Retired #21: Dyson Heppell - Goodnight, sweet prince. What a legend! 🤙 - 24/8

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Howard Moon said:
Had a massive 2 hour long argument yesterday , on whether Heppell was 'elite'

As with most footy arguments the original argument was lost in a pile of sematics, before long we were arguing about what elite actually is.

Eventually we decided that Elite was top 5% - say 40 avail players per club is 720 - 5% of is 36 .... i said no doubt he is in the best 36 players in the comp.. then they argued no, its position specific, there are more mids than others so they get a bigger slice, i argued them down to 15.

Is Dyson Heppell in the top 15 midfields in the game?

Immediatly i thought yes...

then they started reeling off names.

Dangefield Sloane Beams Rockliff Gibbs Pendlebury Sidebottom Watson Fyfe Selwood Ablett Treloar Lewis Boak Gray Martin Cotchin Parker Kennedy...

I started getting nervy.. gee theres alot of good midfielders out there. I agrued he won 4 player awards last year, they argued he dosent damage teams enough.

Is Dyson Heppel elite?

If we cared to rank the games mids, where is he? I know comparing players is hard - i guess all you can compare is impact on winning games.

Thoughts?
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I would add Kieran Jack (gun), Callan Ward (total gun), Ryan Griffen (freak show when fit) and David Mundy to the list of players that I reckon are better than Heppell currently is. Hamish Harlett can change a game on the back of his clearance work and cannon. Shit, on two games this year Bontempelli is one of the best players in the competition. McRae and Libba are very good mids whether they are better or not I don't care but they're at the same level.

I think what happened with Heppell is that he was (rightly) being compared to Pendlebury because he is a similar size, has similar athletic attributes, a similar loping run and as the finished product would end up playing like Pendlebury but it's just become this foregone conclusion that he has reached that level. That's the problem with a comparison it becomes a way to sink an underachieving player or the source of an unrealistic view of output.

I think someone asked me in another thread whether Pendlebury has the impact I say Heppell doesn't. Pendlebury uses strength and knowledge of a different spatial dimension to find space in traffic to work through a stoppage to impact it (Watson, as another example, uses a similar knowledge of space but combines it with brute force to overcome a lack of agility and athleticism). He can either break clear or uses handball or a kick to free up team mates. Pendlebury is also one of the best kicks of the footy over 50m going around.

Watch Heppell in close at the moment there is not a lot that is dynamic about his clearance work. He has no trouble getting his hands on the pill but it what happens from there that is my criticism of his being regarded elite (as opposed to his play which is fine). He doesn't burst onto the ball and smash it forward like Bontempelli is currently doing and he doesn't have the strength to absorb contact and dish off attacking handballs like Watson does.

His kicking is poor.

He could get no better and finish his career a 250+ game player of the Essendon football club, potentially a captain and really good player. None of it means that he is or ever was an elite player of the competition. The way he becomes elite is by developing a method to become a weapon within a stoppage and, ideally, by hitting the score board. Guys like Judd, Swan and Fyfe can get away with average kicking because they transform the stoppage with speed and power and get the ball forward to significant advantage.


Edit: you should also keep in mind that the club is not in any rush to develop young players physically and it is generally resulting in durable players who are playing a lot of footy in their formative years (mainly now at VFL level) which is not something that was happening in the past.

In the next 18 months I expect to see the physical improvement in Heppell that should see him take the next step as a player.
 
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Bruno, you are embarrassing yourself.

Heppell is elite in every way and turns games. Clutch moments exists every second of the game and not just highlights of goals and anything else.

One of the main reasons we've became a top 8 side the past few years is Heppell.

I'd take Heppell above anybody else bar G Ablett.
 

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Heppell is elite, there is no doubt about it. Because of his hair and how lithe his frame is, he looks like a soft player who isn't hard, which couldn't be further from the truth. He is always on the bottom of packs and is courageous, as evidenced by running with the flight of the ball and contesting aerially. He is easily pushed off the ball though, which is something I would like him to work on. Some strength through the core similar to Watson/Judd would be awesome on Hepp.
 
Pulling this over from the Merrett thread, and it even has direct relevance to the current discussion here:

BrunoV said:
Heppell doesn't hurt opponents.

Look at Fyfe and Bontempelli. Heppel is no where near as influential as those two.
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BrunoV said:
Not that there is any disgrace in it but he's Priddis. I think he lacks the real star top 15-20 player quality.
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He's not there yet (he's also 22, obviously), but there's a midpoint between a reliable team-carrier like Priddis and dynamic guys who have the sort of impact-per-touch that Fyfe and Pendlebury offer. Swan and Mitchell spring to mind as having cracked the top echelon without outstanding physical weapons (depends how you categorise Mitchell's two-footed-ness I suppose), and it's not outside the realms of possibility that Heppell could reach that level.
 
fodzilla said:
Pulling this over from the Merrett thread, and it even has direct relevance to the current discussion here:



He's not there yet (he's also 22, obviously), but there's a midpoint between a reliable team-carrier like Priddis and dynamic guys who have the sort of impact-per-touch that Fyfe and Pendlebury offer. Swan and Mitchell spring to mind as having cracked the top echelon without outstanding physical weapons (depends how you categorise Mitchell's two-footed-ness I suppose), and it's not outside the realms of possibility that Heppell could reach that level.
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if you get it enough, does that classify as an elite attribute?

The Swans, Rockliffs... pretty much butcher it but get their hands on the pill 40+ times a week. Does it make them elite?
 
Howard Moon said:
if you get it enough, does that classify as an elite attribute?

The Swans, Rockliffs... pretty much butcher it but get their hands on the pill 40+ times a week. Does it make them elite?
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Swans butcher is a 20 to 40 meter kick forward having left congestion is his wake. It's a very different thing to struggling to fire a handball off.
 
fodzilla said:
Pulling this over from the Merrett thread, and it even has direct relevance to the current discussion here:



He's not there yet (he's also 22, obviously), but there's a midpoint between a reliable team-carrier like Priddis and dynamic guys who have the sort of impact-per-touch that Fyfe and Pendlebury offer. Swan and Mitchell spring to mind as having cracked the top echelon without outstanding physical weapons (depends how you categorise Mitchell's two-footed-ness I suppose), and it's not outside the realms of possibility that Heppell could reach that level.
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Thing you're underestimating Swan's power. At his prime he was about as explosive a player as there was and, together with Mumford, Sandilands and Ablett, was probably the hardest player in the AFL to get off his feet.

It's certainly not all about speed. Watson, Mitchell and Pendlebury use combinations of guile, strength, agility and sublime skills (handballing and kicking) to have the impact of the elite. It's certainly not beyond Heppell, which is why I referred to what I see as the conservative nature of the strength and conditioning of our young players at the bottom of my post above.

Someone who is more savvy technically should go through the game against Hawthorn and create a package of every Heppell involvement and then every involvement of Watson. It's puts it into context. No point saying that Heppell is younger and less experienced, he is either part of the top 5% of midfielders at the moment or he isn't.

Edit: post relates more to the discussion in this thread than the quotes of mine in case some of it seems to lack context.
 
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Can't believe some people rate Martin higher than Hepps...

Martin may have a flashy run through the middle once or twice a game and a fend off here and there but Heppell is a constant around the ball and never goes missing when the game is in the balance.
 

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As good of a captain that Jobe is, would anyone consider letting Jobe play out the last few years (perhaps 2017+) with Heppell as captain? This bloke is an absolute star, and his leadership qualities are so obvious. Being at the game he just controls the stoppages and directs players 24/7. Could be one of the clubs all time greats by careers end.
 
JohnnyDrama1 said:
As good of a captain that Jobe is, would anyone consider letting Jobe play out the last few years (perhaps 2017+) with Heppell as captain? This bloke is an absolute star, and his leadership qualities are so obvious. Being at the game he just controls the stoppages and directs players 24/7. Could be one of the clubs all time greats by careers end.
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It's something the club should think about Jobe isn't going to be around for ever and could pre-long his career reckon Jobe would be more than happy to pass the baton.
 
Not that it is of any particular importance but he seems to have shot up an inch. Looks genuinely to be 191-192 these days.


Listening to Commetti talk about how sweet his left foot is and Bruce talk about how he is rarely run down really makes you wonder what these guys think they see.


Still, in was is the first half, at least, it has been one of his better games.
 
Beerfish said:
I just assumed he was a Bowie fan.
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The Ziggy report was actually written by Ziggy Stardust? would explain a few things...
 
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Retired #21: Dyson Heppell - Goodnight, sweet prince. What a legend! 🤙 - 24/8

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