Strategy A proper forward structure

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Chewy316 said:
No he didn't. He said they didn't lead at all and that was by design because (he said) defenders typically zone off the desired leading areas resulting in forwards leading to areas of the field that are hard to score from.

He added that when the ball is moved quickly through the midfield, the forwards have an easier time leading into advantageous positions within the forward 50.
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And that is part of the problem with Hinkley's gameplan. We fall back so deep in defence we have to launch our attacks from 150m away from our goal line giving the opposition time to cover dangerous attacking positions and to win the ball back on the transition.

This is one reason why Collingwood for example feast on us. They prefer to hunt in packs in the middle of the ground, force a turnover and attack from dangerous positions giving little opportunity to get back. Then we get caught in one-on-one contests in defence time and again, or even get out-numbered.
 
Ford Fairlane said:
And that is part of the problem with Hinkley's gameplan. We fall back so deep in defence we have to launch our attacks from 150m away from our goal line giving the opposition time to cover dangerous attacking positions and to win the ball back on the transition.

This is one reason why Collingwood for example feast on us. They prefer to hunt in packs in the middle of the ground, force a turnover and attack from dangerous positions giving little opportunity to get back. Then we get caught in one-on-one contests in defence time and again, or even get out-numbered.
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The strategy as designed by Ken also puts a lot more demand on the half back line and midfield to be attacking weapons to score. Port has a reasonable "points for" but I wouldn't be surprised if Port's forward line kicks close to the least amount of goals collectively to compared to other forward lines in the comp. It is the midfield (Rozee, Butters, JHF, Soldo) in conjunction with the half back line (Houston and Farrell in particular) which consistently hit the scoreboard. It's why when Carlton shut the half back line down last game, Port's avenue to score dropped significantly.

Nothing is going to change until Ken is gone. That being said, I don't think they need a heap of additions in the forward line. They're essentially set with KPFs (Lord, Georgiades and Marshall), whilst Rioli and SPP are two pretty handy small forwards. They need another crumbing forward to kick McEntee out and to demote DBJ to the defensive pressure forward role.
 
RossFC said:
There was a number of incidents where Ratugolea would use his size and brute strength to win the ball.

A lot of times Marshall would just be either soft, or wait for the ball to come to him and a defender would kill the contest.

Insane that these 2 guys are only a few months apart in age.
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More than that, the times he was out of position, he still contested and got a defensive spoil in - bringing the ball to ground.

Marshall just concedes the contest and allows the opposition intercept mark.

It's a massive difference having a forward that just competes for everything, chases and tackles etc etc. compared to someone that's far more passive.

For me, aside from the purple patch 2 seasons ago, Marshall has been a massive disappointment. He's always shown glimpses, and I think his best is absolutely elite, but he's far too inconsistent with it. I don't know if it's due to the multiple concussions, but he seems far too timid and we simply cannot carry that.
 

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Hopefully Esava is a rocket up the arse for Marshall and if he does have to come in he will know he can't afford to half arse it.



ARSE
 
People have short memories. Marshall has a significantly higher ceiling as a player than Esava. Outside of Butters and maybe JHF he is probably our best goal assist player in the team and the one you want the ball in the hands of from 50-70m out. Based on this season's form you could mount an argument that he is fringe best 22 but at his best he is comfortably part of our best forward mix. I have no doubt he is battling psychologically after his concussions but that can be overcome and we shouldn't be discarding him just due to a poor patch in form.
 
Skindy said:
People have short memories. Marshall has a significantly higher ceiling as a player than Esava. Outside of Butters and maybe JHF he is probably our best goal assist player in the team and the one you want the ball in the hands of from 50-70m out. Based on this season's form you could mount an argument that he is fringe best 22 but at his best he is comfortably part of our best forward mix. I have no doubt he is battling psychologically after his concussions but that can be overcome and we shouldn't be discarding him just due to a poor patch in form.
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Hardly short memories - otherwise he would have been dropped much earlier in the season. He has had a poor season aside from a handful of games where he found a tiny bit of form.

Higher ceiling? If Esava learns to kick straight (and I don't see it as an impossible task, his technique and action are actually very pure) - he has the makings of a top notch power forward.

Yes, i'd prefer Marshall with ball in hand 50-70m out, and he's a very clever footballer - all of which is moot if he can't actually mark the ball or win the ball. His once reliable goalkicking has totally gone out the window as well.

I have no doubt he's battling the concussion issues - and i'm not at all suggesting we de-list him. But based on current form and fitness, he does not deserve a spot in the starting side, and unless there are injuries, suspensions or form drops, i'd certainly be keeping him out.
 
Skindy said:
People have short memories. Marshall has a significantly higher ceiling as a player than Esava. Outside of Butters and maybe JHF he is probably our best goal assist player in the team and the one you want the ball in the hands of from 50-70m out. Based on this season's form you could mount an argument that he is fringe best 22 but at his best he is comfortably part of our best forward mix. I have no doubt he is battling psychologically after his concussions but that can be overcome and we shouldn't be discarding him just due to a poor patch in form.
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If the reason he is playing poorly is because he is worried about bumping his head again, then he is shot as a professional footballer and we need to clear the cap space.
 
Having two big targets playing as monster forwards has had such a positive influence on how our forward line functions. Defenders can't just block old Dixon and intercept as Rat has the ability to at least get a spoil in, if not take a pack mark.

I actually really liked seeing Dixon and Rat going up for the same mark (when it's not an obvious lead), because at the very least there's no way the ball is getting intercepted. Marshall just doesn't have the strength. It'll be more important in the finals, too, when there's a lot less space to work in.

We gotta ride this until it's no longer working.
 
Ported said:
Having two big targets playing as monster forwards has had such a positive influence on how our forward line functions. Defenders can't just block old Dixon and intercept as Rat has the ability to at least get a spoil in, if not take a pack mark.

I actually really liked seeing Dixon and Rat going up for the same mark (when it's not an obvious lead), because at the very least there's no way the ball is getting intercepted. Marshall just doesn't have the strength. It'll be more important in the finals, too, when there's a lot less space to work in.

We gotta ride this until it's no longer working.
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Not least because our super predictable game plan now has a wildcard in it.
 
Skindy said:
People have short memories. Marshall has a significantly higher ceiling as a player than Esava. Outside of Butters and maybe JHF he is probably our best goal assist player in the team and the one you want the ball in the hands of from 50-70m out. Based on this season's form you could mount an argument that he is fringe best 22 but at his best he is comfortably part of our best forward mix. I have no doubt he is battling psychologically after his concussions but that can be overcome and we shouldn't be discarding him just due to a poor patch in form.
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Perhaps won't happen this season and rightfully so given its late but Marshall should be developed as a utility in the offseason

He'd be the ideal sub for us. He can run, tackle and deliver inside 50 superbly. He can't take a contested mark, but he reads play really well that he could become a really solid intercept marker.

There'll be games we play where the contested brutes like Esava and Dixon won't pay dividends due to opposition's defensive structure. That's where Marshall can provide a point of difference and uses his forward craft to lead into space, hoping someone chips the ball to him inside 50.

And in games that are done early (win/loss), we can sub Dixon out at 3QT and Marshall can come in. That'd also help keep Dixon fresh and fit which is vital for us.

The only role that would not be a direct sub if we had Marshall is if we were subbing out a small forward. But I'd say we have enough versatility in the team to work something out.
 

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Addy23 said:
Perhaps won't happen this season and rightfully so given its late but Marshall should be developed as a utility in the offseason

He'd be the ideal sub for us. He can run, tackle and deliver inside 50 superbly. He can't take a contested mark, but he reads play really well that he could become a really solid intercept marker.

There'll be games we play where the contested brutes like Esava and Dixon won't pay dividends due to opposition's defensive structure. That's where Marshall can provide a point of difference and uses his forward craft to lead into space, hoping someone chips the ball to him inside 50.

And in games that are done early (win/loss), we can sub Dixon out at 3QT and Marshall can come in. That'd also help keep Dixon fresh and fit which is vital for us.

The only role that would not be a direct sub if we had Marshall is if we were subbing out a small forward. But I'd say we have enough versatility in the team to work something out.
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The gold passes have been put on hold so Marshall must play in the SANFL to get his confidence and fitness back. With his hip operation and now far too many head knocks he is never going to bust packs to create space for the Riolies etc.

There is room for him but only after a brace of games for the Magpies; you do not change winning sides where we must keep Esave in the forward line.
 
JimmyBC said:
He's light years in front of Esava with footskills & smarts.
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His foot skills mean nothing if he's hardly getting the footy. Not to mention his role on the side as a KPF is to command the footy, break even at the contest (at worse) and kick goals. He doesn't do nearly enough of it.

His footy IQ is up there but I'm not convinced his forward craft is better than Esava's right now.

Marshall will always be limited because he can't go body on body and take a contested mark as an outlet coming out of defence, nor will he ever be able to take a contested mark crashing a pack as the ball enters a flooded forward 50.

People have been talking about Marshall's ceiling for 4 years. Outside of 2022, seasons 2020, 2021, 2023 and 2024 all look the bloody same in terms of his production. He has not developed nearly into the player many (myself included) expected of him. And I certainly wouldn't be playing him ahead of Esava or any other KPF in the team right now when the forward line balance finally seems to be working having the 2nd bruiser next to Dixon freeing up their best forward Georgiades to have a significantly advantageous matchup against a lighter hybrid defender.
 
Chewy316 said:
His foot skills mean nothing if he's hardly getting the footy. Not to mention his role on the side as a KPF is to command the footy, break even at the contest (at worse) and kick goals. He doesn't do nearly enough of it.

His footy IQ is up there but I'm not convinced his forward craft is better than Esava's right now.

Marshall will always be limited because he can't go body on body and take a contested mark as an outlet coming out of defence, nor will he ever be able to take a contested mark crashing a pack as the ball enters a flooded forward 50.

People have been talking about Marshall's ceiling for 4 years. Outside of 2022, seasons 2020, 2021, 2023 and 2024 all look the bloody same in terms of his production. He has not developed nearly into the player many (myself included) expected of him. And I certainly wouldn't be playing him ahead of Esava or any other KPF in the team right now when the forward line balance finally seems to be working having the 2nd bruiser next to Dixon freeing up their best forward Georgiades to have a significantly advantageous matchup against a lighter hybrid defender.
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I think Todd's go is playing higher because he's good that kick and a half from goal & delivering inside 50 to others, but he needs to be in form don't get me wrong I wanted him dropped a few weeks back because he looks low on confidence and is just loafing around. I rate Esava in the air always have it's everything else that's an issue his kicking and decision making is a lottery.
 
Chewy316 said:
His foot skills mean nothing if he's hardly getting the footy. Not to mention his role on the side as a KPF is to command the footy, break even at the contest (at worse) and kick goals. He doesn't do nearly enough of it.

His footy IQ is up there but I'm not convinced his forward craft is better than Esava's right now.

Marshall will always be limited because he can't go body on body and take a contested mark as an outlet coming out of defence, nor will he ever be able to take a contested mark crashing a pack as the ball enters a flooded forward 50.

People have been talking about Marshall's ceiling for 4 years. Outside of 2022, seasons 2020, 2021, 2023 and 2024 all look the bloody same in terms of his production. He has not developed nearly into the player many (myself included) expected of him. And I certainly wouldn't be playing him ahead of Esava or any other KPF in the team right now when the forward line balance finally seems to be working having the 2nd bruiser next to Dixon freeing up their best forward Georgiades to have a significantly advantageous matchup against a lighter hybrid defender.
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We need to forget about him being a KPF and play him like Tom Lynch the Adelaide variety..

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
In theory, Marshall is our best KPF.
In practice, he’s our worst.
 
JimmyBC said:
I think Todd's go is playing higher because he's good that kick and a half from goal & delivering inside 50 to others, but he needs to be in form don't get me wrong I wanted him dropped a few weeks back because he looks low on confidence and is just loafing around. I rate Esava in the air always have it's everything else that's an issue his kicking and decision making is a lottery.
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It's not practical to have all of Dixon, Esava and MG playing deeper with Todd playing higher up the park as a HFF. Nor does he deserve to take any of the wing spots ahead of Boak and Burgoyne.

Enviable Tradition said:
We need to forget about him being a KPF and play him like Tom Lynch the Adelaide variety..

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app
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That worked for the Crows because they played Tex and Jenkins deeper, and had Lynch as the 3rd tall. That role is precisely MG's role right now where he gets higher up the ground during play, and it's clearly working given his tremendous output of late.

I don't see how you can put Marshall in that role ahead of any of the other KPFs.

bomberclifford said:
In theory, Marshall is our best KPF.
In practice, he’s our worst.
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Why in theory is he Port's best KPF? He can't take a contested mark to save himself.

MG clearly has the highest ceiling. Could be a Curnow type in future years.
 
JimmyBC said:
Dixon's career will be over in about 5 or 6 weeks, Todd can play high as a roaming forward he has done it before.
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Which then means you're playing MG on the 2nd biggest KPD - a role in which he's probably slightly undersized.

Better off imo grooming Scully or Lord for Dixon's position to maintain the like for like setup.
 

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Strategy A proper forward structure

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