hes the weakest from an attacking defender POV to me). Wilkie is just a freak and can play on and beat pretty much everyone and use the ball really well and Battle is pretty similar but probably has the most upside as an attacking defender (hes a beautiful field kick 90% of the time). With those three everyone has way more confidence to read the play and impact it rather than just worrying about a single man.

Sincs is a lock other spots to me are up for grabs. Coff looked incredible in the pre season pre knee. Nas could be a wing, high HF or HBF, Web, Paton even Hotton when hes right would all be in that mix for mine but the three talls are a lock because theyre so adaptable and so good one on one.

 

[bird_man]

I don't think they want him to be a key defender anyways. I think he's being built to be the 3rd ish defender but interceptor like Tom Stewart.

Definitely, that is how he was played last year.

Even so, he’s still only average in that role.

He rates average for intercept marks compared to Stewart who rates elite. He needs to improve on that if he’s going to become a quality third tall.

My dream has always been to pair Howard up with a genuine key defender and move Wilkie in that role.

 

[Significant]

Can't find the image, but Battle had either the least or second least amount of goals kicked on him of any key defender in the league last year (19 goals off the top of my head). Doesn't matter who he is playing against, think he isn't getting the kudos he deserves. And I think the Wilkie to Cameron, Walker, etc. was as much about taking a risk to play to Wilkie's strengths (defense, lockdown, accountable) as it was to play to Battle's (intercept, marking, third-in).

 

[saintmike65]

Any track watchers? Are Ro, Hunter and Phillipou on the track this morning?

Rohan Marshall did the full training session but Clark & Phillipou ran laps and had a kick to kick session..both seemed ok!

 

[Cairnsman]

Sharman will get a fwd gig unless injured I reckon

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the praccy matches but he's a fair way off the pace

 

[DougalHoward]

Rohan Marshall did the full training session but Clark & Phillipou ran laps and had a kick to kick session..both seemed ok!

Aren't they away on a camp?

 

[saintmike65]

Aren't they away on a camp?

Camp was last week.

 

[ESDR]

Rohan Marshall did the full training session but Clark & Phillipou ran laps and had a kick to kick session..both seemed ok!

Good news. Can't afford Rowan to be injured.

Any other players not complete training?

 

[#gosaintas]

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the praccy matches but he's a fair way off the pace

he doesn't look off the pace at training

well not to me anyway

 

[Joffaboy]

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the praccy matches but he's a fair way off the pace

Why do you say that? As fit as he has ever been and looked pretty good in the match sims

 

[bird_man]

No, he showed in that instance what hes capable of, you yourself mentioned he started on Mihocek too so clearly we thought he was capable and he got beaten by Mihocek. Remembering its his first full year doing the role and he grew into it. Hes also a better attacking defender than Doogs imo so thats all part of the three of them playing as the tallish defenders.

The chemistry him, Doogs and Wilkie (noting Wilkie always takes the oppos most dangerous forward, which is not always a tall, eg Charlie Cameron) isnt something that just happens. Theyre comms and coverage for one another is really really important and moving Battle for 4 weeks (or longer) is a massive risk to me. Our backline has 100% been the shining light of our lines for the last season so id prefer we dont * with the structure for a temporary solution.

In any event, again, its not our call. I would prefer Battle forward is the absolute last option (behind even Sharman and Membrey just doing it) you would prefer different. It is what it is.

Wilkie didn’t play on Charlie Cameron last year, I think you are thinking of 2021.

Wilkie played the majority of 2022 as a genuine key defender.

 

[bird_man]

It will be interesting to see how he goes in the praccy matches but he's a fair way off the pace

Very different to other reports we are hearing

 

[saintmike65]

Rohan Marshall did the full training session but Clark & Phillipou ran laps and had a kick to kick session..both seemed ok!

Some observations from training today:

* Seemed to be a big emphasis on forward half pressure with mids kicking long, Owens in particular creating an aerial contest, then the smalls applying the heat.
Still a big deal of time spent on set shot goal kicking.

• Max King out of his sling & Jack Hayes out of his moonboot.
• Stocker has improved his running noticeably, winning both 400 metre runs in his group.
• Owens will be a very difficult match up with his enormous strength and second efforts.

His attack on the ball in a marking contest is fabulous!
* Young Canitini didn’t do a lot but he did take a strong 1 grab mark in amongst a big pack of players.
The kid cracked in as you’d expect given his limited time window to impress.

• Wilkie impressed as always, Paton seems to kick better on his left..Nas bullet passes a delight!
• Billings moving well and did a beautifully weighted pass accross his body that was perfect.
• Foot skills still not great but have been worse!!