Traded #22: Jake Carlisle - Pt.1 - Traded with some other stuff for pick 5, 24 and a Bird (cont in Part 2)

[MadSaint66]

Why not just give pick 5 if you are going to give us both 15 & 18 anyway and we just give 25 back, think saints need another 2nd rounder for Rice in the draft

We give 5 in this deal and get Carlisle and Freeman. I suppose that's the difference.
I don't think a straight swap for 5 on Carlisle will be possible now

 

[Doss]

It's almost insulting, but the worst part is his manager suggested it was a fair deal.
That's a worry.

It could well be postulating, trying to get us to blink.

In fact, it almost certainly is.

If we take that and don't insist on keeping one of 23 or 25 then we have monumentally failed.

 

[Doss]

We give 5 in this deal and get Carlisle and Freeman. I suppose that's the difference.
I don't think a straight swap for 5 on Carlisle will be possible now

No I don't think a straight 5 for Carlisle swap will happen either, but Carlisle+23+25 is ridiculous and the pick 63 coming back the other way is a nothing pick.

Carlisle+25, or Carlisle+23, is bearable although I still think St Kilda wins the deal overall even then. Asking for both 20s picks is greed.

 

[frenchfri12]

Just refuse St. Kilda every time and take the Hawthorn deal.

 

[Kingofthehill]

It could well be postulating, trying to get us to blink.

In fact, it almost certainly is.

If we take that and don't insist on keeping one of 23 or 25 then we have monumentally failed.

That certainly won't happen. They have more chance of giving up 5 as a straight swap than we have of giving 23 and 25 IMO

Dodoro knows the value of the 2.
Happier to use next years picks if we can upgrade this years.

 

[straightuplazy]

We give 5 in this deal and get Carlisle and Freeman. I suppose that's the difference.
I don't think a straight swap for 5 on Carlisle will be possible now

i'll be happy to give Carlisle+pick 25 for 5, seem like the mid point for both teams. Could the saints give a future 2nd round pick for freeman or is that round pick better next season and just better to give a 2nd rounder this year?

 

[Schopp]

Is there a chance that Carlisle is baulking at going to Hawthorn not because of less money, but more because he would be held more accountable at a bigger club??

The Hawks have not stuffed around with their big names, dropping some due to form, moving on players for the better of the club... all business. I would bet at the saints that jake would be guaranteed to be starting 22 every week, no seconds games and leadership group from day 1.

For a guy with supposed mental demons - Hawthorn just isn't the best club for him right now.

this sort of crossed my mind as well, he wouldn't be babied at hawthorn. I think Hale said when you come to Hawthorn a lot is expected of you.

 

[Kingofthehill]

this sort of crossed my mind as well, he wouldn't be babied at hawthorn. I think Hale said when you come to Hawthorn a lot is expected of you.

The opposite is probably true. If the Saints give up 5, as soon as he has a couple of bad games they'll come. At the Saints they'll expect him to be a main man.
At Hawthorn he'd be just another part of the machine. So many good players makes him just another

 

[Charliebrow 16]

So much drama over the last week, and finally we're moving closer to the deal we all thought would get it done originally. Carlisle and Melksham pick (25) for 5.

 

[Walesy]

StK get Carlisle and Freeman, give 5.
Haw get 5, give 15 & 18.
Ess get 15 & 18, give Carlisle and 23.
Coll get 23 and give Freeman.

Thoughts?

You can leave Hawthorne out with now effect of the trade.

Essendon keeps five instead of trading it for 15 and 18.

But then, that's just the Carlisle and 23 for 5 trade that should have gone through days ago.

 

[Charliebrow 16]

In saying that, if this drags out until Wednesday and Hawthorn are still lurking, it's going to be interesting to see whether Carlisle starts wobbling.

 

[Fin ice Smuggler]

It's almost insulting, but the worst part is his manager suggested it was a fair deal.
That's a worry.

as i said he's either been blackmailed or just dumb... should be talking up the hawks as a potential suitor even if he wants JC to get to Saints.

Saints 23 and 25 to on trade to GWS for pick 8. IMO

 

[MadSaint66]

i'll be happy to give Carlisle+pick 25 for 5, seem like the mid point for both teams. Could the saints give a future 2nd round pick for freeman or is that round pick better next season and just better to give a 2nd rounder this year?

I think you are close to the mark. I'm thinking there is a bit of trepidation about the trading of the future picks.

 

[Schopp]

The opposite is probably true. If the Saints give up 5, as soon as he has a couple of bad games they'll come. At the Saints they'll expect him to be a main man.
At Hawthorn he'd be just another part of the machine. So many good players makes him just another

really depends on mindset - i would have thought one who is fragile mentally may be more intimidated going to a place where excellence is expected. Perhaps if Richardson is more nurturing than Clarkson that would appeal to him. Either way there is going to be high expectation of him.

 

[Runk]

I think you are close to the mark. I'm thinking there is a bit of trepidation about the trading of the future picks.

By far and away the closest and most reasonable result. Still don't like it but if that's what has to happen then so be it.
As for future picks, the only way we'll truly know is the flow on effect come next year. Interesting times - although the idea of trading away picks is not not that sits well with me at all.

 

[MarkG]

really depends on mindset - i would have thought one who is fragile mentally may be more intimidated going to a place where excellence is expected. Perhaps if Richardson is more nurturing than Clarkson that would appeal to him. Either way there is going to be high expectation of him.

I think Carlisle will fit well into either Saints or Hawks. He is not a guy that gets too fussed. He is a ball magnet that will mark anything that is within range.

Just hope he doesn't turn it on when he plays against us.

 

[Kingofthehill]

I think you are close to the mark. I'm thinking there is a bit of trepidation about the trading of the future picks.

Close to the mark is Carlisle and 41.
On points values him at pick 9.
Dixon 10 and another 1st
Treloar 7 and next years 1st
Pick 9 seems reasonable.

 

[CBombers17]

Devaluing pic 25 because it was a good get for Melksham is bad business.

If we only had 23 in the second round would we be entertaining giving it up in this trade?

 

[Foxx]

If Carlisle says he only wants to go to the Saints, I think the best and fairest deal we could get will be:

Carlilse and 25 to St Kilda
5 and 45 to Essendon

I personally believe though Carlilse and 44 is a fair deal and Carlisle and 25 is not. But when a player only wants to go to one club, it makes it hard to get true value.

 

[Dave]

I still don't understand how the Saints could possibly think Carlisle plus 23 plus 25 for 5 is fair.

I could tolerate Carlisle plus one of 23 and 25. Not both.

Both is just greedy.

Ambit claim.

 

[burningdwarf]

You fellas willing to throw in 23 instead of 25?

 

[Resistor]

You fellas willing to throw in 23 instead of 25?

 

[cowboysteel66]

You fellas willing to throw in 23 instead of 25?

I would just take 25. No point haggling at all anymore. If that's dodoros counter offer I'd just do it

 

[CBombers17]

Close to the mark is Carlisle and 41.
On points values him at pick 9.
Dixon 10 and another 1st
Treloar 7 and next years 1st
Pick 9 seems reasonable.

I agree with this.

Further, I think it's time to be aggressive with the good work we have done so far. Upgrade pics to 8 (if that's what Dodoro wants) and come out in the media playing hardball - i.e we have tried to get a deal done with Saints and they've effectively offered pick 40 odd this is now what we have available.

We are under no obligation to wait for a better offer - or actually expect one will be forthcoming and should act accordingly.

Ameet made is bed with the stupid "pick 5 only under extraordinary circumstances" nonsense. Well it can get more extraordinary.

Negotiations are fluid, theres a time to sit and there's a time to move. When your opponents expect you to do something (like agree on one second rounder and sign) you make the move they least want.

We have the advantage in public support on something for the first time in years. Go for it.

 

[Its Manbearpig]

With the recruiting Dodo has done last year even the year before, I'd be happy with the hawks deal.. 15 and 18? Or something thats another set of Langford and Laverde and our pick 4..
Whether any team would swap 23 + 25 for a higher pick of course jump on that too.