Player Watch #22: Josh Caddy - Retired

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mopsy said:
Always na. I happen to agree with a awful lot of what others say. I dont just agree though because the majority say it.

Everyone knows im in Perth and i know im not invested in players like many others, i happen to think it allows me to be more objective. One thing for sure i always look at both sides of the debate and make my mind up from there. I dont think many invested supporters of all clubs are capable of that.
On Caddy so many wce freo supporters i have met are quite disparaging about him. In fact it was a wce mate who had me look more closely at caddy.Im not saying hes soft but he isnt the big tough player everyone here talks about in some ways he has been disappointing. Just my opinion.
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Not sure how you’re looking but Caddy wins most of his 1v1, hardly ever gets pushed off the ball, can tackle and more importantly makes good choices and more importantly still is that he knows how to find the goals.
l don’t know why but there are a few here that don’t think highly of him.
you're not the only one.
l don’t see it.
 
Hounddd said:
I think the point the posters are trying to make is that you just come across as someone who wants to be known "as having a different opinion to the norm". The 'norm' in this instance being adoring Richmond fans.

I guess its just that your pro Richmond player comments are so vastly out weighed by your negative comments towards our players. As such, it seems that your "I only speak the truth" mantra that you claim to have, comes off a little fake and manufactured. Hence, I understand why some people seem to think that you really are trying to just be different for the sake of being different/cool/against the grain/non compliant.

Given the current climate of our football club, if you were really just calling a spade a spade (as you claim), then your pro Richmond player comments would certainly outweigh those that are negative. Just my 2 cents :)
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Well written post and tough to disagree with your points, as confronting as some of them are.

I for one am grateful for the function Mopsy fulfils here. He gives posters with knowledge a good platform to launch a detailed defence of certain players(and recruiters,) which in turn helps us all to understand their roles better.

I often read his posts and think god Mopsy, you are gazing at a bed of world champion roses in magnificent bloom and all you see is the thorns. But this does challenge the views of others and therefore in many cases helps sharpen the focus of the prism through which we view the people we write about.

Mopsy, keep being Mopsy mate. The spoiler, the applecart upsetter, the thorn seer, the hard-line critic of the otherwise popular. Sincere or not, you add to the colour of the board.

As for Caddy, for my two bob’s...I think it is best to look at what value a player is adding, and weigh this against the opportunity cost of acquiring and having that player. I think trade wise he cost us about pick 27 or 28 equivalent. In his three seasons with us you could only describe that as good value for us. When you look at the long history of pick 27’s, some of the best ones are Kane Johnson, Brendan Gale, Ted Richards, Steven Baker, Sam Wright. He doesn’t look too far out of place on that list based on his Richmond service alone and those are the best ones. So you can only say that is a successful trade for Richmond. Then you consider his salary. I have no certain idea what he is on, but I imagine maybe $500k? Purely on his playing output you might say this is just fair value and that is about it. His next contract may be interesting, as I could see the possibility of him being reduced slightly.

The last thing you look at is his impact on the club on the whole. I am a bit with Mopsy on the verbalising of opponents and pushing and shoving. It is mostly of very limited value, but there are probably just some moments where you might be grateful for it. One such moment was the incidents around 1/4 time in the 2017 Grand Final when he flew the flag against a few Adelaide players who had appeared to come into the game with the idea in their heads they would bully the smaller and younger Richmond team. I thought his actions were useful right at that moment. The other thing it is tough to put a value on from the outside is the impact of his presence on Prestia and Lynch, and even possibly any role he played in luring Lynch to Tigerland. As we saw with English using his inside knowledge to advise the club over the recruitment Syd Stack, this type of effect of using previous connections constructively can be really important.

On the whole I would think Caddy has been at least fair value when weighed against what he has cost.
 

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Meteoric Rise said:
Well written post and tough to disagree with your points, as confronting as some of them are.

I for one am grateful for the function Mopsy fulfils here. He gives posters with knowledge a good platform to launch a detailed defence of certain players(and recruiters,) which in turn helps us all to understand their roles better.

I often read his posts and think god Mopsy, you are gazing at a bed of world champion roses in magnificent bloom and all you see is the thorns. But this does challenge the views of others and therefore in many cases helps sharpen the focus of the prism through which we view the people we write about.

Mopsy, keep being Mopsy mate. The spoiler, the applecart upsetter, the thorn seer, the hard-line critic of the otherwise popular. Sincere or not, you add to the colour of the board.

As for Caddy, for my two bob’s...I think it is best to look at what value a player is adding, and weigh this against the opportunity cost of acquiring and having that player. I think trade wise he cost us about pick 27 or 28 equivalent. In his three seasons with us you could only describe that as good value for us. When you look at the long history of pick 27’s, some of the best ones are Kane Johnson, Brendan Gale, Ted Richards, Steven Baker, Sam Wright. He doesn’t look too far out of place on that list based on his Richmond service alone and those are the best ones. So you can only say that is a successful trade for Richmond. Then you consider his salary. I have no certain idea what he is on, but I imagine maybe $500k? Purely on his playing output you might say this is just fair value and that is about it. His next contract may be interesting, as I could see the possibility of him being reduced slightly.

The last thing you look at is his impact on the club on the whole. I am a bit with Mopsy on the verbalising of opponents and pushing and shoving. It is mostly of very limited value, but there are probably just some moments where you might be grateful for it. One such moment was the incidents around 1/4 time in the 2017 Grand Final when he flew the flag against a few Adelaide players who had appeared to come into the game with the idea in their heads they would bully the smaller and younger Richmond team. I thought his actions were useful right at that moment. The other thing it is tough to put a value on from the outside is the impact of his presence on Prestia and Lynch, and even possibly any role he played in luring Lynch to Tigerland. As we saw with English using his inside knowledge to advise the club over the recruitment Syd Stack, this type of effect of using previous connections constructively can be really important.

On the whole I would think Caddy has been at least fair value when weighed against what he has cost.
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Well written but a bit interested in your second last line. What did English have to do with getting Stack other than they are both WA boys.
 
69vintage said:
They played in the same WA Colts side .

On SM-A520F using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Perhaps English gave a character reference that most recruiters didn't have the nous to source out, because it seems from day one Stack has impressed everyone with his attitude. RCD on a draft video was asked by recruiters to talk for 6 minutes about something other than footy. Stack probably talked about music and dancing... sorry mate, you aren't suited to playing AFL. The art of recruiting.
 
Grrr said:
Perhaps English gave a character reference that most recruiters didn't have the nous to source out, because it seems from day one Stack has impressed everyone with his attitude. RCD on a draft video was asked by recruiters to talk for 6 minutes about something other than footy. Stack probably talked about music and dancing... sorry mate, you aren't suited to playing AFL. The art of recruiting.
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6 minute adlib talk would be inaresting.
hmmm the rise of the Brazilians & state of prosurfing?
Kobe vs Michael
should AFLW have smaller grounds?
hazard reduction burning! pros and cons.
StKevins. Bolt & Henderson..
 
tora tora tora said:
6 minute adlib talk would be inaresting.
hmmm the rise of the Brazilians & state of prosurfing?
Kobe vs Michael
should AFLW have smaller grounds?
hazard reduction burning! pros and cons.
StKevins. Bolt & Henderson..
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UMmmm...errrrr....and then..ummmmhh...and then...ummmm...you know...eeerrr...pause....another pause...ummmhhh...and then...are we there yet?!?...
 
Grrr said:
You are not my 19 year old son are you.
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Just a phase mate I gave my mum and dad doughnuts between the ages of like 15 and 21

always had a good relationship with them but for whatever reason around those ages any input I had any convos with them was a single word or just a grunt
 

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tora tora tora said:
Been an amazing player for us. I think I'd prefer him up fwd. 3rd tall and play Ross on his wing. Heavy rotations on the other wing.
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Only downside is that I’m not sure if Ross is ready for the wing he’s a great young player and has a great offensive streak but I don’t know if he is ready for the defensive responsibility’s that’s come with playing on the wing Especially in one on one situations

not saying he can’t do it but at this stage I would be a lot more comfortable with that pressure on caddy
 
Grrr said:
Well written but a bit interested in your second last line. What did English have to do with getting Stack other than they are both WA boys.
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Yes as has been written in this thread English knew him from playing in the same underage team in WA. I read somewhere that it was English - after being drafted - who indicated that Richmond FC should recruit Stack. Things like this are invaluable contributions really, and I am sure English will be well remembered at the club whether he makes it as an AFL player or not.

If someone offers me next year’s number one pick for Sydney Stack I don’t think I would take it. Probably little doubt Prestia and to some extent Caddy’s presence at Tigerland helped lure Lynch. To get that pair plus Pickett without giving up any national or rookie draft pick, even former boxing promoter “break even” Bill Mordey would admit he was getting a win out of that lot, brilliant coups all of those.
 
IMHO its ok to not agree with the popular opioion. Dimma and co. are good but even they get it wrong sometimes.

Personally i think Caddy is not weak or soft. However I was worried about his agility and pace but his smarts cover it pretty well.

I do worry about him going back forward, if it would be 'top heavy' with Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty. Much of the good stuff Bolton, Lambert, Rioli, George etc. do is off the ball with pressure etc.
 
Marcel Proust said:
IMHO its ok to not agree with the popular opioion. Dimma and co. are good but even they get it wrong sometimes.

Personally i think Caddy is not weak or soft. However I was worried about his agility and pace but his smarts cover it pretty well.

I do worry about him going back forward, if it would be 'top heavy' with Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty. Much of the good stuff Bolton, Lambert, Rioli, George etc. do is off the ball with pressure etc.
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Team balance is important in my coaching pamphlet...
 
Marcel Proust said:
IMHO its ok to not agree with the popular opioion. Dimma and co. are good but even they get it wrong sometimes.

Personally i think Caddy is not weak or soft. However I was worried about his agility and pace but his smarts cover it pretty well.

I do worry about him going back forward, if it would be 'top heavy' with Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty. Much of the good stuff Bolton, Lambert, Rioli, George etc. do is off the ball with pressure etc.
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When Richmond recruited Caddy I'll openly admit I was horrified. I announced to my football buddies that the Tigers had stuffed up again. I saw Caddy as a plodder who was now making his way to a third club for the coin and unfortunately it was my club.
2017 rolled around and I was surprised as this bloke I had deemed to be too slow and nothing but another list clogger was actually performing reasonably well. Not a star but a solid contributor. By years end the Tigers had delivered the seemingly impossible and Caddy had been great value in finals matches. He under pressure stood up!

By 2018 the guy was almost All Australian and playing great football. Way above expectation.

2019 rolls around and the arrival of Lynch strips Caddy of his playing position, forces him into the 2s where he has to quickly reinvent himself as a winger. By seasons end he again was a valuable contributor who stood up in finals matches.

I didn't want this guy at Richmond but I was wrong! He has been nothing short of a very good contributor, added a hard edge and would be in my first dozen chosen. Not on talent but for his ability to stand up in big games. Yes we have many younger players that seem more talented but until they show they can play that hard edge football Caddy does, then he's the guy for me. Also he is in his infancy as a winger / half back. I see him improving the wing role he has played.

This guy has earned my respect and I am amazed others don't see it the same way.
 
It's not enough to judge players in isolation. Gotta look at them in the team context. For me the arrival of both Cads & Dion impacted ( took pressure off) Dusty & Cotch as well as their overall contribution to the team both on & off field. Difficult to exactly measure....but I don't t think it's coincidental that we won in 2017....
 
Marcel Proust said:
IMHO its ok to not agree with the popular opioion. Dimma and co. are good but even they get it wrong sometimes.

Personally i think Caddy is not weak or soft. However I was worried about his agility and pace but his smarts cover it pretty well.

I do worry about him going back forward, if it would be 'top heavy' with Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty. Much of the good stuff Bolton, Lambert, Rioli, George etc. do is off the ball with pressure etc.
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Im glad to hear you think its okay to not agree. Im also glad you can see they get things wrong at times.

No one said he was soft or weak but i do think he is not the tough hard guy people here make him out to be. Also people here are using a bit of push and shove and gobbing off as him being tough and imo that is a nonsense.

On your last point theres nothing wrong with him going fwd when Martin is onball they both wont be up there at the same time.
He did prove to be a very successful fwd when played there in 2018 46 goals in a season is not to be sneezed at.
Personally i hope we develop RCD in that mid fwd rotation swapping with Dusty. At 193cm and his explosive pace he would be a handful as a fwd for any defender. There is no reason why all three could not rotate thru the fwd line imo all three when its their turn in the midfield should play on ball.

Its in this where i think Caddy has been disappointing a big slow 186cm 88kg inside mid who doesnt perform there. Playing him on a wing is imo taking games away from other options and its not as if he is overly prolific in the role. Lets be honest wing or h/b are two spots where nearly all clubs get games into younger players.
Young Options for the wing would be Stack, Bolton, Ross for starters and theres a few others as well who may demand a spot there thru the yr.
Caddy is an experienced supposedly tough inside mid who should be the one going to the coal face instead of asking kids to do it.
Instead we give him one of the kids role and no one questions this.
 
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mopsy said:
Lets be honest wing or h/b are two spots where nearly all clubs get games into younger players.
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I think its become a more specialised spot
Henderson from Hawks
The pair of Mcluggag and Robinson from Bris.
Some of the reasons he can pinch a few fwd can be strengths on the wing with him anticipating and be a tricky match up.
I agree with you I don’t reckon he’s especially hard at it but you don’t get to be a fwd a follower and a wing if your a mugg.
I’d like to see games given to get more players over 60 games but I haven’t seen anyone play a better game on the wing than him...yet.
 
Cdog71 said:
I think its become a more specialised spot
Henderson from Hawks
The pair of Mcluggag and Robinson from Bris.
Some of the reasons he can pinch a few fwd can be strengths on the wing with him anticipating and be a tricky match up.
I agree with you I don’t reckon he’s especially hard at it but you don’t get to be a fwd a follower and a wing if your a mugg.
I’d like to see games given to get more players over 60 games but I haven’t seen anyone play a better game on the wing than him...yet.
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And if you want to play a youngster on the wing, play them on the other wing. Bob each way.
 

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Player Watch #22: Josh Caddy - Retired

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