Training 2024 Preseason reports and discussion

[Simon Crawshay]

The problem DGB now faces is that due to his slow start to his career there are now quite a few even younger players like Weddle ahead of him in the pecking order.

Butler has the same problem, he had a poor second year and the club went and recruited Ginnivan, Watson, etc and now he has an uphill battle to get a spot back as well.

Shows that for all the talk of player development the AFL isn't that different from the NBA, you need to start to perform pretty quickly otherwise you get left behind.

It's what players like Newk and Weddle did so well, they hit the ground running from the start and just keep getting better and better.

I reckon DGB has two more years left to make it personally.

 

[SSSSSS]

Taking out where he was picked in the draft - I have posted on a few occasions now that it was about this time in their careers that players like Lake, Rance et al started to come good after not so amazing starts to their careers. Tom Stewart wasn't even on an AFL list at this point. I don't think a bit more patience for DGB is out of line.

Rance was tradebait for Richmond at one point.

I remember seeing Tiggers supporters spewing absolute vitriol at him for a long time. Ditto Carlton supporters with Weittering lamenting about another pick 1 bust.

Fatty McGovern didn't even play a single game until he was in his 3rd year. Two years later and he's an All Australian.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Lots of excuses being provided for DGB and lots of 'needs a few more pre-seasons'. The main question from me to those on here who are more experienced re talent spotting / maturation of players...Would DGB still be in the system if he had been picked up at Pick 70 vs Pick 6 or whatever it was? Feels like we keep giving more time in hope / desperation that the pick basically wasn't burnt.

Another 'Thanks Clarko for winning a useless ROund 23 game against Suns which cost us Logan McDnonald'

Tell that to Dylan Moore who would have been delisted had it not been for that game.

No disrespect to our womens team but they would have beaten the Suns that day. We were running rings around them.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

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Merry Christmas

Weitering's size is what he should be aiming for. They have a similar body type. Isn't overly heavy but is strong as a bull which is why he is elite.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Thanks Tops, great insight. I can't understand it as Blanck seems to have all the tools to be a capable KPD.

The cupboard looks bare for OOC/FA options next year too.

agree re: his physical capabilities so based on that you have to assume they are uncertain about his defensive IQ. luckily this is something you can develop just like any other skill so hopefully the 1-year deal turns into a multi-year deal after an awesome 2024.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Tell that to Dylan Moore who would have been delisted had it not been for that game.

No disrespect to our womens team but they would have beaten the Suns that day. We were running rings around them.

yep and the 2020 draft was a crapshoot. plenty of clubs had DGB as number one on their boards (after JUH).

the flipside of all the uncertainty of that draft is we picked arguably the best talent from that class with a mid-season draft pick... let's say we took Jai Newcombe with pick 6 and the young developing tall DGB in the MSD. there's no way ppl would be so harsh on Denver. so i think we came out of it all okay from that perspective. hard to criticize given the covid restrictions fkd everything up

 

[moginie]

No disrespect to our womens team but they would have beaten the Suns that day. We were running rings around them.

And one of the other major factors in that win is that the Suns caught the red-eye into Adelaide at 5.30 that day. They were sluggish and we took advantage. What else do you expect in that situation?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Weitering's size is what he should be aiming for. They have a similar body type. Isn't overly heavy but is strong as a bull which is why he is elite.

Weitering has a very different body shape to DGB to my eye.

They are the same height but Weitering is much broader across the shoulders and through the arms.

Weitering is listed at 101kg and thats an ideal weight for a KPD (pretty sure Lake used to play around that mark). He is a legit big unit and as you say he is elite (he killed us when we played the Blues at the MCG this year)

Looking at DGB's body shape I think he will top out at 90 to 94kg. Which would mean he would have to make his mark as a Sam Frost type defender who plays on the second tall / medium forward.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Tell that to Dylan Moore who would have been delisted had it not been for that game.

No disrespect to our womens team but they would have beaten the Suns that day. We were running rings around them.

agree re: his physical capabilities so based on that you have to assume they are uncertain about his defensive IQ. luckily this is something you can develop just like any other skill so hopefully the 1-year deal turns into a multi-year deal after an awesome 2024.

I mean there is still a reason he got picked where he did. Plenty of exposed talent and has really good speed. His problems at the moment are endurance and his confidence is probably low. Endurance doesn't really come into it in under 18s where you have restrictions of positions on field. DGB played and took Logan McDonald to the cleaners in the under 18s comp. Yes time waits for no one and DGB's time is running out at Hawthorn. He needs to show something this year. I am sure he knows exactly where he is at

 

[SSSSSS]

Weitering has a very different body shape to DGB to my eye.

They are the same height but Weitering is much broader across the shoulders and through the arms.

Weitering is listed at 101kg and thats an ideal weight for a KPD (pretty sure Lake used to play around that mark). He is a legit big unit and as you say he is elite (he killed us when we played the Blues at the MCG this year)

Looking at DGB's body shape I think he will top out at 90 to 94kg. Which would mean he would have to make his mark as a Sam Frost type defender who plays on the second tall / medium forward.


View attachment 1866264

I think DGB could progress to be a Jake Lever type. Long in the arms, good reader of the ball and athletic. Think he'd be pushing low to mid 90s.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I mean there is still a reason he got picked where he did. Plenty of exposed talent and has really good speed. His problems at the moment are endurance and his confidence is probably low. Endurance doesn't really come into it in under 18s where you have restrictions of positions on field. DGB played and took Logan McDonald to the cleaners in the under 18s comp. Yes time waits for no one and DGB's time is running out at Hawthorn. He needs to show something this year. I am sure he knows exactly where he is at

im talking about Blanck in my post haha, agree on DGB

 

[WWSD]

Training today at Bungil Bagora, a beautiful day, a real pity I had to go back to work. However, I took the opportunity to hang around a while longer today.

No Shows
Once again no one

Rehab

Wingard: Out in the middle initially and then walking laps with the trainer and then on the bike. Progressing really well on his rehab

Reeves: Still in rehab running and stretching on the far side followed by some laps. Then walked upstairs early.

Seamus: In rehab unsure what his problem is if anything. Was a short run on the far side before he went downstairs to the pool early.

Lewis: Still in rehab with the others running 200m and then laps.

Amon: Doing everything with Lewis.

Gunston: See Amon. Winked at me as he was running by. I felt like I was a groupie lol

Massimo: In rehab running on the far side and then running laps.

Chol: Doing everything with Massimo.

CJ: Once again, he was part more drills but gets pulled out. Then in rehab and doing laps around the ground at a fair clip.

The started with some running and flexing all part of the warmup. They do it every session. They follow that with full ground handball and kicking drills running around in 3 groups.

This was followed with 3 seperate groups:

One working at some stoppage and boundary throw ins kicking it to contests on the half forward flanks usually where we had Meek V Tucker. Tucker has really worked hard at his running and contest work over the break. He was very competitive against Meek. Stephens once again hard at work in these drills along with Newk, Day and Ward. Stephen's copped a knock where he was bleeding and needed to be patched up with a bandage around the head McEvoy style. Put on a great tackle on Day to stop him dead in his tracks. One of the plays of the day was a clean takeaway from stoppage from newk to day to Ward who was screaming for it on the outside who then hit Ramma on the getting out the back. Mitch applauded it. It was bloody slick for Early December and Wardy looks primed.

Turning my attention to second group which included the forwards like Ginnivan and Croc and some of our defenders. The would kick it out to the middle of the ground and then Watson, Ginnivan or Breust would have the task of kicking it inside 50 to our other forwards. The stand out play for me was a kick forward long inside 50 where pack of about 3 or 4 and Mcabe comes screaming in running with the flight of the ball and nearly takes mark of the pre season. Exciting stuff he was booking he got there when I initially i thought he was no chance to effect the contest. The fact that he nearly took the mark brought me out of my seat and clapping and oos from the small set of ppl around the ground watching it.

The 3rd group were on the other side of the ground similar stoppage play by some of our younger mids, but kicking it inside 50 to a player either on the lead or runnning back to goal.

Once these drills had gone through all three groups they were called to the forward line and had everyone kicking for goal. Most of them handpassing to other to get it back and snap etc. Daysy wasn't happy having missed a snap.

They then got into some 15 on 15 intras. Yes intras in early December. The younger boys did some laps at this point and didn't take part. Day and Impey also looking on with sullivan getting a bit of a rub down.

We looked slick. Right from the first play. Almost play of the day We had the ball kicked to the wing to Weddle and he went for a bit of a gallop around a couple he had run 50 - 60m with a couple of bounces to the middle of the ground alas he didn't see Bailey Mac running in from half back on the chase. He tried to get around him but Bailey brought him down. Grabbed the ball and took off no one was catching him. He was just let down by the kick to butler in the forward line gave the defender a chance but Butler made it look good but picking it up cleanly, dodging around the defender and snapping truly.

The second qtr if you like of our intra. The play of the day Worpel without a doubt. It was set play with the blood rule from the back pocket and Sic kicked and stuffed the kick to which he wasn't happy. He completely missed the target and the ball landed in between the two players. Worps was on the boundary and ran towards it at pace picked it up cleanly as it was running away from him then turned on a dime put on the jets brushing of a player and then taking a bounce and delivering it forward.

Butsy was involved in a play that he wouldn't want to look back on. He got the ball in space inside 50 just took too long lackadaisical. He tried to run around too far and had his kick smothers for the ball to go the length of the ground for a score. Newk wasn't impressed after the play as they were making their way back to the center. He yelled out what was that butsy. Cmon man. We are driving standards to train with intensity. If you are getting smothered in that instance in pre season you're not focused and playing with the required intensity.

Interestingly we had DGB playing in defence. You have to like what Bennets brings he is just very consistent with his efforts. Ginnivan had a great running play though the middle of the ground. Other plays with our handball chains were super exciting. The familiar sight of Newk streaming out the middle of the ground to kick it long into the forward line. Our ball movement and connection sooooo much better. I repeat so slick for December. Wardy looking primed as I said and I have already mentioned Newk. However special mention goes to Sugar who has been outstanding this pre season.

I was extremely sad as I had to leave to get back to work. They were still going when I left. Till next time

As I was leaving I went up to Chad who was on the bike and told him I was so glad he stayed. we need him to guide our youngsters. He smiled and said thanks man. Love the Chad.

Has Serong stood out on the training track and do you see him some playing games next year?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Can we not be writing off players in December, please?

 

[hawkinoz]

So Smilie is an Utility, may be available around pick 10 then

 

[wizzard400]

Taking out where he was picked in the draft - I have posted on a few occasions now that it was about this time in their careers that players like Lake, Rance et al started to come good after not so amazing starts to their careers. Tom Stewart wasn't even on an AFL list at this point. I don't think a bit more patience for DGB is out of line.

Just to piggyback off this - Weitering, who everyone seems to be comparing DGB to, didn’t really come into his own until his 5th year in the system.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

I think DGB could progress to be a Jake Lever type. Long in the arms, good reader of the ball and athletic. Think he'd be pushing low to mid 90s.

View attachment 1866274

Yes that's his position.

It's his lack of aerobic capacity rather than size that limits him from doing this role effectively at the moment.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Has Serong stood out on the training track and do you see him some playing games next year?

Preseason has just started doing a lot of things right has a really good fitness base. He will give himself every chance to have a good year. It's just about his competitiveness at AFL level.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Weitering has a very different body shape to DGB to my eye.

They are the same height but Weitering is much broader across the shoulders and through the arms.

DGB has 'closed' shoulders that prevent him from looking full chested and broader across the shoulders.

I think there's a medical condition that can cause this, but as soon as he started to stack on weight it seems that it looked more obvious.

Likely a genetic trait, but it seems like a lot of guys who have that look about them struggle to put a lot of muscle.

Usually prevents you getting good arm extension too, I don't think I've ever noticed that with him. But his hands didn't look as sticky as they did when he first came to the club.

Has all the traits of an elite beckman based on his draft year, and his first year in the seniors. He also had what looked like a breakout game of sorts against Carlton in his second year.

There's something there, Denver and the club just need to work out how to unlock it imo.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Just to piggyback off this - Weitering, who everyone seems to be comparing DGB to, didn’t really come into his own until his 5th year in the system.

The DGB comparisons with Rance and Weitering in their early years aren't really accurate to my mind.

If we take each of these players third year as an example.

DGB - 5.5 possessions, 2.7 marks, 0.4 tackles
Weitering - 13.5 disposals, 5.9 marks, 1.6 tackles
Rance - 18.1 disposals, 6.0 marks, 2.6 tackles

DGB is way, way off the pace at where they both were at the same stage of their careers.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

DGB has 'closed' shoulders that prevent him from looking full chested and broader across the shoulders.

I think there's a medical condition that can cause this, but as soon as he started to stack on weight it seems that it looked more obvious.

Likely a genetic trait, but it seems like a lot of guys who have that look about them struggle to put a lot of muscle.

Usually prevents you getting good arm extension too, I don't think I've ever noticed that with him. But his hands didn't look as sticky as they did when he first came to the club.

Has all the traits of an elite beckman based on his draft year, and his first year in the seniors. He also had what looked like a breakout game of sorts against Carlton in his second year.

There's something there, Denver and the club just need to work out how to unlock it imo.

Blakey for the Swans has a similar condition/build (narrow shoulders / long skinny arms).

But Blakey is an absolute power runner, which is what you expect someone with a build like a Greyhound would be TBH.

 

[butlers hawks]

He is a very important player. I too am scratching my head. Let’s put it that way.
We are desperate for defensive balance and use Sic as the third intercepting tall.

I know I keep saying it, but the missing of McKay was a big disappointment. I appreciate he is no superstar, but the lack of tall defensive structure is clearly our biggest issue. And, it is something that is not going to be resolved over night.

That is why the development of Serong is so important and the quicker we can get McCabe up to speed so critical. Reality is Sic is best when we force the oppo to kick it long, but when they are more surgical it causes great concern. The issue is well known.

I truly hope Blanke will be the defensive anchor we desperately need and we can build around, because finding two defensive KP’s is more difficult than finding one.

My concern with Frost is well known.

Defence wins games, big games. This year Seamus Mitchell is so important. The recruiting of Ryan was also very telling. If Dimma is to play forward these two remain critical.

Hey Tops would it be because he is still on the Rookie List so they have extended him on a rookie contract then will extend on a senior list spot when they have to upgrade him?

 

[kazzooka]

One thing that must not be forgotten about the 2020 draft is that in hindsight we selected probably the 5th best player with pick 5 but we weren't able to keep him and our pick automatically becomes 6.

 

[tl92]

On a side note, I often read in this board that DGB is ‘athletic’. Outside of being moderately fast, in what sense is he athletic? Doesn’t seem overly strong, has poor endurance etc. I know the term athletic is a tough one to define but just don’t see what it could be referring to with him.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Just on DGB, he's been drafted into a club that's rebuilding and when he was playing defence we really lacked midfield pressure so the defence in general were bombarded. Whilst I think he's gonna need a bit more time to fill out his frame, he's had a pretty tough introduction to AFL footy and with better structure and up the ground pressure, it really helps avoid him being hung out to dry.

Think we'll start to see him find his feet next year and back himself in more.

 

[toomanysquibs]

On a side note, I often read in this board that DGB is ‘athletic’. Outside of being moderately fast, in what sense is he athletic? Doesn’t seem overly strong, has poor endurance etc. I know the term athletic is a tough one to define but just don’t see what it could be referring to with him.

Is quick and can jump really well. Also reads the ball in flight a lot better than most.

DOesn't look that way maybe because the longer the games he's played have gone on, the more gassed he gets. Repeat efforts aren't there.

His standout athleticism was a feature of his draft year, and most pundits (including scouts) mentioned it.