Preview 2025 Best 22 Discussion

[Docker82]

Incredibly strongly disagree.

Every year I see this and every year our top picks play at least one or two games.

Good kids force their way into even good teams. Not many players on a clubs list don’t play games and not many players make it if they’re not playing semi-regular games by their third or fourth year - most guns play earlier.

 

[Dockeroo]

Every year I see this and every year our top picks play at least one or two games.

Good kids force their way into even good teams. Not many players on a clubs list don’t play games and not many players make it if they’re not playing semi-regular games by their third or fourth year - most guns play earlier.

Agree with this. Its why Erasmus is behind the curve - 4 years in now in 2025, and as a top 10 pick that was a non KPP player, you should be a walk up start in every side in the league if development is going to plan.

Serong/young/Cerra after 3 years are the comparisons.
If you want a good side example - think Jaspa Fletcher at Brisbane in year 2 last year. Played nearly every game and had good moments. Premiership player already from pick 12 in 2022. Brisbane were the best side in the league but they didn’t mean he couldn’t find a spot in year 2. Just Too good to leave out.

Hopefully Murphy Reid is like that in 2025.

 

[stax on the mull]

I havent been down yet this preseason. Ill get down next week. Ive been quoting some of the training reports but I havent done one yet.

()

What about this one before Christmas. You're not holding out on us are you buddy or going to pretend this isn't you?

I get that nobody here is contractually obligated, but it does seem something akin to a broken protocol once you've asked other training watchers to give up information (and they reply - see posts 30 and 31 on Page 2 in the Training Reports thread), and then you choose to post snippets on other social media sites about our lads out on the track, but don't bring it home to your bigfooty brethren and sistren.

 

[Minz]

Man I loved Brodie’s game in 2022. Great ball extraction and elite seeing-eye handballs. But I can also see why he hasn’t really got a game since. Is there not a space for a big-bodied hand baller who can’t run two ways once Fyfe retires?

 

[theGav56]

Ollie Murphy had a decent finish to the year last year. Was always tracking to be long term prospect but is tracking along a pretty clear improvement arc and has a pretty high ceiling. I've actually got higher expectations for him than I do Hugh Davies

Both Chapman and Draper have some pace so there could be more a strategy on the faster gorilla types.

 

[theGav56]

Agree with this. Its why Erasmus is behind the curve - 4 years in now in 2025, and as a top 10 pick that was a non KPP player, you should be a walk up start in every side in the league if development is going to plan.

Serong/young/Cerra after 3 years are the comparisons.
If you want a good side example - think Jaspa Fletcher at Brisbane in year 2 last year. Played nearly every game and had good moments. Premiership player already from pick 12 in 2022. Brisbane were the best side in the league but they didn’t mean he couldn’t find a spot in year 2. Just Too good to leave out.

Hopefully Murphy Reid is like that in 2025.

Are Serong/Young/Cerra a fair comparison? Them getting as many games as they did was as much a reflection of the club being in the grip of a hard rebuild and looking to fast track every plausible youngun that they could.

Much more difficult to displace an established early career midfield gun. Will Brodie went from playing every game to the waste paper bin once Young moved to the midfield.

For now he does look like a questionable selection in the top 10, but if he is seen as a Fyfe replacement then the timing is on track.

 

[Dockeroo]

Are Serong/Young/Cerra a fair comparison? Them getting as many games as they did was as much a reflection of the club being in the grip of a hard rebuild and looking to fast track every plausible youngun that they could.

Much more difficult to displace an established early career midfield gun. Will Brodie went from playing every game to the waste paper bin once Young moved to the midfield.

Not so sure I agree with this. We aren’t that good that we can’t find a place for elite young talent.
Let’s put it this way - if Caleb Serong had been drafted to this football club in 2021 instead of 2019, at the same time as Neil Erasmus, would he be in the B22 by now?
Of course he would. Thats because he’s a much better player than Erasmus and had been from the first minute he played for Fremantle in round 5, 2020. Hayden Young too. I get the argument that those guys had more opportunity when they arrived but still, the main reason is they are just better players. In fact they are miles better, not comparable at all to Erasmus actually.


There is no team in the AFL that doesn’t have a place for an elite talent in their first season or two, if they are good enough.
My example of Jaspa Fletcher, pick 12 in 2022, a year after Erasmus was pick 10 in 2021 remains the perfect case study of this.
Going by your logic, Jaspa Fletcher would not make our B22 either. But he’s a premiership player with the best side in the league yet we didn’t make finals at all last year. Of course he would be a walk up start for freo in our B22.

If Murphy Reid is good enough he will quickly go past the likes of Erasmus and even Johnson and NOD in his first season and force himself into the B22 every week because he’s just too good to leave out. It’s entirely possible that this happens and it would be a sign we are improving as a team.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Not so sure I agree with this. We aren’t that good that we can’t find a place for elite young talent.
Let’s put it this way - if Caleb Serong had been drafted to this football club in 2021 instead of 2019, at the same time as Neil Erasmus, would he be in the B22 by now?
Of course he would. Thats because he’s a much better player than Erasmus and had been from the first minute he played for Fremantle in round 5, 2020. Hayden Young too. I get the argument that those guys had more opportunity when they arrived but still, the main reason is they are just better players. In fact they are miles better, not comparable at all to Erasmus actually.


There is no team in the AFL that doesn’t have a place for an elite talent in their first season or two, if they are good enough.
My example of Jaspa Fletcher, pick 12 in 2022, a year after Erasmus was pick 10 in 2021 remains the perfect case study of this.
Going by your logic, Jaspa Fletcher would not make our B22 either. But he’s a premiership player with the best side in the league yet we didn’t make finals at all last year. Of course he would be a walk up start for freo in our B22.

If Murphy Reid is good enough he will quickly go past the likes of Erasmus and even Johnson and NOD in his first season and force himself into the B22 every week because he’s just too good to leave out. It’s entirely possible that this happens and it would be a sign we are improving as a team.

Young is a lot more flexible. Can go back, forward, wing etc.

So is Fletcher, and even Serong.

Erasmus is really inside mid, or nothing. Are you really only have one of these in your 22.

Having said that, if Erasmus is good enough he should be able to take Fyfe's spot as the inside mid this year.

 

[Dockeroo]

Young is a lot more flexible. Can go back, forward, wing etc.

So is Fletcher, and even Serong.

Erasmus is really inside mid, or nothing. Are you really only have one of these in your 22.

Having said that, if Erasmus is good enough he should be able to take Fyfe's spot as the inside mid this year.

Yeah that’s true and I was going to make that point.
That comes into play when you evaluate Erasmus overall as a footballer though. If your only avenue to a game at AFL level is as a premium inside midfielder that’s a very tough road. It makes him quite a limited player if he cannot play anywhere else.

Good players adapt. You throw them around the park and they find a way to make an impact.
Erasmus should have been eyeing up Bailey Banfield playing as a high half forward over the last year or two and saying “that’s my pathway into this teams 22”. But clearly the coaches didn’t think he was good enough to play that role. Fyfe being unavailable will help him get close to a game but it’s not guaranteed. I could easily see Johnson getting picked ahead of Erasmus at inside mid and them then slotting chapman on a wing and draper in the defence instead of playing Ras.

David king made the point on SEN one day last year I remember - if you don’t have a second position nowadays as a midfielder then you are almost obsolete in the modern game.

 

[theGav56]

Not so sure I agree with this. We aren’t that good that we can’t find a place for elite young talent.
Let’s put it this way - if Caleb Serong had been drafted to this football club in 2021 instead of 2019, at the same time as Neil Erasmus, would he be in the B22 by now?
Of course he would. Thats because he’s a much better player than Erasmus and had been from the first minute he played for Fremantle in round 5, 2020. Hayden Young too. I get the argument that those guys had more opportunity when they arrived but still, the main reason is they are just better players. In fact they are miles better, not comparable at all to Erasmus actually.


There is no team in the AFL that doesn’t have a place for an elite talent in their first season or two, if they are good enough.
My example of Jaspa Fletcher, pick 12 in 2022, a year after Erasmus was pick 10 in 2021 remains the perfect case study of this.
Going by your logic, Jaspa Fletcher would not make our B22 either. But he’s a premiership player with the best side in the league yet we didn’t make finals at all last year. Of course he would be a walk up start for freo in our B22.

If Murphy Reid is good enough he will quickly go past the likes of Erasmus and even Johnson and NOD in his first season and force himself into the B22 every week because he’s just too good to leave out. It’s entirely possible that this happens and it would be a sign we are improving as a team.

Well, I'm not saying Erasmus is elite. I'm quibbling with you setting those 3 players as the comparison. Why not set Mundy or Barlow as the comparisons?

Like I said, Erasmus is a questionable top 10 selection, but that is not uncommon. We have Aish and Brodie on the list as evidence that top 10 does not equal elite.

Cerra was absolutely gifted games before he'd earned them, and doubtless it gave him the best opportunity to develop. But if he joined at the same time as Erasmus, imo he would have played fewer early games.

I'm not really sure what your point about Jasper Fletcher is, or how you think it impacts my logic. I'm certainly not arguing against picking best available.

Erasmus hasn't been good enough to displace Fyfe until now, and doesn't project as having another position he is the best option for. He has found himself in an either/or selection dilemma. Erasmus or Fyfe. Do you disagree? Or do you want them both in?

Serong, Brayshaw, Cerra and Young are much more versatile and have done well in other roles, especially the last 3. Erasmus would have to step into the role of inside bull.

 

[Vintage]

It could be that midfield talent was a bit think in that draft. After Ras, other than NWM who went immediately after, the next few haven’t set the world on fire - Josh Sinn, Ben Hobbs, Chesser,

 

[DQ 4EVER]

It could be that midfield talent was a bit think in that draft. After Ras, other than NWM who went immediately after, the next few haven’t set the world on fire - Josh Sinn, Ben Hobbs, Chesser,

I reckon Hobbs will be good.

 

[Hamann188]

Every year I see this and every year our top picks play at least one or two games.

Good kids force their way into even good teams. Not many players on a clubs list don’t play games and not many players make it if they’re not playing semi-regular games by their third or fourth year - most guns play earlier.

I can't remember how many, if any, WAFL games Andy and Caleb played.

Feels like they almost walked straight onto the big stage.

Worked out pretty good for the both of them, apart from Andy who got a major facial reconstruction and promptly ended a blokes career.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

I can't remember how many, if any, WAFL games Andy and Caleb played.

Feels like they almost walked straight onto the big stage.

Worked out pretty good for the both of them, apart from Andy who got a major facial reconstruction and promptly ended a blokes career.

Caleb certainly deserved his spot which was evidenced by his RS.
Andrew didn't even get a nomination, so one could argue he was gifted games.

 

[Dockeroo]

Well, I'm not saying Erasmus is elite. I'm quibbling with you setting those 3 players as the comparison. Why not set Mundy or Barlow as the comparisons?

Like I said, Erasmus is a questionable top 10 selection, but that is not uncommon. We have Aish and Brodie on the list as evidence that top 10 does not equal elite.

Cerra was absolutely gifted games before he'd earned them, and doubtless it gave him the best opportunity to develop. But if he joined at the same time as Erasmus, imo he would have played fewer early games.

I'm not really sure what your point about Jasper Fletcher is, or how you think it impacts my logic. I'm certainly not arguing against picking best available.

Erasmus hasn't been good enough to displace Fyfe until now, and doesn't project as having another position he is the best option for. He has found himself in an either/or selection dilemma. Erasmus or Fyfe. Do you disagree? Or do you want them both in?

Serong, Brayshaw, Cerra and Young are much more versatile and have done well in other roles, especially the last 3. Erasmus would have to step into the role of inside bull.

I agree that Erasmus has found himself in a him v Fyfe selection dilemma and it’s not a great place for him to be in.
My other comment above details why I reckon Erasmus might be in a bit of trouble long term at freo.

• he can only play one position.
• he is not a premium player in that position and generally if you want to be a nailed on starter at inside mid on an AFL team you can’t be the 20th to 22nd best player on the team.

Wasn’t he drafted as a forward mid from memory? Surely he could find the flexibility for a role on the HFF?
To answer your question right now if fully fit I still have Fyfe ahead of him.

I can't remember how many, if any, WAFL games Andy and Caleb played.

Feels like they almost walked straight onto the big stage.

Worked out pretty good for the both of them, apart from Andy who got a major facial reconstruction and promptly ended a blokes career.

May be incorrect here but I believe Andy Brayshaw has never played a minute of WAFL football in his life. Actually I’m not sure Caleb has either. Wasn’t those first few rounds in 2020 before he broke into the team in a hub at GC?

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Yeah that’s true and I was going to make that point.
That comes into play when you evaluate Erasmus overall as a footballer though. If your only avenue to a game at AFL level is as a premium inside midfielder that’s a very tough road. It makes him quite a limited player if he cannot play anywhere else.

Good players adapt. You throw them around the park and they find a way to make an impact.
Erasmus should have been eyeing up Bailey Banfield playing as a high half forward over the last year or two and saying “that’s my pathway into this teams 22”. But clearly the coaches didn’t think he was good enough to play that role. Fyfe being unavailable will help him get close to a game but it’s not guaranteed. I could easily see Johnson getting picked ahead of Erasmus at inside mid and them then slotting chapman on a wing and draper in the defence instead of playing Ras.

David king made the point on SEN one day last year I remember - if you don’t have a second position nowadays as a midfielder then you are almost obsolete in the modern game.

But there's the catch-22 of being a good midfield prospect in a team with much better midfield prospects in front of you. He has been playing and training as a midfielder his whole time at Freo/Peel. This is touched on in a recent article (https://archive.md/uCgHR):

"While he also believes he can push for selection in the forward line, Erasmus wasn’t playing near the goals for Peel which meant coaches had no reason to pick him in any other position for the Dockers."

Banfield started a lot further back than Raz did in their draft years in terms of fwd craft. He played as a midfielder who often tagged in his first season, and in his 2nd season barely played at AFL level (a bit more fwd that year granted), but at WAFL level again inside mid. He got better as a fwd by training and playing there. Being less talented ironically worked in his favour because we could give up on him as a midfielder, allowing him to compete for other spots.

 

[theGav56]

But there's the catch-22 of being a good midfield prospect in a team with much better midfield prospects in front of you. He has been playing and training as a midfielder his whole time at Freo/Peel. This is touched on in a recent article (https://archive.md/uCgHR):

"While he also believes he can push for selection in the forward line, Erasmus wasn’t playing near the goals for Peel which meant coaches had no reason to pick him in any other position for the Dockers."

Banfield started a lot further back than Raz did in their draft years in terms of fwd craft. He played as a midfielder who often tagged in his first season, and in his 2nd season barely played at AFL level (a bit more fwd that year granted), but at WAFL level again inside mid. He got better as a fwd by training and playing there. Being less talented ironically worked in his favour because we could give up on him as a midfielder, allowing him to compete for other spots.

To me it seems like we have pencilled Erasmus in as Fyfe's replacement. There is some kind of path mapped out for him that includes physical development as well as learning the craft.

That could come sooner or later with Fyfe likely in his final year, but it was never going to happen in a meaningful way before now. We have entered the transition zone.

With Fyfe potentially having a delayed start to the season, Erasmus has a chance to make it difficult to leave him out. I just hope we don't default to O'Meara.

 

[theGav56]

But there's the catch-22 of being a good midfield prospect in a team with much better midfield prospects in front of you. He has been playing and training as a midfielder his whole time at Freo/Peel. This is touched on in a recent article (https://archive.md/uCgHR):

"While he also believes he can push for selection in the forward line, Erasmus wasn’t playing near the goals for Peel which meant coaches had no reason to pick him in any other position for the Dockers."

Banfield started a lot further back than Raz did in their draft years in terms of fwd craft. He played as a midfielder who often tagged in his first season, and in his 2nd season barely played at AFL level (a bit more fwd that year granted), but at WAFL level again inside mid. He got better as a fwd by training and playing there. Being less talented ironically worked in his favour because we could give up on him as a midfielder, allowing him to compete for other spots.

Cerra, Serong and Brayshaw had to get in front of the likes of Crowden, Conca, Bewley, Tucker and Banfield. Erasmus needs to displace Fyfe or O'Meara (he seems to have leapfrogged Brodie).