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Conspiracy Theory 9/11 - The debate continues
- Thread starter The Old Dark Navy's
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^ Thanks Bloods. 
I was just about to post one of those!
BVT, did you google 50 tonne hydraulic press and come up with a whole heap of small-ish looking pieces of machinery? Then decided....I'll search 30 tonne hydraulic press and see what shows up! Hey look! A big green thing! Let's post that image!
Nice try.
* No seismic readings from explosive devices
* No sound of explosions heard from witnesses
* Failure of penthouse section well before the rest of building
* Demolition experts who witnessed the collapse from nearby knew it was about to collapse
* No physical evidence of explosives
Not to mention all the logistical issues involved with rigging the building and silencing all those involved.
There is no evidence that makes the collapse impossible from physical damage and fires alone. Saying that it fell very fast does not make it impossible. How fast should it have fallen? How much resistance was provided from the weakened and already partially collapsed internal columns?
I know for a fact that you do not know the answer to these questions, so you are not in a position to conclusively say that it was an impossible scenario. In fact, were it possible to know the exact inner workings of WTC7 in the minutes and seconds before and during collapse, we may find that the collapse time was exactly as expected. A short period of freefall would be expected under certain situations.
Collapse from fire and physical damage is a million times more plausible than anything else.
I was just about to post one of those! BVT, did you google 50 tonne hydraulic press and come up with a whole heap of small-ish looking pieces of machinery? Then decided....I'll search 30 tonne hydraulic press and see what shows up! Hey look! A big green thing! Let's post that image!
Nice try.
Of course WTC7 looks a bit strange to both a casual observer and a structural engineer. But if anyone was to look at it from a demolition standpoint, they would also find many oddities.
* No seismic readings from explosive devices
* No sound of explosions heard from witnesses
* Failure of penthouse section well before the rest of building
* Demolition experts who witnessed the collapse from nearby knew it was about to collapse
* No physical evidence of explosives
Not to mention all the logistical issues involved with rigging the building and silencing all those involved.
There is no evidence that makes the collapse impossible from physical damage and fires alone. Saying that it fell very fast does not make it impossible. How fast should it have fallen? How much resistance was provided from the weakened and already partially collapsed internal columns?
I know for a fact that you do not know the answer to these questions, so you are not in a position to conclusively say that it was an impossible scenario. In fact, were it possible to know the exact inner workings of WTC7 in the minutes and seconds before and during collapse, we may find that the collapse time was exactly as expected. A short period of freefall would be expected under certain situations.
Collapse from fire and physical damage is a million times more plausible than anything else.
The Old Dark Navy's
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- #178
Very informative. They are right of course, they don't need to speculate about how wtc7 fell down, but they know enough to talk about whether explosives were involved in any of the tower collapses and what it would have taken to make it happen.
Is there a counter argument to this anywhere, or is the machine shop and accounts of rubble and walls hitting people supposed to suggest it wasn't jet fuel or falling elevators that causes the chaos, therefore it was an inside job. I mean, is this loose piece of information the new smoking gun here?
- Oct 14, 2006
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I have to admit I have skimmed some of this stuff ...
The truther arguments have been absolutely embarrassed from what I can see and it suprises me anyone from that side is even turning up anymore ...
Let me say this at this stage. I have remained consistent right along that the science is far and away on the side of the official story and it was always going to catch up with this debate. I truly hope however, that the people involved (regardless of their view) have an interest in this that comes from an interest in the truth that is strong enough to persist in the obvious bias towards information supporting the official side of things.
As I I have said before this is and for a long while, the truth is far from something anyone should accept based on the silly planted facts, because the human side of things points (and quite strongly) points quite obviously towards the opposite side of this.
911 was at an absolute minimum a combination of US covert support and Al Qaeda actioning (at best) I just hope some of you guys can see that side by now ...
The truther arguments have been absolutely embarrassed from what I can see and it suprises me anyone from that side is even turning up anymore ...
Let me say this at this stage. I have remained consistent right along that the science is far and away on the side of the official story and it was always going to catch up with this debate. I truly hope however, that the people involved (regardless of their view) have an interest in this that comes from an interest in the truth that is strong enough to persist in the obvious bias towards information supporting the official side of things.
As I I have said before this is and for a long while, the truth is far from something anyone should accept based on the silly planted facts, because the human side of things points (and quite strongly) points quite obviously towards the opposite side of this.
911 was at an absolute minimum a combination of US covert support and Al Qaeda actioning (at best) I just hope some of you guys can see that side by now ...
What evidence points to this, and what supposed benefit does Al Qaeda get out of it?
How are these two things consistent?
More importantly, on what do you base the second para?
The Old Dark Navy's
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I agree. I was in the midst of a response knowing that H2F has been an advocate for the truther argument in the past and read the opening line as the official argument being embarrassed, and only noticed what he did write when I went to submit it. I did a double take.
It reads like he has accidentally reversed 'truther' and 'official' in the earlier paragraphs when you read the last paragraph.
The Old Dark Navy's
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I agree but that claim is pretty standard fare for most truther sites.
Either way, if the science supports the official story and the other side have been embarrassed, then you can't really make the claim in the last paragraph. If the official story has been embarrassed, then there is no point in reading beyond the first paragraph.
Blight von Torp
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I'm beaten. Forget what we see from the actual footage. The evidence is compelling ...
Are you referring to this??
BOOOM!!!
The Old Dark Navy's
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^^
Why would I be referring to that? No explosives were used there, and the report waspy keeps linking to explains exactly why.
Why would I be referring to that? No explosives were used there, and the report waspy keeps linking to explains exactly why.
Hawks1523
Brownlow Medallist
I've read and watched a lot of videos, reports, theories, on 9/11. At the end of the day, nobody can prove 100% without doubt their side of the event. And healthy debate on the topics fine, I read through 10 pages of this thread.. but come on.. how sad is it that people resort to personal attacks for disagreeing on opinion.
You can not confirm, without doubt that it was an inside job. Just as you can't confirm, without doubt that it wasn't. But personal attacks make everone look pathetic. JMTC.
You can not confirm, without doubt that it was an inside job. Just as you can't confirm, without doubt that it wasn't. But personal attacks make everone look pathetic. JMTC.
I wish to apologise to all ,if I was the main offender?, in being rude or perpetrator of ad hominem attack.
In particular, I apologise to:
Bloods- we have a long history of disagreement .Mainly in his “NWMBloods” guise. It is was more to do with his clever “cunning” debating tactics and lack of substance, but that is forgiven, and is actually sort of admired .
ODN- again we disagree regularly, but if any offence was inferred, I withdraw such unconditionally.
Waspy- I like anyway coz he is so smart!
I tried for a long time to stay away from the pointless silly debate, but felt BVT ....needed some help ....from the circling ganging up, Offical CT, back slapping pack of wolves.
Anyway…the GOOD NEWS IS… you lot have thoroughly convinced me to change my mind. THANKYOU!
I am no longer a "Truther" .....but a born again "Truster"
Just incase some deluded fool falls into the trap of doubting USA politics then in the post below I give a somewhat long detailed account of how my new found BF friends..have convinced me .....and shown me the path to the glorious "light"!
In particular, I apologise to:
Bloods- we have a long history of disagreement .Mainly in his “NWMBloods” guise. It is was more to do with his clever “cunning” debating tactics and lack of substance, but that is forgiven, and is actually sort of admired .
ODN- again we disagree regularly, but if any offence was inferred, I withdraw such unconditionally.
Waspy- I like anyway coz he is so smart!
I tried for a long time to stay away from the pointless silly debate, but felt BVT ....needed some help ....from the circling ganging up, Offical CT, back slapping pack of wolves.
Anyway…the GOOD NEWS IS… you lot have thoroughly convinced me to change my mind. THANKYOU!
I am no longer a "Truther" .....but a born again "Truster"
Just incase some deluded fool falls into the trap of doubting USA politics then in the post below I give a somewhat long detailed account of how my new found BF friends..have convinced me .....and shown me the path to the glorious "light"!
"Twoofers" take note:
I now see clearly:
When Condi Rice announced within the week before9/11 that they had “intelligence” suggesting an imminent attack on US soil .It is now obvious to me why there wasn’t elevated security at airports and WTC complex !
*Clearly the confusion was due to the Pres. Dubbya’s bother was a director on the several of security companies then they could have expected him to arrange all that!
Clearly barely literate Arab folk who struggled with learning to fly a small Cessna, would have no trouble flying bigger airliners with seeming skill!
**Gee whiz, they are more expensive, so I gather they must be easier to fly!?
The mystery of why NORAD were conducting terrorist drills that very day taking strike capacity away and diverting air traffic control attention.
***Surely, that would have expected the nasty AQ terrorists to fly in over the Atlantic and it would be better to shoot em down over water!
****This also explains why there were no armed defence jets ready to scramble on the nearby air bases!
Also the miracle of intact terrorist passportsand bandanas is easily explained.
*****Clearly the AQ nutters , had a developed secret potion which they sprayed on their some of their stolen passports also on bandanas. It must be stuff they can easily resist massive collision and fire and makes them stronger than a 110 story skyscraper and 767 jet! My guess is it is an opium derivative developed in Afghanistan.
I am still not sure why they didn’t spray it on themselves? But perhaps it doesn’t work on skin? Or, maybe they really were looking forward to Allah’s…reward of 70virgins?
It makes sense to me NOW why there was only a 16 ft hole in the Pentagon and no wing damage marks like on WTC1!
******Clearly in doing that prior 6G , 330 deg manoeuvre, which is nearly impossible in a 757, caused the wings to snap off and shatter into dust, prior to the missile like impact!
Gee we can’t blame the FBI for gathering up all video tapes even from service stations, and not returning them or releasing footage of the actaual 757, UAF75 impact!
*******Hell it is evidence and everyone knows law enforcement people have a long history of a horrible problem of losing “classified”evidence!. Or maybe they just couldn’t remember which tape belonged to who? Anyway it would cause further distress to release any actual footage anyway it must be withheld pending court cases at Guantanamo Bay!
It took me a long time to understand the apparent complete disappearance of F 93, 767 jet in Shanksville with barely any major fire!
********However , encouraged by my new found BF friends, I was encouraged to undertake forensic scientific research! Clearly scientists think there is such a thing as a “BLACK hole”. Now I’m no scientist…. but the impact zone did look a little bit black! The massive airliner was swallowed up under massive gravitational pressure (except for the bits found 8miles away)!
With sincere thanks to my BF friend “Waspy” I now understand why all those witnesses of massive basement (and other places) “explosions” prior to collapse. Especially that Scott Forbes blokes assertions of “power downs” , relaxed security and reports of seeing strange blokes with cables at WTC prior to 911. Similarly, that Rodriguez blokes “eye witness” accounts.
**********Clearly, they were suffering, psychotic delusion as part of the post traumatic stress of the incident and are now can certainly be assumed to be , just mad money hungry attention seeking… liars!
It is no longer a mystery why Pres Dubbya whilst his nation was under attack stayed in a primary school reading a story about a silly goat!
************As the most powerful and intelligent person on the planet!, he could have assumed the mad terrorists would want to assassinate him!
The clear answer is that it was the very last place terrorists would think to look (ie in a be in a 6year old child’s school room). This is just another example of the magnificent defence tactics displayed by USA defence and Secret Services… on 11 September 2001!
Ditto reasons for why Rummy went missing in the crisis . Why tricky Dicky was in a bunker calling the shots and why none of them would give evidence underoath at the 911 Commission inquiry.
*******IT was a TOP SECRET strategy!
I could go on& on & on.... but all EXCEPT FOR THOSE who want to escape the plague of “Twooferism” and desperately want to be a patriotic “Twuster” will likely consider it:
Tl;dr
The moral is don’t doubt.....rather BLINDLY TRUST…. The world is in great shape
This whole 911 thing is that this superman…. Osama Bin Laden and his merry gang ….has proven his ability to out manoeuvre the largest Defence superpower on the planet.
Clearly this is part of his USA Presidential campaign.... and expect him (as they can'tfindhim yet...to run against Obama at the next elections!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I now see clearly:
When Condi Rice announced within the week before9/11 that they had “intelligence” suggesting an imminent attack on US soil .It is now obvious to me why there wasn’t elevated security at airports and WTC complex !
*Clearly the confusion was due to the Pres. Dubbya’s bother was a director on the several of security companies then they could have expected him to arrange all that!
Clearly barely literate Arab folk who struggled with learning to fly a small Cessna, would have no trouble flying bigger airliners with seeming skill!
**Gee whiz, they are more expensive, so I gather they must be easier to fly!?
The mystery of why NORAD were conducting terrorist drills that very day taking strike capacity away and diverting air traffic control attention.
***Surely, that would have expected the nasty AQ terrorists to fly in over the Atlantic and it would be better to shoot em down over water!
****This also explains why there were no armed defence jets ready to scramble on the nearby air bases!
Also the miracle of intact terrorist passportsand bandanas is easily explained.
*****Clearly the AQ nutters , had a developed secret potion which they sprayed on their some of their stolen passports also on bandanas. It must be stuff they can easily resist massive collision and fire and makes them stronger than a 110 story skyscraper and 767 jet! My guess is it is an opium derivative developed in Afghanistan.
I am still not sure why they didn’t spray it on themselves? But perhaps it doesn’t work on skin? Or, maybe they really were looking forward to Allah’s…reward of 70virgins?
It makes sense to me NOW why there was only a 16 ft hole in the Pentagon and no wing damage marks like on WTC1!
******Clearly in doing that prior 6G , 330 deg manoeuvre, which is nearly impossible in a 757, caused the wings to snap off and shatter into dust, prior to the missile like impact!
Gee we can’t blame the FBI for gathering up all video tapes even from service stations, and not returning them or releasing footage of the actaual 757, UAF75 impact!
*******Hell it is evidence and everyone knows law enforcement people have a long history of a horrible problem of losing “classified”evidence!. Or maybe they just couldn’t remember which tape belonged to who? Anyway it would cause further distress to release any actual footage anyway it must be withheld pending court cases at Guantanamo Bay!
It took me a long time to understand the apparent complete disappearance of F 93, 767 jet in Shanksville with barely any major fire!
********However , encouraged by my new found BF friends, I was encouraged to undertake forensic scientific research! Clearly scientists think there is such a thing as a “BLACK hole”. Now I’m no scientist…. but the impact zone did look a little bit black! The massive airliner was swallowed up under massive gravitational pressure (except for the bits found 8miles away)!
With sincere thanks to my BF friend “Waspy” I now understand why all those witnesses of massive basement (and other places) “explosions” prior to collapse. Especially that Scott Forbes blokes assertions of “power downs” , relaxed security and reports of seeing strange blokes with cables at WTC prior to 911. Similarly, that Rodriguez blokes “eye witness” accounts.
**********Clearly, they were suffering, psychotic delusion as part of the post traumatic stress of the incident and are now can certainly be assumed to be , just mad money hungry attention seeking… liars!
It is no longer a mystery why Pres Dubbya whilst his nation was under attack stayed in a primary school reading a story about a silly goat!
************As the most powerful and intelligent person on the planet!, he could have assumed the mad terrorists would want to assassinate him!
The clear answer is that it was the very last place terrorists would think to look (ie in a be in a 6year old child’s school room). This is just another example of the magnificent defence tactics displayed by USA defence and Secret Services… on 11 September 2001!
Ditto reasons for why Rummy went missing in the crisis . Why tricky Dicky was in a bunker calling the shots and why none of them would give evidence underoath at the 911 Commission inquiry.
*******IT was a TOP SECRET strategy!
I could go on& on & on.... but all EXCEPT FOR THOSE who want to escape the plague of “Twooferism” and desperately want to be a patriotic “Twuster” will likely consider it:
Tl;dr
The moral is don’t doubt.....rather BLINDLY TRUST…. The world is in great shape
This whole 911 thing is that this superman…. Osama Bin Laden and his merry gang ….has proven his ability to out manoeuvre the largest Defence superpower on the planet.
Clearly this is part of his USA Presidential campaign.... and expect him (as they can'tfindhim yet...to run against Obama at the next elections!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Old Dark Navy's
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- #192
A bunch of misrepresented facts and ones that explanations have been offered for prior to now. Seems Corpuscles is becoming bitter and repetitive.
Corpuscles, I would accept your apology if I had at any time felt hurt or discouraged by your words. However, they have pretty much been a sideshow ... and everyone loves a good sideshow. Apology not required.
Corpuscles, I would accept your apology if I had at any time felt hurt or discouraged by your words. However, they have pretty much been a sideshow ... and everyone loves a good sideshow. Apology not required.
^ thanks my new, bro's.
Kind words, indeed!
I look forward to your next exciting episode!
Kind words, indeed!
I look forward to your next exciting episode!
Not surprised. No one likes to be held accountable, or testify under oath, especially politicians. Must be nice to have a job where you can hide your screw ups by saying "Cant explain. National Security"
The questions that need answering is how come Kerosene can melt steel but not burn dry grass.
Are you taking about the Pentagon lawn or the grass at Shanksville?
Both are easily esssssplained
The pentagon
....is one of the highest security important buildings in the world! Surely
you would have noted that by all those surveilience video cameras?...err....second thought..maybe you haven't got the required "TOP SECRET security clearance" to have seen the pictures identifying UAF75..sorry!
US cannot could not afford the risk of any fire nearby. So the "lawn" is actually high tech ceramic artifical stuff!...much stronger than the pathetically weak steel US uses in major contruction projects
Shanksville
..do some research man!
Obviously all those 30,000ft heroic & miraculous cell phone calls interfered with the jets electronics and caused premature dumping of all fuel, prior to being swallowed up by the black hole!
Jeebus.. you "twoothers"... are silly!
