Player Watch #44 Jake Lloyd

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Jake Lloyd

Player Profile
Jake Lloyd is a ball magnet, an endurance machine, a clean user of the footy and a calming influence on the Sydney Swans’ half-back line. The former rookie-listed Swan averaged 27.22 disposals per match between 2016 and 2019 and won the club’s 2018 Bob Skilton Medal. Lloyd became the quickest Swan in history to reach 100 senior games when he ran out against Hawthorn at the MCG in Round 8, 2018. He was then recognised as one of the best players in the league when he was selected for Victoria in the State of Origin match for bushfire relief in February 2019. Draft history: 2013 Rookie Draft selection (Sydney) No. 15; 2014 AFL Draft rookie elevation (Sydney).

Jake Lloyd

DOB: 20 September 1993
DEBUT: 2013
DRAFT: 2014
RECRUITED FROM: Horsham Demons (Vic)/North Ballarat U18

www.sydneyswans.com.au

Jake Lloyd | AFL

Follow Jake Lloyd's progress through AFL
www.sydneyswans.com.au www.sydneyswans.com.au
 
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Had a good 2nd half of the year but was really hoping we’d save the $ that was to go to lloyd and try to tempt a key position player, feel like a Campbell could replace a similar output with some continuity or bringing in Gould and having Rampe play small
 
Interestingly Lloyd got the 4th-most votes in the best & fairest from round 19 to the grand final, the most important 8-game stretch the club has played since at least 2014 IMO.

We can argue about him til we're blue in the face but the coaches clearly value him and what he provides the team, in particular the back six.
 
My off-season deep-dive #9 is Jake Llllllllloooooyyyyyddd.

Because what Grand Uncle Horace wants, he gets.

Disclaimer: Jake Lloyd is my second-favourite current Swans player. We are entering scary territory where my two current favourite Swans are both going to be on the wrong side of 30 by the end of this year, and the only one I have a near-equal love for (Robbie Fox) isn't much better.

It's hard to talk about Jake Lloyd's game without talking about the coaches, because it's largely been through their sphere that we've evaluated Lloyd's career. One of our most prolific players ever no doubt, but with very few highlights; dismissed by the All Australian selectors, barely recognised outside of the Swans in anything other than a Fantasy/Supercoach context. And yet he's a two-time Bob Skilton Medallist, as well as a two-time runner-up.

As mentioned in the comment above, Lloyd got the 4th-most B&F votes from the coaches after round 18, when we went 8-1, won three games against top 4 sides and two finals, and when our back-line was at it's best, the best it's been since at least 2017/2018, when we still had prime-Rampe, Grundy, Smith, etc. The only players who got more votes in that period were all inside mids: Rowbottom, Parker, Mills.

Clearly the coaches are seeing something that many fans are not.

I think there's two factors for this disconnect: Lloyd's strengths are the unseen things; his weaknesses are the most visible of things.

He's outstanding at pushing from contest to contest, always staying involved, providing the outlet, marshalling the ball out to the more dangerous users such as Florent, Blakey and Fox (akin to the role that Pendlebury was playing at HB with Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, etc.) These things aren't flashy, and indeed his running patterns and constant movement around the contest aren't going to be noticed because people are too busy looking at the contest. He is essentially the glue holding all of the flashier, more eye-catching pieces of our back-line together.

He's not very good in one-on-one contests, and is prone to shanks when kicking in (I miss the running bet that he'd kick one out on the full, under no pressure, every single week for about two years straight.) Unfortunately for Lloyd, these things might only happen a few times a match for him, but when they do, they're wide open, for everyone to see. You can't miss Lloyd putting in a feeble attempt to stop a small forward from marking on the lead; and you can't miss him spraying a kick out of bounds or hitting an opposition player lace-out from the kick-in when literally every eye in the ground is on him.

And these end up what people remember, and find most irritating about Lloyd. And all of the good work he does, ends up falling by the wayside.

This is particularly frustrating for me because for about five years now - going back to the time I infamously called Lloyd a top 50 player in the comp, which Punts absolutely loved - I have believed he shouldn't be used in this way that will constantly get him into trouble. I much prefer him as more of a high half back, getting the handball receive from the kick-in so he can push up through the corridor, or pushing up on the back of the centre bounces for the handball receive with his hard-running, like Shaun Burgoyne and Bachar Houli were doing for their premiership sides.

Hitting short, lead-up targets at full-speed, there are few better Swans at it than Lloyd. Stationary, his kicking is all over the shop. We need him on the move. This is a player who was once regarded as the fittest bloke at the club (I'm not sure if he's faded in this aspect - I haven't heard him mentioned in 2k time trial conversations in a few years now?) We should have him covering the ground, using his running power to put opposition forwards to work. Not putting HIM to work on THEM.

As I mentioned in another thread, hopefully the emergence of Blakey, Florent and potentially Campbell (dunno about this one) will alleviate Lloyd of his small defender/last-line-of-defence possession-getter status, and get him playing as a true half back flanker again, using the wings and the corridors like he did at his absolute best several years ago before he started getting pushed deeper into defence. He will still be able to be coordinator and the key cog in our defensive transitions, so all of his unseen work will still be first-rate, but he can step out into the light and shine a bit more as well. I firmly believe he is capable because he showed it.

As for his place in the team, I don't think it is under threat. I'm sure people have players they prefer to Lloyd, who they think are better than Lloyd. But when half your value to the team is in the experience and nous you provide to an entire defensive system, that is not so easy to replace by any of your less-experienced underlings.
 
caesar88 said:
My off-season deep-dive #9 is Jake Llllllllloooooyyyyyddd.

Because what Grand Uncle Horace wants, he gets.

Disclaimer: Jake Lloyd is my second-favourite current Swans player. We are entering scary territory where my two current favourite Swans are both going to be on the wrong side of 30 by the end of this year, and the only one I have a near-equal love for (Robbie Fox) isn't much better.

It's hard to talk about Jake Lloyd's game without talking about the coaches, because it's largely been through their sphere that we've evaluated Lloyd's career. One of our most prolific players ever no doubt, but with very few highlights; dismissed by the All Australian selectors, barely recognised outside of the Swans in anything other than a Fantasy/Supercoach context. And yet he's a two-time Bob Skilton Medallist, as well as a two-time runner-up.

As mentioned in the comment above, Lloyd got the 4th-most B&F votes from the coaches after round 18, when we went 8-1, won three games against top 4 sides and two finals, and when our back-line was at it's best, the best it's been since at least 2017/2018, when we still had prime-Rampe, Grundy, Smith, etc. The only players who got more votes in that period were all inside mids: Rowbottom, Parker, Mills.

Clearly the coaches are seeing something that many fans are not.

I think there's two factors for this disconnect: Lloyd's strengths are the unseen things; his weaknesses are the most visible of things.

He's outstanding at pushing from contest to contest, always staying involved, providing the outlet, marshalling the ball out to the more dangerous users such as Florent, Blakey and Fox (akin to the role that Pendlebury was playing at HB with Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, etc.) These things aren't flashy, and indeed his running patterns and constant movement around the contest aren't going to be noticed because people are too busy looking at the contest. He is essentially the glue holding all of the flashier, more eye-catching pieces of our back-line together.

He's not very good in one-on-one contests, and is prone to shanks when kicking in (I miss the running bet that he'd kick one out on the full, under no pressure, every single week for about two years straight.) Unfortunately for Lloyd, these things might only happen a few times a match for him, but when they do, they're wide open, for everyone to see. You can't miss Lloyd putting in a feeble attempt to stop a small forward from marking on the lead; and you can't miss him spraying a kick out of bounds or hitting an opposition player lace-out from the kick-in when literally every eye in the ground is on him.

And these end up what people remember, and find most irritating about Lloyd. And all of the good work he does, ends up falling by the wayside.

This is particularly frustrating for me because for about five years now - going back to the time I infamously called Lloyd a top 50 player in the comp, which Punts absolutely loved - I have believed he shouldn't be used in this way that will constantly get him into trouble. I much prefer him as more of a high half back, getting the handball receive from the kick-in so he can push up through the corridor, or pushing up on the back of the centre bounces for the handball receive with his hard-running, like Shaun Burgoyne and Bachar Houli were doing for their premiership sides.

Hitting short, lead-up targets at full-speed, there are few better Swans at it than Lloyd. Stationary, his kicking is all over the shop. We need him on the move. This is a player who was once regarded as the fittest bloke at the club (I'm not sure if he's faded in this aspect - I haven't heard him mentioned in 2k time trial conversations in a few years now?) We should have him covering the ground, using his running power to put opposition forwards to work. Not putting HIM to work on THEM.

As I mentioned in another thread, hopefully the emergence of Blakey, Florent and potentially Campbell (dunno about this one) will alleviate Lloyd of his small defender/last-line-of-defence possession-getter status, and get him playing as a true half back flanker again, using the wings and the corridors like he did at his absolute best several years ago before he started getting pushed deeper into defence. He will still be able to be coordinator and the key cog in our defensive transitions, so all of his unseen work will still be first-rate, but he can step out into the light and shine a bit more as well. I firmly believe he is capable because he showed it.

As for his place in the team, I don't think it is under threat. I'm sure people have players they prefer to Lloyd, who they think are better than Lloyd. But when half your value to the team is in the experience and nous you provide to an entire defensive system, that is not so easy to replace by any of your less-experienced underlings.
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fantastic work C88 and much appreciated. I expect Jake has proved one of our most coachable players. Nowadays our backline is stacked with great kicks and he can now be relieved of the onerous kick in role. Agree a return to HB or wing would suit the team. Am pretty sure he can run all day, but lacks a bit of acceleration
 
caesar88 said:
My off-season deep-dive #9 is Jake Llllllllloooooyyyyyddd.

Because what Grand Uncle Horace wants, he gets.

Disclaimer: Jake Lloyd is my second-favourite current Swans player. We are entering scary territory where my two current favourite Swans are both going to be on the wrong side of 30 by the end of this year, and the only one I have a near-equal love for (Robbie Fox) isn't much better.

It's hard to talk about Jake Lloyd's game without talking about the coaches, because it's largely been through their sphere that we've evaluated Lloyd's career. One of our most prolific players ever no doubt, but with very few highlights; dismissed by the All Australian selectors, barely recognised outside of the Swans in anything other than a Fantasy/Supercoach context. And yet he's a two-time Bob Skilton Medallist, as well as a two-time runner-up.

As mentioned in the comment above, Lloyd got the 4th-most B&F votes from the coaches after round 18, when we went 8-1, won three games against top 4 sides and two finals, and when our back-line was at it's best, the best it's been since at least 2017/2018, when we still had prime-Rampe, Grundy, Smith, etc. The only players who got more votes in that period were all inside mids: Rowbottom, Parker, Mills.

Clearly the coaches are seeing something that many fans are not.

I think there's two factors for this disconnect: Lloyd's strengths are the unseen things; his weaknesses are the most visible of things.

He's outstanding at pushing from contest to contest, always staying involved, providing the outlet, marshalling the ball out to the more dangerous users such as Florent, Blakey and Fox (akin to the role that Pendlebury was playing at HB with Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, etc.) These things aren't flashy, and indeed his running patterns and constant movement around the contest aren't going to be noticed because people are too busy looking at the contest. He is essentially the glue holding all of the flashier, more eye-catching pieces of our back-line together.

He's not very good in one-on-one contests, and is prone to shanks when kicking in (I miss the running bet that he'd kick one out on the full, under no pressure, every single week for about two years straight.) Unfortunately for Lloyd, these things might only happen a few times a match for him, but when they do, they're wide open, for everyone to see. You can't miss Lloyd putting in a feeble attempt to stop a small forward from marking on the lead; and you can't miss him spraying a kick out of bounds or hitting an opposition player lace-out from the kick-in when literally every eye in the ground is on him.

And these end up what people remember, and find most irritating about Lloyd. And all of the good work he does, ends up falling by the wayside.

This is particularly frustrating for me because for about five years now - going back to the time I infamously called Lloyd a top 50 player in the comp, which Punts absolutely loved - I have believed he shouldn't be used in this way that will constantly get him into trouble. I much prefer him as more of a high half back, getting the handball receive from the kick-in so he can push up through the corridor, or pushing up on the back of the centre bounces for the handball receive with his hard-running, like Shaun Burgoyne and Bachar Houli were doing for their premiership sides.

Hitting short, lead-up targets at full-speed, there are few better Swans at it than Lloyd. Stationary, his kicking is all over the shop. We need him on the move. This is a player who was once regarded as the fittest bloke at the club (I'm not sure if he's faded in this aspect - I haven't heard him mentioned in 2k time trial conversations in a few years now?) We should have him covering the ground, using his running power to put opposition forwards to work. Not putting HIM to work on THEM.

As I mentioned in another thread, hopefully the emergence of Blakey, Florent and potentially Campbell (dunno about this one) will alleviate Lloyd of his small defender/last-line-of-defence possession-getter status, and get him playing as a true half back flanker again, using the wings and the corridors like he did at his absolute best several years ago before he started getting pushed deeper into defence. He will still be able to be coordinator and the key cog in our defensive transitions, so all of his unseen work will still be first-rate, but he can step out into the light and shine a bit more as well. I firmly believe he is capable because he showed it.

As for his place in the team, I don't think it is under threat. I'm sure people have players they prefer to Lloyd, who they think are better than Lloyd. But when half your value to the team is in the experience and nous you provide to an entire defensive system, that is not so easy to replace by any of your less-experienced underlings.
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I’m struggling here - your two favourite players are Lloyd and:

(a) Buddy;
(b) Sir Dane; or
(c) Ruck Jesus.

I’m going to have a swing at (a), but feel I could prospectively flunk this test.
 
Dubai Quacker said:
I’m struggling here - your two favourite players are Lloyd and:

(a) Buddy;
(b) Sir Dane; or
(c) Ruck Jesus.

I’m going to have a swing at (a), but feel I could prospectively flunk this test.
Click to expand...
Are you well DQ?!

B!
 
caesar88 said:
My off-season deep-dive #9 is Jake Llllllllloooooyyyyyddd.

Because what Grand Uncle Horace wants, he gets.

Disclaimer: Jake Lloyd is my second-favourite current Swans player. We are entering scary territory where my two current favourite Swans are both going to be on the wrong side of 30 by the end of this year, and the only one I have a near-equal love for (Robbie Fox) isn't much better.

It's hard to talk about Jake Lloyd's game without talking about the coaches, because it's largely been through their sphere that we've evaluated Lloyd's career. One of our most prolific players ever no doubt, but with very few highlights; dismissed by the All Australian selectors, barely recognised outside of the Swans in anything other than a Fantasy/Supercoach context. And yet he's a two-time Bob Skilton Medallist, as well as a two-time runner-up.

As mentioned in the comment above, Lloyd got the 4th-most B&F votes from the coaches after round 18, when we went 8-1, won three games against top 4 sides and two finals, and when our back-line was at it's best, the best it's been since at least 2017/2018, when we still had prime-Rampe, Grundy, Smith, etc. The only players who got more votes in that period were all inside mids: Rowbottom, Parker, Mills.

Clearly the coaches are seeing something that many fans are not.

I think there's two factors for this disconnect: Lloyd's strengths are the unseen things; his weaknesses are the most visible of things.

He's outstanding at pushing from contest to contest, always staying involved, providing the outlet, marshalling the ball out to the more dangerous users such as Florent, Blakey and Fox (akin to the role that Pendlebury was playing at HB with Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, etc.) These things aren't flashy, and indeed his running patterns and constant movement around the contest aren't going to be noticed because people are too busy looking at the contest. He is essentially the glue holding all of the flashier, more eye-catching pieces of our back-line together.

He's not very good in one-on-one contests, and is prone to shanks when kicking in (I miss the running bet that he'd kick one out on the full, under no pressure, every single week for about two years straight.) Unfortunately for Lloyd, these things might only happen a few times a match for him, but when they do, they're wide open, for everyone to see. You can't miss Lloyd putting in a feeble attempt to stop a small forward from marking on the lead; and you can't miss him spraying a kick out of bounds or hitting an opposition player lace-out from the kick-in when literally every eye in the ground is on him.

And these end up what people remember, and find most irritating about Lloyd. And all of the good work he does, ends up falling by the wayside.

This is particularly frustrating for me because for about five years now - going back to the time I infamously called Lloyd a top 50 player in the comp, which Punts absolutely loved - I have believed he shouldn't be used in this way that will constantly get him into trouble. I much prefer him as more of a high half back, getting the handball receive from the kick-in so he can push up through the corridor, or pushing up on the back of the centre bounces for the handball receive with his hard-running, like Shaun Burgoyne and Bachar Houli were doing for their premiership sides.

Hitting short, lead-up targets at full-speed, there are few better Swans at it than Lloyd. Stationary, his kicking is all over the shop. We need him on the move. This is a player who was once regarded as the fittest bloke at the club (I'm not sure if he's faded in this aspect - I haven't heard him mentioned in 2k time trial conversations in a few years now?) We should have him covering the ground, using his running power to put opposition forwards to work. Not putting HIM to work on THEM.

As I mentioned in another thread, hopefully the emergence of Blakey, Florent and potentially Campbell (dunno about this one) will alleviate Lloyd of his small defender/last-line-of-defence possession-getter status, and get him playing as a true half back flanker again, using the wings and the corridors like he did at his absolute best several years ago before he started getting pushed deeper into defence. He will still be able to be coordinator and the key cog in our defensive transitions, so all of his unseen work will still be first-rate, but he can step out into the light and shine a bit more as well. I firmly believe he is capable because he showed it.

As for his place in the team, I don't think it is under threat. I'm sure people have players they prefer to Lloyd, who they think are better than Lloyd. But when half your value to the team is in the experience and nous you provide to an entire defensive system, that is not so easy to replace by any of your less-experienced underlings.
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Such a fanboi! ;) (is that what young-uns call them these days?)
 
dosser said:
Such a fanboi! ;)
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The biggest!

I remember back in 2016(?) I met a bunch of the boys and asked them for autographs. A flock of people went to Buddy, Rampe, JPK, Parker, Hanners etc. All the guys you'd expect. I made a bee-line straight for Lloyd because I just loved the way he played. I mentioned he was one of my favourite players and he seemed genuinely stunned, like it was the first time he'd ever heard he was someone's favourite or something. He was such a humble bloke, and I'm sure still is.

So if he hadn't won me over already, he definitely did that day!
 

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caesar88 said:
The biggest!

I remember back in 2016(?) I met a bunch of the boys and asked them for autographs. A flock of people went to Buddy, Rampe, JPK, Parker, Hanners etc. All the guys you'd expect. I made a bee-line straight for Lloyd because I just loved the way he played. I mentioned he was one of my favourite players and he seemed genuinely stunned, like it was the first time he'd ever heard he was someone's favourite or something. He was such a humble bloke, and I'm sure still is.

So if he hadn't won me over already, he definitely did that day!
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He probably still remembers you as the guy who said that to him.
 
caesar88 said:
My off-season deep-dive #9 is Jake Llllllllloooooyyyyyddd.

Because what Grand Uncle Horace wants, he gets.

Disclaimer: Jake Lloyd is my second-favourite current Swans player. We are entering scary territory where my two current favourite Swans are both going to be on the wrong side of 30 by the end of this year, and the only one I have a near-equal love for (Robbie Fox) isn't much better.

It's hard to talk about Jake Lloyd's game without talking about the coaches, because it's largely been through their sphere that we've evaluated Lloyd's career. One of our most prolific players ever no doubt, but with very few highlights; dismissed by the All Australian selectors, barely recognised outside of the Swans in anything other than a Fantasy/Supercoach context. And yet he's a two-time Bob Skilton Medallist, as well as a two-time runner-up.

As mentioned in the comment above, Lloyd got the 4th-most B&F votes from the coaches after round 18, when we went 8-1, won three games against top 4 sides and two finals, and when our back-line was at it's best, the best it's been since at least 2017/2018, when we still had prime-Rampe, Grundy, Smith, etc. The only players who got more votes in that period were all inside mids: Rowbottom, Parker, Mills.

Clearly the coaches are seeing something that many fans are not.

I think there's two factors for this disconnect: Lloyd's strengths are the unseen things; his weaknesses are the most visible of things.

He's outstanding at pushing from contest to contest, always staying involved, providing the outlet, marshalling the ball out to the more dangerous users such as Florent, Blakey and Fox (akin to the role that Pendlebury was playing at HB with Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, etc.) These things aren't flashy, and indeed his running patterns and constant movement around the contest aren't going to be noticed because people are too busy looking at the contest. He is essentially the glue holding all of the flashier, more eye-catching pieces of our back-line together.

He's not very good in one-on-one contests, and is prone to shanks when kicking in (I miss the running bet that he'd kick one out on the full, under no pressure, every single week for about two years straight.) Unfortunately for Lloyd, these things might only happen a few times a match for him, but when they do, they're wide open, for everyone to see. You can't miss Lloyd putting in a feeble attempt to stop a small forward from marking on the lead; and you can't miss him spraying a kick out of bounds or hitting an opposition player lace-out from the kick-in when literally every eye in the ground is on him.

And these end up what people remember, and find most irritating about Lloyd. And all of the good work he does, ends up falling by the wayside.

This is particularly frustrating for me because for about five years now - going back to the time I infamously called Lloyd a top 50 player in the comp, which Punts absolutely loved - I have believed he shouldn't be used in this way that will constantly get him into trouble. I much prefer him as more of a high half back, getting the handball receive from the kick-in so he can push up through the corridor, or pushing up on the back of the centre bounces for the handball receive with his hard-running, like Shaun Burgoyne and Bachar Houli were doing for their premiership sides.

Hitting short, lead-up targets at full-speed, there are few better Swans at it than Lloyd. Stationary, his kicking is all over the shop. We need him on the move. This is a player who was once regarded as the fittest bloke at the club (I'm not sure if he's faded in this aspect - I haven't heard him mentioned in 2k time trial conversations in a few years now?) We should have him covering the ground, using his running power to put opposition forwards to work. Not putting HIM to work on THEM.

As I mentioned in another thread, hopefully the emergence of Blakey, Florent and potentially Campbell (dunno about this one) will alleviate Lloyd of his small defender/last-line-of-defence possession-getter status, and get him playing as a true half back flanker again, using the wings and the corridors like he did at his absolute best several years ago before he started getting pushed deeper into defence. He will still be able to be coordinator and the key cog in our defensive transitions, so all of his unseen work will still be first-rate, but he can step out into the light and shine a bit more as well. I firmly believe he is capable because he showed it.

As for his place in the team, I don't think it is under threat. I'm sure people have players they prefer to Lloyd, who they think are better than Lloyd. But when half your value to the team is in the experience and nous you provide to an entire defensive system, that is not so easy to replace by any of your less-experienced underlings.
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Love these deep dives. Don't agree with every word but enjoy the insight and passion. Always good to remember that Lloyd played the 2014 GF on the wing and many would say the old fashioned wing is his natural place. You call it as attacking HBF and I reckon I agree.
 
caesar88 said:
My off-season deep-dive #9 is Jake Llllllllloooooyyyyyddd.

Because what Grand Uncle Horace wants, he gets.

Disclaimer: Jake Lloyd is my second-favourite current Swans player. We are entering scary territory where my two current favourite Swans are both going to be on the wrong side of 30 by the end of this year, and the only one I have a near-equal love for (Robbie Fox) isn't much better.

It's hard to talk about Jake Lloyd's game without talking about the coaches, because it's largely been through their sphere that we've evaluated Lloyd's career. One of our most prolific players ever no doubt, but with very few highlights; dismissed by the All Australian selectors, barely recognised outside of the Swans in anything other than a Fantasy/Supercoach context. And yet he's a two-time Bob Skilton Medallist, as well as a two-time runner-up.

As mentioned in the comment above, Lloyd got the 4th-most B&F votes from the coaches after round 18, when we went 8-1, won three games against top 4 sides and two finals, and when our back-line was at it's best, the best it's been since at least 2017/2018, when we still had prime-Rampe, Grundy, Smith, etc. The only players who got more votes in that period were all inside mids: Rowbottom, Parker, Mills.

Clearly the coaches are seeing something that many fans are not.

I think there's two factors for this disconnect: Lloyd's strengths are the unseen things; his weaknesses are the most visible of things.

He's outstanding at pushing from contest to contest, always staying involved, providing the outlet, marshalling the ball out to the more dangerous users such as Florent, Blakey and Fox (akin to the role that Pendlebury was playing at HB with Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, etc.) These things aren't flashy, and indeed his running patterns and constant movement around the contest aren't going to be noticed because people are too busy looking at the contest. He is essentially the glue holding all of the flashier, more eye-catching pieces of our back-line together.

He's not very good in one-on-one contests, and is prone to shanks when kicking in (I miss the running bet that he'd kick one out on the full, under no pressure, every single week for about two years straight.) Unfortunately for Lloyd, these things might only happen a few times a match for him, but when they do, they're wide open, for everyone to see. You can't miss Lloyd putting in a feeble attempt to stop a small forward from marking on the lead; and you can't miss him spraying a kick out of bounds or hitting an opposition player lace-out from the kick-in when literally every eye in the ground is on him.

And these end up what people remember, and find most irritating about Lloyd. And all of the good work he does, ends up falling by the wayside.

This is particularly frustrating for me because for about five years now - going back to the time I infamously called Lloyd a top 50 player in the comp, which Punts absolutely loved - I have believed he shouldn't be used in this way that will constantly get him into trouble. I much prefer him as more of a high half back, getting the handball receive from the kick-in so he can push up through the corridor, or pushing up on the back of the centre bounces for the handball receive with his hard-running, like Shaun Burgoyne and Bachar Houli were doing for their premiership sides.

Hitting short, lead-up targets at full-speed, there are few better Swans at it than Lloyd. Stationary, his kicking is all over the shop. We need him on the move. This is a player who was once regarded as the fittest bloke at the club (I'm not sure if he's faded in this aspect - I haven't heard him mentioned in 2k time trial conversations in a few years now?) We should have him covering the ground, using his running power to put opposition forwards to work. Not putting HIM to work on THEM.

As I mentioned in another thread, hopefully the emergence of Blakey, Florent and potentially Campbell (dunno about this one) will alleviate Lloyd of his small defender/last-line-of-defence possession-getter status, and get him playing as a true half back flanker again, using the wings and the corridors like he did at his absolute best several years ago before he started getting pushed deeper into defence. He will still be able to be coordinator and the key cog in our defensive transitions, so all of his unseen work will still be first-rate, but he can step out into the light and shine a bit more as well. I firmly believe he is capable because he showed it.

As for his place in the team, I don't think it is under threat. I'm sure people have players they prefer to Lloyd, who they think are better than Lloyd. But when half your value to the team is in the experience and nous you provide to an entire defensive system, that is not so easy to replace by any of your less-experienced underlings.
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Good post - but I still don't feel entirely clear about why Lloyd is so highly valued. Calling him the glue is easy to do but doesn't really illuminate what he does so well that the coaches ask of him and others don't. I do think it's something about consistency, mental strength, concentration, physical endurance. These are his assets.

I'm impressed he's your second favourite player.

I'm glad we share a favourite player. My second favourite has been Errol from near the moment he arrived. Was a bigger call back then than it is now.
 
Callipygian said:
Good post - but I still don't feel entirely clear about why Lloyd is so highly valued. Calling him the glue is easy to do but doesn't really illuminate what he does so well that the coaches ask of him and others don't. I do think it's something about consistency, mental strength, concentration, physical endurance. These are his assets.

I'm impressed he's your second favourite player.

I'm glad we share a favourite player. My second favourite has been Errol from near the moment he arrived. Was a bigger call back then than it is now.
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I think he's the glue in the back six because there's an art to being in the right place at the right time. It takes the smarts to know where to be for the loose ball and the fitness to actually always be there for that loose ball. If one of the flashier players, like Blakey or Florent, are getting that ball, then they're not in the dangerous positions to receive it.

I probably do suck at explaining it, but I guess the most simplest way I could
put it is this: watch how many of Florent/Blakey/Campbell's possessions come directly from Lloyd this year, and where they are getting those possessions.

As for our favourites, I'm equally impressed that you found a second-favourite so quickly. Mine typically have to wear me down for a few years before I'm finally won over and let them into my winner's circle.

I am naturally drawn to very likeable players who let their footy do the talking, and don't need to be a "character" to be entertaining. Typically these types end up being very fundamental, not at all flashy types (such as Lloyd and George Hewett.) But it's really difficult to find such players in our current team, as they're all so talented, and they've all got a bit of spunk about them. I'd say the three who fit the bill most would be Heeney, Rowbottom, and Gulden. Heeney probably the one who has done the most to earn my favouritism, as he's been around the longest.
 
The King! said:
Opposition teams will stop guys like florent

They don't care if lloyd has it 30 times
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Probably. And that would be their mistake.

In that period mentioned above where Lloyd got the most B&F votes out of any defender (and the 4th-most in total), Lloyd only averaged 21.9 disposals. That was less than his whole season average of 24.7 disposals, and the lowest he'd averaged since 2015. But does he need to rack up disposals anymore if the ones he does get are going to the right players?

Worth remembering that Leon Cameron ran a tagger on Lloyd in the elimination final in 2021, and our transitions from defence that day were ass. Dawson and McInerney had arguably their worst games for the season.

Tagging to effect system is always more effective than tagging to effect an individual and it astounds me that coaches don't seem to learn from this.
 
caesar88 said:
Probably. And that would be their mistake.

In that period mentioned above where Lloyd got the most B&F votes out of any defender (and the 4th-most in total), Lloyd only averaged 21.9 disposals. That was less than his whole season average of 24.7 disposals, and the lowest he'd averaged since 2015. But does he need to rack up disposals anymore if the ones he does get are going to the right players?

Worth remembering that Leon Cameron ran a tagger on Lloyd in the elimination final in 2021, and our transitions from defence that day were ass. Dawson and McInerney had arguably their worst games for the season.

Tagging to effect system is always more effective than tagging to effect an individual and it astounds me that coaches don't seem to learn from this.
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I think Geelong tagged our system in the GF.

Turned us into individuals with no team structure.
 
caesar88 said:
I think he's the glue in the back six because there's an art to being in the right place at the right time. It takes the smarts to know where to be for the loose ball and the fitness to actually always be there for that loose ball. If one of the flashier players, like Blakey or Florent, are getting that ball, then they're not in the dangerous positions to receive it.

I probably do suck at explaining it, but I guess the most simplest way I could
put it is this: watch how many of Florent/Blakey/Campbell's possessions come directly from Lloyd this year, and where they are getting those possessions.

As for our favourites, I'm equally impressed that you found a second-favourite so quickly. Mine typically have to wear me down for a few years before I'm finally won over and let them into my winner's circle.

I am naturally drawn to very likeable players who let their footy do the talking, and don't need to be a "character" to be entertaining. Typically these types end up being very fundamental, not at all flashy types (such as Lloyd and George Hewett.) But it's really difficult to find such players in our current team, as they're all so talented, and they've all got a bit of spunk about them. I'd say the three who fit the bill most would be Heeney, Rowbottom, and Gulden. Heeney probably the one who has done the most to earn my favouritism, as he's been around the longest.
Click to expand...
I very much like these in depth player reviews. For many reasons. But I will not go into those.

Jake lloyd. I remember watching him in the ressies. He had his hand on the opposition when defending. Then when we got the ball he was immediately 25m away demanding the ball. How can you be in two places at the same time. It amazed me. Always been a fan.
 
One of the best games I've seen him play. Was an absolute brick wall back there, probably the only Swan who didn't let anything get past him. Clean and poised. Reminded me of Robbie Fox in the GF (minus the key forward match-up.)
 
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