Care to elaborate?
Certified Legendary Thread 34 Essendon* Players suspended for doping violations - No opposition fans. Check OP for thread rules
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A bit cryptic for me mate...
He can't, because he already knows what they were injected with. He certainly doesn't want everyone else to know. #taintedbrownlow
Moody Blue
Premiership Player
In case you haven't seen it......www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmFz-vx0Aw0
Perhaps a new nickname for Jab is in order. I nominate "George Costanza".
Love this.
It's abudantly clear from the transcripts and all the other evidence that no player set out to cheat. It's also clear that they sought some assurances from the club that it was all legit. This a program that was ticked off by the head coach and footy ops manager. The players were under pressure from an employer who was telling them it was all above board. Could they have done more? Sure. But don't forget that they eventually did and the program was stopped.
With all that in mind, I find the "no sympathy, **** the players" tough guy line ridiculous, particularly from people sitting behind computers who have never even set foot inside an AFL club or any professional sporting environment. We all make mistakes and in the context of the complete cluster**** this event represents for Essendon, I think the players are the least blameworthy and by the length of the flemington straight.
And just to clarify - I'm not saying there should be NO punishment, that's up to CAS. I'm just saying I have a lot of sympathy for them and the position Essendon put them in. I hope they get some leniency. Hird, Thompson, Corcoran and those who generally run Essendon can all go and get ****ed however.
BluStreak
Norm Smith Medallist
Did the players stop the program or the club?
The way your wrote that it reads the players stopped the program.
Whereas I believe that it stopped because they were found out.
I thought the evidence was clearly that it stopped halfway through the 2012 season when the players started complaining and all the soft tissue injuries started mounting up. They didn't self report until the next year.
I imagine they will get leniency, not least of which because my understanding is that the bar of comfortable satisfaction rides on the severity of the outcome to the accused... in other words, if you are going to suspend players for two years of a career that at best is about a decade long, usually less, then you have to be damn sure they did it. I don't think WADA wants the players strung up, I think they just do not want the precedent set of destroying records being a means of getting away with doping as the AFL tribunal allowed.
The trouble is, the club have effectively used the players as a human shield to get away with it, and now the only means of punishing the club for doping is to punish the players. Remember, the AFL penalties were for governance. If CAS finds the players guilty and there is no further action against the club that doped them, then the club has not been penalised for doping.
I don't feel sorry for the players in so far as they sought an advantage over their opponents through the use of PEDs, whether they thought they were prohibited or not. Buy the ticket, take the ride. And they have not missed a match or a pay cheque or footed a legal bill throughout.
I would not, however, be unhappy for them to have their penalty backdated entirely, as long as the EFC are shown to be the cheats and liars they are, and the AFL held up to the world as a shameless bunch of grubby fixers.
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Nope. At the end of 2011 after a hiding from Carlton there is no doubt the golden boy put forth a proposition to the players promising greatness. It would have been a spectacular presentation by the coaching dream team with a one in all in buy in. Who would question the golden boy or bomber? Or promise of a place in history, footballing greatness?
No doubt it initially started off clean, and this alone has been what's saved the club to date. But once the results started coming through and they began tinkering with the ingredients none of the players complained, especially after sitting on top of the ladder and smashing every club just 5 months after their embarrassing exit from that Elimination final.
We're not talking about 16 year old kids here. It was pretty much their entire group including their captain and a 40 year old player who does know better. The were lead by past greats and elders of the club and a club captain. They signed consent forms, they signed confidentially forms. They were told not to say anything to any one, including the club doctor. The players knew they were treading the line.
I just don't buy into the continued PR by Essendon that the players are victims. Bulls**t, they chased glory under the unfortunate banner of "what ever it takes". They rolled the dice.
They're not blameless. They're told from a young age to be 100% aware of everything they put into their bodies. They didn't even question what they were being injected with--because they didn't want to know or because they knew it was wrong? Who knows.
I have a connection to the club that some people are aware of that makes me feel sympathy for the players to a degree (the juniors didn't have much hope in that environment but the senior players certainly did) and I won't say "**** the players"...but they're not blameless here.
My view is that Essendon got off EXTREMELY lightly...and I say that having a fair degree of inside knowledge about what happened.
They did question what it was and sought assurances it was legit. But like I said, I think they should have done more,...and that wasn't directed at you particularly by the way.
Was not having a crack at you. Your post was sound, I was just discussing it.
Yeah, they asked the people giving them the injections. In my opinion, Watson, Fletcher, the leadership group--they had a responsibility to do more. The 18 year old fresh draftees...anyone else in their situation more than likely would have done the same.
Was not having a crack at you. Your post was sound, I was just discussing it.
All good, I didn't take it that way.
I think your point about WADA and the bigger picture is a really good one and I agree, I think WADA are doing it for exactly that reason. I believe in the importance of that and if they cop suspensions for that reasons, so be it. I suppose I'm just saying that I think it's possible to simultaneously support WADA and feel sympathy for the players.
That leads to another point - the AFL are probably not blameless either. Essendon got off too lightly.
They sought assurances from the club generally as well. I agree that sportspeople should know enough to avoid any injection (particularly from a non-medico like Dank) and should basically ask to see the bottle when it happens...But the idea that they just sat there silently is a bit misleading imo. They took some steps, just not enough.
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Yeah. * have been penalised for governance issues... exactly what penalties are due for systematic doping?
Would have to be more severe than what Adelaide copped for Tippetgate... which the governance penalties were not. I would argue that doping is worse than rorting the salary cap too, by some margin.
Out of the first and second rounds of the draft for two seasons, no end of first round concessions either this time, playing for no points for one or two years as well. No point in fining them, the AFL would just give the money back under some pretext, with interest.
Will not happen of course. AFL will leave well enough alone now. But at least we can safely say that while EFC may have not been held accountable, the Karma bus smacked them at 200kmh, and despite all the comrades that St Jimmy chucked under it to protect himself, it ran him down in the end.
The thing that bugs me most about Hird is that he didn't check. I heard Brad Scott speak at a public breakfast once and he said almost his first job at North was to hire a sports scientist type. He was given Dank's resume and he said it took one conversation with an NRL contact to ralise they should steer clear of him. One call. And this pre-dates any of the stuff actually coming out about him
Spare me.
These are grown adult men, not children. If a 14 year old kid can check up on these things and know better not to blindly follow an injection program like this, they have absolutely zero excuse.
Not too sure about that.
If they are found guilty, the public uproar and pressure not only from that, but from other sporting organisations, might be severe enough to force them to act. That said, having being forced to play a VFL side for two years might be punishment enough. Premiership points/awards should be taken from them from 2012-2013 at the very least.
Would have thought one phone call with Dank would be enough to set alarm bells off.
The guy is dumb and a weasel.
It does seem inconceivable that the players could be found guilty of doping and the club that doped them not get penalised at all for it. But that is how the AFL roll. They did everything in their power to get the players, and therefore the club, off. Once it gets back into their jurisdiction I can't see any change in that policy.
You mean Brownlow. Totally agree.
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