VFL Past #54: Nick O'Brien - returning to play for Essendon VFL in 2017!

[Duckworth]

It's void because we don't really need to do it if our pressure is good enough. I don't want Crameri wasted on that role. Or Winderlich. We showed against West Coast (one of the three times a year he plays that role) that we don't need it.

Every forward has a defensive role when we don't have the ball. This is the way that you build forward pressure. The reason a defensive forward is needed, is when the ball is bombed in there and is rebounded way too easily. Having someone stop the oppositions main go to guy, can be an effective tactic in keeping the ball in. Conversely, this doesn't mean that the player, doesn't also have offensive responsibilities as well.

 

[eth-dog]

Every forward has a defensive role when we don't have the ball. This is the way that you build forward pressure. The reason a defensive forward is needed, is when the ball is bombed in there and is rebounded way too easily. Having someone stop the oppositions main go to guy, can be an effective tactic in keeping the ball in. Conversely, this doesn't mean that the player, doesn't also have offensive responsibilities as well.

Exactly. My point is that it's unnecessary if we have the forward pressure we showed against West Coast, Freo, Carlton etc in the first 14 weeks. Where did I ever say that they didn't have offensive responsibilities? I just said it hampered his offensive talent

 

[ghostdog]

That doesn't mean that a particular defensive role on a particular player is out of the question though either. The job Welsh did on Scarlett is a good example and was instrumental in our defeat of Geelong a couple of years ago. As I said, it wouldn't surprise me if it's Crameri who gets that job when it is required. I also never said that the role would mean not playing offensively either.

 

[Keystone agony]

Defensive forwards like Monfries, Eddy, Petrenko, Wellingham (to degree) are important and have been shown to be liked by our coaching staff.

There is no way you will win if you let Enright, Hurn, Duffield, Suckling have 30 kicks each.

Im not sure if anyone watched the game of crows vs cats when the cats needed a win more than ever people thought they would at adelaide oval, for the first time in a long time they were made to look second rate by a well drilled adelaide side, with Petrenko keeping Enrights impact to its lowest of the entire year, cats inturn got thumped.

 

[yaco55]

Winderlich will play the Monfries role - And will perform the role more effectively - Winderlich keeps his feet and can chase down opponents.

 

[ghostdog]

Winderlich will play the Monfries role - And will perform the role more effectively - Winderlich keeps his feet and can chase down opponents.

Crameri keeps his feet, can chase down opponents and challenge contested ball more strongly. It'll be Crameri.

 

[Keystone agony]

Crameri keeps his feet, can chase down opponents and challenge contested ball more strongly. It'll be Crameri.

Crameris our best forward aswell

Opposition will be targeting him, he wont be targeting the opposition

 

[yaco55]

Crameri keeps his feet, can chase down opponents and challenge contested ball more strongly. It'll be Crameri.

Crameri is suspect on the defensive side, and he is too important to be mainly used as a defensive weapon.

 

[ghostdog]

Crameris our best forward aswell

Opposition will be targeting him, he wont be targeting the opposition

You don't think Hurley's there yet?, or don't think Hurley will play forward?

 

[ghostdog]

Crameri is suspect on the defensive side, and he is too important to be mainly used as a defensive weapon.

In what ways do you think Crameri's defence is sus? I can't recall specific instances but the overall impression I have of him is of someone who runs hard both ways and is very hard at contested situations. My lack of technical knowledge is probably exposed here. I agree he's important in attack... perhaps Winders' goal kicking cameo v. Port(?) wasn't enough to press his credentials.

 

[daz17]

In what ways do you think Crameri's defence is sus? I can't recall specific instances but the overall impression I have of him is of someone who runs hard both ways and is very hard at contested situations. My lack of technical knowledge is probably exposed here. I agree he's important in attack... perhaps Winders' goal kicking cameo v. Port(?) wasn't enough to press his credentials.

Adelaide. Only lasted 3 quarters as well.

 

[Keystone agony]

You don't think Hurley's there yet?, or don't think Hurley will play forward?

Hurleys still got to prove himself a little more for me yet, but he will certainly make it or "be there" as you said. I still think Crameri is every bit as good and you dont get your best or second best genuine forward to a defensive position where he focuses on the likes of Enright, Hurn, Duffield ect. These teams will need to worry about Crammers not the other way around.

Hurley and Winders have shown in a few games they have the ability to become good forwards but they are anything but a good thing or id say proven yet. I expect a few essendon fans to reply to this, but they havnt consecutively put together good performances as a forward. Hurley against the hawks a few years ago, against the dogs and freo last year unfortunately they are just too far apart to put him in the same category as like a T.Walker or J.Darling who have put together consistent years as forwards.

For me Winders has the discipline required, hes also a great leadup mark for his size. Hes ageing and i feel a challenge like this could be what he needs in his career right now, hed still be hitting the scoreboard like Monfries did in the past 2 years.

 

[Childish Gambino]

What exactly is the Monfries role?

Monfries had a very limited skill set and to make it at AFL he had to develop his defensive side. Winderlich's attacking game is a hell of a lot better than Monfries meaning his defender will have pay a lot more respect to him and less chance of hurting him going the other way. The same can be said for Crameri.

 

[ghostdog]

Hurleys still got to prove himself a little more for me yet, but he will certainly make it or "be there" as you said. I still think Crameri is every bit as good and you dont get your best or second best genuine forward to a defensive position where he focuses on the likes of Enright, Hurn, Duffield ect. These teams will need to worry about Crammers not the other way around.

Hurley and Winders have shown in a few games they have the ability to become good forwards but they are anything but a good thing or id say proven yet. I expect a few essendon fans to reply to this, but they havnt consecutively put together good performances as a forward. Hurley against the hawks a few years ago, against the dogs and freo last year unfortunately they are just too far apart to put him in the same category as like a T.Walker or J.Darling who have put together consistent years as forwards.

For me Winders has the discipline required, hes also a great leadup mark for his size. Hes ageing and i feel a challenge like this could be what he needs in his career right now, hed still be hitting the scoreboard like Monfries did in the past 2 years.

Hurley is an interesting case. I'd think he'd still attract the best defender simply because he has the potential to kick 5 goals+ and break a game open. He's shown he can be a livewire of given the opportunity, and his 6 against Freo I think we all recognise is only a glimpse of what he can do. No opposition coach would want to be the one Hurley has a breakout game against - can't believe I used that turn of phrase for a guy who has kicked 6 in a game. You're right in thinking that it's about consistency. That said, I don't think we've seen that level of consistency from Crameri yet either. He's consistently in the goal kickers list, but barely beyond three goals, which would be along the same lines as Monfries. Crameri is similar to Hurley, though, in that they both seem to be likely to kick a bag. In the forward stakes, though, I'd say both Hurley and Crameri have shown more than Winderlich.

 

[yaco55]

Think Hurley is being sold a bit short - Doubt that he will ever be a massive goal kicker, but will be the player who sets up plenty of goals.

The fact is that he came fourth in the 2011 B and F - And had the best vote average per game.

 

[ghostdog]

I think he can, but it will depend on who else is forward, to take the pressure, and midfield, for quality disposal.

2012 v Freo: 6.1 +15 disposals. Myers and Stanton 28 disposals each, Watson 27.
2012 v WB: 5.1 + 22 disposals. That night Hocking collected 27, Howlett 26, Stanton 29 and Watson 30.

I know this doesn't tell us who delivered inside fifty how many times, but it gives you an idea of the opportunities and Hurley's potential. When you consider that the forward line could include any number of an improved Crameri, fit Gumby and JD, Hurley could well get more opportunities to kick bags, so he could become a massive goal kicker.

Good number of disposals for Hurley in each of those two games as well; no stat on goal assists

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Howlett is probably the least likely mid to spend any amount of significant time forward.

 

[efcboy]

re the defensive forward position - why not have a resting midfielder play this role? for example if myers and hocking rotated between midfield and half-forward they would be ideal. they have defensive capabilities and get a rest from midfield whilst doing so. in myers case he's also got a raking left foot that could sneak some goals in or allow a one-on-one contest by going long from half forward. goddard is another that could also do it when resting from midfield.

 

[Keystone agony]

What exactly is the Monfries role?

Monfries had a very limited skill set and to make it at AFL he had to develop his defensive side. Winderlich's attacking game is a hell of a lot better than Monfries meaning his defender will have pay a lot more respect to him and less chance of hurting him going the other way. The same can be said for Crameri.

Based on what exactly?

 

[Keystone agony]

People get to caught up in what people can be ie"potential" rather than actual performance on paper, that has already been performed. I remember before this year the 2 big names being talked up as the next big things were Sam Reid and Michael Hurley how quickly that thunder stopped.

Crammers has done more than Hurley as a forward. I agree that Hurley may have a slightly higher upside although im still not sure about that.

Again Monfries has shown much more attacking side and offense than Winders.

Lets not get too caught up in the potential side of things.

 

[yaco55]

KA

You are wrong about Winderlich - When he played the first 3/4 games in 2011 as a defensive forward - He kicked goals, was leading for Goal assists - And in his nearly two games in 2012 - He was excellent in the second game kicking 4 goals.

The big if with Winderlich is staying on the park.

I would still have Hurley in front of Crameri - Hurley had a very good 2011 - played half back/forward - And got the most B and F votes per average game.

Anyway if my hopes come to fruition Winderlich/Crameri/Hurley will all have big seasons.

 

[Childish Gambino]

Based on what exactly?

Yaco summed it up nicely.

 

[Keystone agony]

So a player who has played 3 good quarters forward is thus better than a player who ever since he debuted has been avg 1 goal a game kicking around and over 20 each season is proven better offensively?

Winders - unproven
Monfries - proven

 

[Rack Watts]

This thread is now about Winderlich and Monfries.
Lol, no I am kidding, we need some more Moose.

 

[dools81]

The bombers sure have a really top kid in Nick O'Brien.

I was lucky enough to play a number of senior games with Nick in the Lexton Plains 2009 and 2010 seasons (mainly 2009). IMO Carngham Linton's best player in the losing senior Grand Final side in 2009. He is a really top bloke that shows genuine interest in everybody that he talks to. I'm really pleased he made it onto an AFL list, and I hope he has a break-out year in 2013.

He is a brilliant kid and I'm going to stick my neck out and say he will be the next Essendon captain after Jobe Watson gives up the captaincy. A leader that will help take the bombers very far in the seasons to come...