Training 2025 Off-Season & Preseason reports and discussion

[kazzooka]

Really sick and tired of this bullshit misunderstanding of Northern Academies. They are NOT designed to lure non AFL players to AFL. They are the elite pathways for junior footy in NSW and QLD. Blame the AFL, they don't fund any pathways in NSW or QLD. They outsource this to the Northern teams and pay them back by giving access. Cooper would not have a chance of playing father son for Hawthorn if he was not in the Brisbane academy as this is the only elite coaching and development option in QLD.

If the AFL was serious, they should fund these academies and introduce them into the Coates U18 talent league. That way they kids up north get equal quality coaching and elite pathways to that in Victoria. That is not possible at the moment without the academies.

I have a son in an academy so am pretty well versed on how these work.

The thing is, some of these players from Brisbane academy and up going to private schools in Melbourne and playing for Sandringham Dragons. It's a rort that Brisbane get access to those players.

While I acknowledge that NSW and QLD don't have the same pathways available as kids in VIC, SA and WA doesn't mean that those clubs should have exclusive rights to run those academies. Why can't West Coast and Hawthorn run academies in QLD and NSW and give elite development in exchange for priority access too?

You cannot have 4 clubs allowed access to this but not all. That is what makes it unfair.

If you excluded those 4 clubs from also accessing the draft maybe it could be fairer.

Also if Cooper wanted to be an AFL player, he had more opportunity than most even without the Brisbane academy. Cyril Rioli moved from NT to Melbourne to go to Scotch College so he could be an AFL player. Cooper Hodge could have done the same. Joe bloggs from Currumbin maybe can't, but Cooper Hodge can.

 

[kazzooka]

Cooper wouldn't be a chance of playing father son for Hawthorn if he wasn't in the Brisbane academy? Come on. The academies have been around since 2010. Last year there were 5 players selected from the Northern Academies in the draft, in 2009 there were 5 players selected from the QAFL, NEAFL and other interstate leagues.

To imply Cooper would be lost to football without the academy system is nonsense.

Jason dunstall did okay without an Academy.

 

[kazzooka]

But don't the AFL already 'fund' GWS, Gold Coast, Lions, etc? I am prob OK with GC and GWS getting academy spoils as they have nil chance of father son for another 15+ years. It is a joke that lions and swans get the double dip of their own father sons as well as other father sons (eg blakey).

Don't think anyone is having a crack at clubs taking advantage..they are doing what we would do if we had the chance. It's AFL led method to keep giving the northern teams leg up for tv $$$

Lions and Swans are bloody foundation clubs from the competition since 1897 and have been in it longer than 10 other clubs, Richmond, WB, North, Hawthorn, Adelaide, Port, West Coast, Freo, GC and GWS.

 

[kazzooka]

Cooper wouldn't be a chance of playing father son for Hawthorn if he wasn't in the Brisbane academy? Come on. The academies have been around since 2010. Last year there were 5 players selected from the Northern Academies in the draft, in 2009 there were 5 players selected from the QAFL, NEAFL and other interstate leagues.

To imply Cooper would be lost to football without the academy system is nonsense.

A guy who went Number 1 in 2000 draft also didn't need an academy. If the state is producing number 1 picks in 2000 it isn't so devoid of pathways that we need to ruin the competition with them.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Lions and Swans are bloody foundation clubs from the competition since 1897 and have been in it longer than 10 other clubs, Richmond, WB, North, Hawthorn, Adelaide, Port, West Coast, Freo, GC and GWS.

Wow you're being deliberately obtuse here. You can't come close to stating that the Sydney Swans and Brisbane Lions have been in the competition longer those clubs and you know full well they don't exist in AFL-dominated environments like the Perth and Adelaide teams do. The Swans have only been in their present home market for 40 odd years and it is a crap sporting market at the best of times and for a large chunk of their history they were a basket case on the field. They are in a good position now - but let's not pretend that the Swans in their current incarnation have existed for 130-odd years. Same with Brisbane - yes they took Fitzroy's identity somewhat but the AFL has only been in Brisbane for close to 40 years also. Brisbane is ferociously more partial to rugby league and it has been a harder market to crack but the Lions have done a good job. Just because Fitzroy existed in 1897 doesn't mean that the Brisbane Lions did.

I don't fully agree with everything Coburghawk said but he raised some interesting points and didn't deserve the pile on and patronising reacts to his post. The northern academies absolutely should exist because, as Coburg rightly points out, kids playing Aussie Rules up in those states/cities should have access to elite coaching and pathways to get more kids into the game up there. They are up against dominant codes and need every bit of help they can get. He is also right that the AFL should be the ones running the academies rather than the clubs. The AFL should be employing coaching and development specialists who identify talent, get them into the academies. The kids then go into the normal draft system like any other 18 year old in any given year. The system as it stands is faulty with the clubs being given the onus and the cherry picking of talent which many other clubs don't have - and father/son isn't comparable because the pool of talent in the academies is absolutely more vast than the f/s crop for any club in any given year.

The intent of the academies is right - but the application is not. Much like 90% of what the AFL does.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

A guy who went Number 1 in 2000 draft also didn't need an academy. If the state is producing number 1 picks in 2000 it isn't so devoid of pathways that we need to ruin the competition with them.

That guy also only moved to the Gold Coast when he was 9 and his father played in the Tasmanian state league - so it's not as if he stumbled onto the game. He also came through the Southport Sharks which is about the best way to have come through the Qld system at the time.

Again - there is nothing wrong with getting more kids into elite talent pathways. We already do it with remote kids who get shipped down to private schools in Melbourne and get to play in the Coates League. Kids in the northern states deserve similar pathways - and it is good for the competition and sport if they do. The league absolutely needs the academies - they just need to not be run to by and for the benefit of 4 clubs only.

 

[Yardie]

The point is it would be diminished as he would not have the same level of coaching and development as the kids in VIC get in the teenage years.

I'm glad your son is getting an opportunity. But don't for one minute think that if Cooper wanted to play at the top level and the academy wasn't available the family would have him on scholarship at a school in Melbourne.

 

[OnTheRocks]

Bigboy says hi

View attachment 2210492

Who the heck would wanna be a ruck?
Toughest spot on the field, hands down (or up)

 

[kazzooka]

I'm glad your son is getting an opportunity. But don't for one minute think that if Cooper wanted to play at the top level and the academy wasn't available the family would have him on scholarship at a school in Melbourne.

He wouldn't be on scholarship, he could just be a full fee paying student at Hailebury and go to play at Sandringham Dragons like any other rich kid does.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I'm glad your son is getting an opportunity. But don't for one minute think that if Cooper wanted to play at the top level and the academy wasn't available the family would have him on scholarship at a school in Melbourne.

Which is fine for Cooper Hodge - and I don't think you'll have anyone on here arguing that this situation isn't absurd.

But if there's a Brisbane born and bred future Luke Hodge who doesn't want to uproot his family in the hope of a private school scholarship - then there should absolutely be better pathways available to him. As I have said above - it absolutely shouldn't be a talent hoarding facility for the northern clubs but the AFL should assume the academies and fully equip them so kids up there can get the same development as kids from WA/SA/Victoria/Tasmania. They should be doing the same in the NT also because kids should be able to stay with their families and communities up there rather than being shipped away to the private schools in Melbourne. The AFL could be doing so much better on this front, but of course aren't as per usual. The other 14 clubs should be petitioning the AFL hard to change the system so the academies are for the betterment of the code and competition - not just 4 clubs.

 

[Roddy]

Who the heck would wanna be a ruck?
Toughest spot on the field, hands down (or up)

I played ruck as a junior, and I agree with you 100%. Playing ruck was LITERALLY nearly the death of me - I copped a stray knee in a centre bounce that ruptured my spleen. The doc who operated on me told me later that if I'd been 20 mins later getting to hospital, I'd be dead.

I also copped a broken finger, ruptured ear drum, and broken leg, all in the ruck....

 

[jaygee]

Which is fine for Cooper Hodge - and I don't think you'll have anyone on here arguing that this situation isn't absurd.

But if there's a Brisbane born and bred future Luke Hodge who doesn't want to uproot his family in the hope of a private school scholarship - then there should absolutely be better pathways available to him. As I have said above - it absolutely shouldn't be a talent hoarding facility for the northern clubs but the AFL should assume the academies and fully equip them so kids up there can get the same development as kids from WA/SA/Victoria/Tasmania. They should be doing the same in the NT also because kids should be able to stay with their families and communities up there rather than being shipped away to the private schools in Melbourne. The AFL could be doing so much better on this front, but of course aren't as per usual. The other 14 clubs should be petitioning the AFL hard to change the system so the academies are for the betterment of the code and competition - not just 4 clubs.

If they want to improve and expand AFL in the Northern states and instead of the rort that it is. Let every AFL team set-up Academies where ever they want in the non footy states. Could you imagine 18 academies instead of just 4? AFL footy would expand and improve in those states way beter and fairer.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I played ruck as a junior, and I agree with you 100%. Playing ruck was LITERALLY nearly the death of me - I copped a stray knee in a centre bounce that ruptured my spleen. The doc who operated on me told me later that if I'd been 20 mins later getting to hospital, I'd be dead.

I also copped a broken finger, ruptured ear drum, and broken leg, all in the ruck....

My wife's uncle is very much the same. Played all his footy in the ruck - is only in his mid 60s and is absolutely wrecked physically and walks around like he's in his 80s.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

If they want to improve and expand AFL in the Northern states and instead of the rort that it is. Let every AFL team set-up Academies where ever they want in the non footy states. Could you imagine 18 academies instead of just 4? AFL footy would expand and improve in those states way beter and fairer.

Not really, no. It would be an arms race and only the wealthiest of clubs would be able to put the resources into it - and even then the cost would be exorbitant and clubs would have other priorities (i.e. Dingley). The AFL want to be the ruthless dictator of the game and have taken over footy at pretty much every level in the country - it is incumbent on them to put their money where their mouth is and develop talent in those states and then let them enter the draft where ANY club can get them so long as they have the picks.

 

[Glenferrie Arty Deco]

Any word on the position of Finn Maginness this off season? Really feel like he settled late last year, with his running capacity, marking and strength I reckon he could be valuable getting up and back on a wing opposite Massimo.

 

[jaygee]

Not really, no. It would be an arms race and only the wealthiest of clubs would be able to put the resources into it - and even then the cost would be exorbitant and clubs would have other priorities (i.e. Dingley). The AFL want to be the ruthless dictator of the game and have taken over footy at pretty much every level in the country - it is incumbent on them to put their money where their mouth is and develop talent in those states and then let them enter the draft where ANY club can get them so long as they have the picks.

But they never will. That is the problem.

 

[Turly]

As I said elsewhere, the thought of Ramma possibly becoming the 'new Hale' gives me a chubby....

I suggested this when we first drafted him. The only issue I have is his kicking. His action extremely poor.

Hale was a very reliable shot for goal which is a key difference. Ramma is more athletic though so I’ll give him that.

 

[QuietB]

I'm glad your son is getting an opportunity. But don't for one minute think that if Cooper wanted to play at the top level and the academy wasn't available the family would have him on scholarship at a school in Melbourne.

Luke Hodge is not and never was part of that system.

100% their should be academies and the local clubs should 100% have access to the local talent.

If Hawthorn want young Hodge then Hawthorn need to convince him to come. If Brisbane want him then they need to do the same. He is one of the lucky ones who has a choice at all.

 

[OnTheRocks]

I played ruck as a junior, and I agree with you 100%. Playing ruck was LITERALLY nearly the death of me - I copped a stray knee in a centre bounce that ruptured my spleen. The doc who operated on me told me later that if I'd been 20 mins later getting to hospital, I'd be dead.

I also copped a broken finger, ruptured ear drum, and broken leg, all in the ruck....

The toughest opponent to play against are rucks, especially if you're not a ruck. Bigger, stronger (mostly) but hopefully not faster.
Get the ruck before they get you is a likely defence against them or keep well the fk away from them

 

[Roddy]

The toughest opponent to play against are rucks, especially if you're not a ruck. Bigger, stronger (mostly) but hopefully not faster.
Get the ruck before they get you is a likely defence against them or keep well the fk away from them

There used to be an old adage in football, ‘a good big man will beat a good little man’, which you very rarely hear these days. Maybe because even many of the ‘little’ men are big today.

I’m 188cms and I played ruck in the 80s (although I had a big leap on me). Nowadays I’m an average midfielder.

I don’t think that saying referred to when the ball hit the ground either…

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Lions and Swans are bloody foundation clubs from the competition since 1897 and have been in it longer than 10 other clubs, Richmond, WB, North, Hawthorn, Adelaide, Port, West Coast, Freo, GC and GWS.

I may have misread, but I took their comment to be specifically in relation to Lions/Swans getting Academy access in lieu of comparable F/S potential.

I see there as being multiple issues, that are all contributing to the 'requirement' for Northern Academies.

1. GC/GWS (to a lesser extent still Freo/Port/Eagles/Crows) are still in an era where they do not have equal chance of F/S. The WA/SA sides are at the point now where they are almost 100% equivalent to the rest of the comp - anyone who has played for them from their commencement would now have adult children.

2. QLD/NSW is in competition with Rugby. 'Everyone loves a winner' and casual fans won't support a perennial loser. The AFL needs QC/BL/SS/GWS to all be 'successful' on field.

3. Families like to keep their kids "Home". Even in the modern world, a career undertaken close to family - within day-trip distance - is far preferred over one that results in only seeing family/grandchildren on holidays. Talented NSW/QLD kids can play an entire professional Rugby career from "home". They have contracts from 15 and 'certainty' over their future. Kids playing "AFL" will be 'randomly' selected Australia-wide at 18 - forced to move with literally a few days notice.

The Northern Academy tries to 'fix' all three.

1. The academies give GC/GWS free reign to QLD/NSW kids, but that then takes away from Lions/Swans (who themselves are still fighting for existence).
2. The AFL 'supports' the northern clubs through any measure possible - salary cap, draft concessions, coincidentally easy draw, MRP, umpiring, etc.
3. The best QLD/NSW kids can be almost guaranteed to stay in their home state.

I'd like to see a few changes.

1. State Academies to be funded/managed by the AFL. (The AFL fund northern clubs anyway, so this also stops the 'rubbery' figure support).
2. 'Northern Clubs' access is reduced to what is essentially the current "Cat B". Those from an AFL background (ie father-sons such as Hodge, Blakey, kids who grew up and first registered in Vic, or boarding at Vic private schools, etc) can still be part of the Academies - can still represent their "Home" state - but are not 'zoned' to GC/GWS for draft purposes.
3. Players from the "Northern Zone" can be listed by ALL clubs as "Cat B" (similar to current rules on International/non-AFL player backgrounds).

Those changes, along with the reduced effectiveness of draft pick matching will reduce/stop some of the imbalance.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Talking Hawks Take 5 piece

Take Five – Tim’s Match Sim Takeaways – Talking Hawks

bit.ly

Gotta hand it to you mate, you are a very dedicated person and an asset to the Hawthorn faithful.

 

[Baz_hawk]

Any word on the position of Finn Maginness this off season? Really feel like he settled late last year, with his running capacity, marking and strength I reckon he could be valuable getting up and back on a wing opposite Massimo.

Was he in an academy up north?? If not, then you've come to the wrong thread apparently...

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

If Cooper Hodge ends up at Brisbane through their academy, I suspect that will be the death knell for the northern academies in their current form. The jungle drums are already beating (rightly so) and this would provide pretext for 14 other teams to push very hard for the abolition of these ridiculous concessions.

It will be similar to when Tippett and Franklin signed at the $wans in successive years, which caused the AFL to readjust COLA and implement a water down allowance of 'rental assistance'.

From a Brisbane perspective, the better play long term would be to let Cooper Hodge play for Hawthorn.

 

[Yardie]

Which is fine for Cooper Hodge - and I don't think you'll have anyone on here arguing that this situation isn't absurd.

But if there's a Brisbane born and bred future Luke Hodge who doesn't want to uproot his family in the hope of a private school scholarship - then there should absolutely be better pathways available to him. As I have said above - it absolutely shouldn't be a talent hoarding facility for the northern clubs but the AFL should assume the academies and fully equip them so kids up there can get the same development as kids from WA/SA/Victoria/Tasmania. They should be doing the same in the NT also because kids should be able to stay with their families and communities up there rather than being shipped away to the private schools in Melbourne. The AFL could be doing so much better on this front, but of course aren't as per usual. The other 14 clubs should be petitioning the AFL hard to change the system so the academies are for the betterment of the code and competition - not just 4 clubs.

Agree 100% Ned. I was just pointing out that the son of a four time premiership player, three time premiership captain and norm smith medalist would have much more pathways available then the other kids.