VFL 2nd Semi Final - Carlton v Brisbane Sat Sept 3rd 12.05PM @ Moreton Bay Sports Complex

[macky99]

I worry the issue is between the ears. Do we have a list of resilient players who want to win the game for the team? Or do we have a list of players afraid of the responsibility? 0.6 against Collingwood. 3.8 today.

Bad.

The hurt from the Collingwood loss will hopefully be one of the key drivers to take the list to the next level, l think we need to back in the coaching group & key people there now to achieve this in 2023.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Mirkov is a better ruckman than TDK. Should have given a few games in the seniors.

Mirkov was getting beat by Fullarton early today but came back well in the second half which is a good sign.

However IMO he’s still at least 18 months away from having the body required to play ruck at AFL level and if he played this year he would have got monstered.

That said he is definitely worth persevering with whilst his body develops. Same goes for Akeui.

 

[Foucault1989]

I am not trying to convince you or anyone else, but you are cherry picking

We won close games against tge Hawks, Port, Dogs, Swans, come from behind against the Tigers in round 1, plenty of examples

Our total wins this year was within a range of what was capable this year

Sure but at the end of the day we had key chances to beat Melbourne and Collingwood and we melted down.

We've made progress - no doubt - but until we nail the key moments in a season to make finals, I'm not convinced. It's yet another September not playing finals. I'm sick of it!!

 

[Gethelred]

I worry the issue is between the ears. Do we have a list of resilient players who want to win the game for the team? Or do we have a list of players afraid of the responsibility? 0.6 against Collingwood. 3.8 today.

Bad.

I think that's not a permanent concern, unless and until it becomes evident that it doesn't improve.

I can pretty clearly remember a Sydney side getting taken to pieces by analysts in 2019-2020 due to poor strategies late in matches which let their opposition in. That is despite the leaders being more or less the same players out there right now; the difference being, better and more consistent footy across the board.

I'm not encouraged by this - it would be the wrong word to use concerning losses - but the coaching group cannot hide from this problem. You cannot just not address something this prominent across both ones and twos.

 

[Foucault1989]

The hurt from the Collingwood loss will hopefully be one of the key drivers to take the list to the next level, l think we need to back in the coaching group & key people there now to achieve this in 2023.

I back the coaches and administrators. Very impressed with Vossy. And yes I hope we come out in 2023 with a ruthless edge. It's what we are desperately lacking. Don't get 40 points up and let teams back in. If you need to beat teams like Adelaide to make finals, beat them by 6 goals. We panicked big time.

 

[Red_man2008]

3.8 in the last quarter.

That’s the game.

0.6 in the last quarter that’s the afl game.

 

[BigFrizz36]

It's like the loss is identical. No one is bashing individual players. It's the culture of the club. We are not delivering to win games. We don't know how to win when it matters.

It's not the culture of the club. It's 10 players who are fringe AFL or not close at all but the club is hoping might bridge the gap.

And 13 individuals who are not aligned to the club but are hoping to show that they might one day have the capacity to join the fringe.

Result is not really all that important but how the 10 who are on our list play and react under pressure situations like today is important. There were a few to like and a few who are a fair way away.

To put this down as the "culture of the club" is ridiculous.

 

[Arr0w]

Sure but at the end of the day we had key chances to beat Melbourne and Collingwood and we melted down.

We've made progress - no doubt - but until we nail the key moments in a season to make finals, I'm not convinced. It's yet another September not playing finals. I'm sick of it!!

I get it, not playing finals is disappointing, but whether we made it or not this year, has no relevance to next year

 

[Foucault1989]

It's not the culture of the club. It's 10 players who are fringe AFL or not close at all but the club is hoping might bridge the gap.

And 13 individuals who are not aligned to the club but are hoping to show that they might one day have the capacity to join the fringe.

Result is not really all that important but how the 10 who are on our list play and react under pressure situations like today is important. There were a few to lie snd a few who are a dairy way away.

To put this down as the "culture of the club" is ridiculous.

Okay mate. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Foucault1989]

I get it, not playing finals is disappointing, but whether we made it or not this year, has no relevance to next year

Eh...sure whatever. You don't think getting a taste of finals wouldn't have had tangible benefits for the players? Not a whole lot of finals experience on our list.

 

[Arr0w]

Eh...sure whatever. You don't think getting a taste of finals wouldn't have had tangible benefits for the players? Not a whole lot of finals experience on our list.

We will get plenty of licks of the ice cream

 

[Foucault1989]

We will get plenty of licks of the ice cream

I hope you're right Arrow. I'm optimistic but just want to see us take the next step into finals.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Okay mate. Thanks for your opinion.

Gee Richmond must have a poor culture, lost the elimination final in a way that similar to us and also lost three or 4 close games near the end of the season. Geelong must have a terrible culture to have made so many recent finals series without winning any. Brisbane's finals losses in recent times must be culture.

Culture is this all encompassing rubbish term that people trot out all of the time rather than look at what the actual reasons are.

But thanks anyway mate for your overaction to a reserves team loss when over half the team isn't on our list.

 

[Foucault1989]

Gee Richmond must have a poor culture, lost the elimination final in a way that similar to us and also lost three or 4 close games near the end of the season. Geelong must have a terrible culture to have made so many recent finals series without winning any. Brisbane's finals losses in recent times must be culture.

Culture is this all encompassing rubbish term that people trot out all of the time rather than look at what the actual reasons are.

But thanks anyway mate for your overaction to a reserves team loss when over half the team isn't on our list.

Citing teams that make finals might not help your argument.

I'm saying that there is a trend across our whole club in melting during big moments - players not taking responsibility. I worry there is a fear of failure which causes players to tense up. That is related to the culture of the club as it spreads like wild fire. Do we have enough players on our list who can hold it together when there is a lot on the line?

We haven't proven we can deliver unlike all those clubs you mentioned..

 

[BigFrizz36]

Citing teams that make finals might not help your argument.

I'm saying that there is a trend across our whole club in melting during big moments - players not taking responsibility. I worry there is a fear of failure which causes players to tense up. That is related to the culture of the club as it spreads like wild fire. Do we have enough players on our list who can hold it together when there is a lot on the line?

We haven't proven we can deliver unlike all those clubs you mentioned..

Its nothing like that at all. A simple look at our last two losses indicate pretty much what our problems are. We have some incredible strengths (e.g. brutal on ball division, two gun key forwards, a great looking backline on paper).

However we have some weaknesses, some of our making and some beyond our control. A long injury list can't be controlled (at least retrospectively) but our main weakness is that teams know that if they can soak up our pressure (against the Saints we kicked 10 - 18 and against Collingwood we kicked 0 -6 at the start of the last quarter) teams know that we can be easy to score against because we are easy to transition the ball against, particularly when we are going all out to win. Hence why we are looking at Acres, Scholl etc. It's an area that we need to put a fair bit of work in over summer and balance out our all out attack with the need to be able to cover transition. You could argue that the same thing happened today with players so keen to win we got too many ahead of the ball near the end. It's actually, if anything, a desire to win too much. Some tweaks and some new faces and we'll be O.K.

 

[Foucault1989]

Its nothing like that at all. A simple look at our last two losses indicate pretty much what our problems are. We have some incredible strengths (e.g. brutal on ball division, two gun key forwards, a great looking backline on paper).

However we have some weaknesses, some of our making and some beyond our control. A long injury list can't be controlled (at least retrospectively) but our main weakness is that teams know that if they can soak up our pressure (against the Saints we kicked 10 - 18 and against Collingwood we kicked 0 -6 at the start of the last quarter) teams know that we can be easy to score against because we are easy to transition the ball against, particularly when we are going all out to win. Hence why we are looking at Acres, Scholl etc. It's an area that we need to put a fair bit of work in over summer and balance out our all out attack with the need to be able to cover transition. You could argue that the same thing happened today with players so keen to win we got too many ahead of the ball near the end. It's actually, if anything, a desire to win too much. Some tweaks and some new faces and we'll be O.K.

Yep a few tweaks around the edges and we'll be okay....I feel like I've read this before?

 

[KohPhi]

I’m starting to really hate the lions. Absolutely living in fluke city this mob. No method to their game plan, it’s just rugby style football. All they do is just flood the contest, run around and make stuff happen.

That's generally what a decent side has to do to win a game.

 

[jackhardie409]

Gee Richmond must have a poor culture, lost the elimination final in a way that similar to us and also lost three or 4 close games near the end of the season. Geelong must have a terrible culture to have made so many recent finals series without winning any. Brisbane's finals losses in recent times must be culture.

Culture is this all encompassing rubbish term that people trot out all of the time rather than look at what the actual reasons are.

But thanks anyway mate for your overaction to a reserves team loss when over half the team isn't on our list.

People saying we should get a player off Geelong’s list to instill a winning culture on field legitimately have no idea. They have choked more big games away than anyone in the last decade

 

[BigFrizz36]

Yep a few tweaks around the edges and we'll be okay....I feel like I've read this before?

Not from me. At least I offered my thoughts, take them or leave them.

 

[KohPhi]

It's not the culture of the club. It's 10 players who are fringe AFL or not close at all but the club is hoping might bridge the gap.

And 13 individuals who are not aligned to the club but are hoping to show that they might one day have the capacity to join the fringe.

Result is not really all that important but how the 10 who are on our list play and react under pressure situations like today is important. There were a few to like and a few who are a fair way away.

To put this down as the "culture of the club" is ridiculous.

I agree..
99% of people here (me included) have no insight at all on the day to day running of the club. Unless a person is embedded within the club, its just guesswork and an easy 'go to' phrase.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

That's generally what a decent side has to do to win a game.

I’m saying that to point out that it won’t get it done in the end against the very best sides. Just too simple for the modern game.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I agree..
99% of people here (me included) have no insight at all on the day to day running of the club. Unless a person is embedded within the club, its just guesswork and an easy 'go to' phrase.

Agree. Surely if we had a bad culture we wouldn't be able to win 12 games and put ourselves in a position to win 4 or 5 more.

I would argue that the teams that you could say had poor culture this year were West Coast and * as they gave way less than they had the capacity to. (I would put North more down to list shape).

 

[Gethelred]

I agree..
99% of people here (me included) have no insight at all on the day to day running of the club. Unless a person is embedded within the club, its just guesswork and an easy 'go to' phrase.

I thought you were ITK!!!

 

[teknodeejay]

You're looking at it too simply. When push came to shove, the scores were level in the last. Nothing else matters. You stand up and win the game when it is on the line or you don't.

Accuses someone of looking at it too simply. Gives the most simple explanation ever.

 

[agro]

Playing the same style of football in the VFL and AFL so that’s a win right there.