A thread on politics- have some balls and post

[Skoob]

What do you mean by this? What are 'homosexual beliefs'? You been uncritically accepting bullshit rumours again? Honestly, based on some of the shit you read from morons on the internet you'd think kids were being forced to read Judith Butler in primary school. Just for the record though, biological sex and gender aren't the same thing, and yeah gender is socially constructed.

Besides, I'm not sure you get how the public education system in particular works here. There's very little room for deviation from the curriculum, and it's only getting stricter with the increased focus on standardised testing (NAPLAN).


Teaching isn't exactly prioritised here. Little financial reward, highly stressful, little support especially for young teachers. They're taking kids who didn't do well at school, maybe barely passed and did childcare at TAFE first and throwing them into classrooms with little in the way of mentoring or teacher aide support, often in rural/remote schools, overcrowded classrooms, difficult children etc. Not to mention the demands from above. It's not a desirable profession.

In some countries you need a master's to teach. It's not easy and, to be frank, is far more important in the scheme of things than any number of 'prestigious' degrees and professions. Unfortunately we've gone with the american approach of bashing teachers and assuming they're lazy because they get more 'holidays' than others.

I don't subscribe to all of Sizey's rant, but some of what you're saying vindicates some of what he's saying.

Teaching isn't exactly prioritised here. Little financial reward, highly stressful, little support especially for young teachers. They're taking kids who didn't do well at school, maybe barely passed and did childcare at TAFE first and throwing them into classrooms with little in the way of mentoring or teacher aide support

Not necessarily the teachers' fault, but certainly is contributing to a reduction in standards. (Even as long as 30+ years ago, there was a disappointing number of teachers with lower than desired IQ and skills for teaching).
They deserve more pay, but with it must come higher standards. Chicken and the egg stuff though and in the meantime we need the numbers to cope with the load.

 

[Caiphus]

Yeah, how terrible that we are letting kids work out their own identities without ridiculing them for it and that we are giving teachers resources to deal with kids who are struggling on a personal level. Stupid lefty tolerance brainwashing, we should just be able to be rude to whoever we want
and they can deal with the consequences, especially kids - they need a bit of verbal and physical abuse to toughen them up. A bit of bullying never hurt anybody, teaches them some valuable life lessons.

 

[SizeMatters]

Yeah, how terrible that we are letting kids work out their own identities without ridiculing them for it and that we are giving teachers resources to deal with kids who are struggling on a personal level. Stupid lefty tolerance brainwashing, we should just be able to be rude to whoever we want
and they can deal with the consequences, especially kids - they need a bit of verbal and physical abuse to toughen them up. A bit of bullying never hurt anybody, teaches them some valuable life lessons.

I would feel more comfortable if my kid had any issues with this that they saw a professional... a teacher isn't exactly qualified to determine the best course of action and could probably make it worse. Each to their own I guess.

 

[carnthemlions]

I don't subscribe to all of Sizey's rant, but some of what you're saying vindicates some of what he's saying.

Not necessarily the teachers' fault, but certainly is contributing to a reduction in standards. (Even as long as 30+ years ago, there was a disappointing number of teachers with lower than desired IQ and skills for teaching).
They deserve more pay, but with it must come higher standards. Chicken and the egg stuff though and in the meantime we need the numbers to cope with the load.

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing, I was talking mostly about why teaching standards are such a problem here. Don't blame teachers, blame policy makers.
You can thank Anna Bligh for a lot of the current problems with Education QLD for example.

 

[Caiphus]

I would feel more comfortable if my kid had any issues with this that they saw a professional... a teacher isn't exactly qualified to determine the best course of action and could probably make it worse. Each to their own I guess.

Yep sweet, get them into conversion therapy before that homosexual agenda kicks in. That'll fix em.

 

[SizeMatters]

Yep sweet, get them into conversion therapy before that homosexual agenda kicks in. That'll fix em.

k? That was totally what I was saying. Strange post.

 

[Caiphus]

Teachers aren't experts on learning disabilities, socialisation or behavioural problems either, but they are expected to deal with them. If shit is affecting kids well-being and their schooling, as a side effect, it is a teachers job to intervene in a lot of situations they aren't experts in. Many things wouldn't even come to parents attention without teachers noticing and letting them know. Anything to do with LGBTI stuff they shouldn't touch with a ten foot pole though and should be left to the experts...

 

[Viceregal]

Quick question ... when they do all of the 'gender reassignment' therapy and operations etc on is it reversible / not have any long term effects if it is?

I am asking because as a society we generally have looked down on people who try to claim that children are able to make adult decisions about their sexuality (paedophilia no matter how well intended from the adult perspective is seen as child abuse to the other) ... we do not accept minors as capable of making binding legal contracts ... we don't let them vote ... we don't let them drive ... we have an 'age of consent' for sexual interactions ... we make parents responsible / sign off on many things vis a vis their children because they are supposedly the responsible adult etc.

What is it that makes something like gender reassignment so different that it should be considered a legitimate outlier where a child can be considered to make an informed lifelong decision about it?

I get that people want to avoid gender stereotyping and avoid the whole boys do manual arts girls do home economics thing - but that can be (and I believe largely is) dealt with by allowing choices on the part of the students as to the type of study they engage in.

I get that people want to 'normalise' what is by definition a deviation from the norm (normal being that if everybody did it things would still be operational - so anything that would wipe out humanity within a short period if everybody did it is definitely *not* normal) but that is a matter of social engineering and personal ideology and nothing to do with any realistic biological construct. Trying to get the message out that you believe that something is a legitimate option for some is a far different thing that insisting that everyone has to agree with your opinion especially when followed up with the normal punishing of people who do not come to the party.

 

[SizeMatters]

Teachers aren't experts on learning disabilities, socialisation or behavioural problems either, but they are expected to deal with them. If shit is affecting kids well-being and their schooling, as a side effect, it is a teachers job to intervene in a lot of situations they aren't experts in. Many things wouldn't even come to parents attention without teachers noticing and letting them know. Anything to do with LGBTI stuff they shouldn't touch with a ten foot pole though and should be left to the experts...

I'm not saying teachers shouldn't help identify that there is a potential problem (I would very much hope they do!) only you are interpreting my post in such a way I think. However, there is a big difference between intervening as you stated and actually formulating the required method and determining the appropriate response to counter the students problems. Teachers form one piece of a puzzle in helping to identify problems but it's not their job to play the psychologist, doctor or lawyer for example.

 

[Hollow Knight]

. Teachers form one piece of a puzzle in helping to identify problems but it's not their job to play the psychologist, doctor or lawyer for example.

Agreed. What confuses me is how you ended up coming to the belief that they do?

Teachers are almost uniquely accustomed to having their profession critiqued from the outside by the ill informed and I usually wade headfirst into these discussions but all I have been doing is chuckling at the rubbish over the last few pages. It’s so far removed from reality that there is no logical jump on point to add to the discussion.

There is absolute flat-earther and chemtrail levels of fabricated nonsense taking place here. The stuff you are going on about is so ludicrously far removed from the reality of what teaching is actually like. There’s no more diplomatic way to say it Sizey but you’ve drifted into fairy tale land.

You’ve got a bee in your bonnet about gender theory, fair enough, but if you think the education system is where the movement is coming from, you’re mistaken. It’s not on the radar at all.

Mentioning “Safe Schools” is usually a good indicator that someone is coming from a place of profound ignorance and has been hoodwinked by media purple monkey dishwasher.

I think the last figures were that only 3 percent of schools in Australia have ever utilised all or part of the Safe Schools program. And on top of that, the stuff they teach is seemingly far more benign than what hysterical cranks have tried to claim.

I know a lot of teachers and none of them have encountered safe schools in any form. It’s a total windmill for nutters to tilt at.

 

[SizeMatters]

Agreed. What confuses me is how you ended up coming to the belief that they do?

Teachers are almost uniquely accustomed to having their profession critiqued from the outside by the ill informed and I usually wade headfirst into these discussions but all I have been doing is chuckling at the rubbish over the last few pages. It’s so far removed from reality that there is no logical jump on point to add to the discussion.

There is absolute flat-earther and chemtrail levels of fabricated nonsense taking place here. The stuff you are going on about is so ludicrously far removed from the reality of what teaching is actually like. There’s no more diplomatic way to say it Sizey but you’ve drifted into fairy tale land.

You’ve got a bee in your bonnet about gender theory, fair enough, but if you think the education system is where the movement is coming from, you’re mistaken. It’s not on the radar at all.

Mentioning “Safe Schools” is usually a good indicatoe that someone is coming from a place of profound ignorance and has been hoodwinked by media purple monkey dishwasher.

I think the last figures were that only 3 percent of schools in Australia have ever utilised all or part of the Safe Schools program. And on top of that, the stuff they teach is seemingly far more benign than what hysterical cranks have tried to claim.

I know a lot of teachers and none of them have encountered safe schools in any form. It’s a total windmill for nutters to tilt at.

eh? I didn't...

 

[Billy Puller]

I'll happily call most teachers lazy. Seen it with my own two eyes. I'd give teachers more holidays if the standards lifted.

Like Skoob said I'd happily have them paid more. Education needs an overhaul. It's very disheartening to see.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I'll happily call most teachers lazy. Seen it with my own two eyes. I'd give teachers more holidays if the standards lifted.

Oh, well then, if you saw it with your own two eyes...

For the rest of us, teachers are mythical creatures we only read about in story books. Good old Billy with his infinite supply of convenient anecdotes.

In my 19 years in the workforce (including labourer, pharmaceutical warehouse worker drone, office lackey, researcher/PA at a leading property consultancy firm, events organiser for a major medical NFP, economic policy analyst (private and public sector) only four of them have been as a teacher. By far the hardest and most demanding job I've had. Gruelling in ways people on the outside just don't get. I'll leave it there because it's futile trying to get people to understand. You don't even have the mental or emotional energy left at the end of the day to bother trying to convince twits with their preconceived notions, cliches and anecdotal rubbish. Not worth it.

FWIW no one is going to argue against the idea of more pay but I'd much rather have the money spent on smaller class sizes. Would by far be the biggest bang for buck in terms of improving outcomes per dollar spent.

 

[SizeMatters]

Oh, well then, if you saw it with your own two eyes...

For the rest of us, teachers are mythical creatures we only read about in story books. Good old Billy with his infinite supply of convenient anecdotes.

In my 19 years in the workforce (including labourer, pharmaceutical warehouse worker drone, office lackey, researcher/PA at a leading property consultancy firm, events organiser for a major medical NFP, economic policy analyst (private and public sector) only four of them have been as a teacher. By far the hardest and most demanding job I've had. Gruelling in ways people on the outside just don't get. I'll leave it there because it's futile trying to get people to understand. You don't even have the mental or emotional energy left at the end of the day to bother trying to convince twits with their preconceived notions, cliches and anecdotal rubbish. Not worth it.

FWIW no one is going to argue against the idea of more pay but I'd much rather have the money spent on smaller class sizes. Would by far be the biggest bang for buck in terms of improving outcomes per dollar spent.

Good on you for being a teacher that is both physically and emotionally invested but even blind freddy can see that not all teachers are not made equal. Call it 'teacher bashing' and I'll call it reality it happens in every occupation that has ever existed some workers are good some not so. I have no problem with the majority of teachers which might surprise you but I do have a problem with the governing bodies that have allowed our classrooms to become what they are today. Lack of resources, lack of disciplinary options, lacklustre curriculum that stifles innovation and the limiting of our youths creative juices. I really hope what Carnthemlions stated isn't true with regards to - QUOTE: "little room for deviation from the curriculum, and it's only getting stricter with the increased focus on standardised testing (NAPLAN)". Hmm... never liked the NAPLAN program it just adds pressure not only on the students but the teachers and schools involved. Have heard more than a few stories of schools pushing for teachers to teach the exam answers directly which limits a students ability to critically think.

 

[Viceregal]

I had a friend who was looking for mid career change and was thinking about going into teaching. Because I work with Education he asked me about it. I asked him why he had decided on teaching. He said because he was looking for a job with less stress and more free time! Not being an actual teacher but having contact with many of them I broached his concept to them at convenient times in the conversation.

Responses ranged from
- laughter (very common)
- tell him he's dreaming (using the accent from 'The Castle'
- what is one more insane person going to hurt
- is he on something
- you've got to be kidding me
- breakdowns of the actual time spent on education related activity vs face to face classroom teaching
- tears and mentions of wishing they had never heard of teaching
- if it is not a vocation for him tell him to stay away

There was not one single person who recommended the switch. Oh and when they found out his current role was as a non-front line public servant ... ... ...

Admittedly anecdotal but there are a lot of people out there who think that teachers only work four hours a day and pastors only work 1 hour a week (the sermon) etc.

Education, teacher quality, curriculum content, schools, purpose of the education system, value of what is taught, efficacy of the education, consequences for failure to learn etc are all subjects that would be (and are) debated. I would say that any educational system that rewards the ability to pass tests (and teach others to pass them) over the ability to learn (or to teach / impart) the content has flaws - and that you can go through 13 years of schooling and not be expected to have one single skill by the community (can *you* assume that a high school graduate is both literate and numerate?) is ... unfortunate.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Good on you for being a teacher that is both physically and emotionally invested but even blind freddy can see that not all teachers are not made equal. Call it 'teacher bashing' and I'll call it reality it happens in every occupation that has ever existed some workers are good some not so. I have no problem with the majority of teachers which might surprise you but I do have a problem with the governing bodies that have allowed our classrooms to become what they are today. Lack of resources, lack of disciplinary options, lacklustre curriculum that stifles innovation and the limiting of our youths creative juices. I really hope what Carnthemlions stated isn't true with regards to - QUOTE: "little room for deviation from the curriculum, and it's only getting stricter with the increased focus on standardised testing (NAPLAN)". Hmm... never liked the NAPLAN program it just adds pressure not only on the students but the teachers and schools involved. Have heard more than a few stories of schools pushing for teachers to teach the exam answers directly which limits a students ability to critically think.

Agree with most of your points there.

Not sure how teachers can teach the NAPLAN exam answers directly though, as you don't get to see the exam until the day. In the English written component its not even known until the day whether it is going to be a narrative or persuasive piece, let alone knowing what the content or stimulus material is going to be.

We do however do practice NAPLAN tests with previous year's exams, but that can't give them an advantage on the content as it is very different year to year. It's more getting them accustomed to the format and working under exam conditions.

In my experience NAPLAN is largely a minor waste of time and energy. It's basically a week of the school year eaten up for grade 7 and 9, then back to business as usual. The data we get from has some value to teachers though. Parents using accumulated NAPLAN data when shopping for schools is a really silly by-product of the whole exercise.

 

[dizzysquizz]

Definitely made us realise how good we've had it with Gladys, Foley and the various guys they've gotten on for the NSW elections. The guy next to Canavan was a bit less painful, but the other side of the table was a combination of "fellow warrior" and a guy that probably shouldn't be on television yet.

Anthony Chisholm....alp federal senator and former state qld campaign director.

 

[Caiphus]

I think the main problem is that criticism of schools and the education system has led to "common sense" easy answers that have made things markedly worse. The intrinsic value of education has been lost as we've moved towards instrumental education to turn students into good little capitalist worker bees. Most of the talent in students and teachers have been drained into the private system for no tangible benefits above the public system while also losing the benefit of those students cross educating their peers in the public system.

 

[carnthemlions]

I'll happily call most teachers lazy. Seen it with my own two eyes. I'd give teachers more holidays if the standards lifted.

Like Skoob said I'd happily have them paid more. Education needs an overhaul. It's very disheartening to see.

I'm sure you would, it's not like you to make controversial statements you can't back up.

I think the main problem is that criticism of schools and the education system has led to "common sense" easy answers that have made things markedly worse. The intrinsic value of education has been lost as we've moved towards instrumental education to turn students into good little capitalist worker bees. Most of the talent in students and teachers have been drained into the private system for no tangible benefits above the public system while also losing the benefit of those students cross educating their peers in the public system.

This is partly because I've been hearing about it for years, but it seems to me that these days the problems start with early childhood and continue on from there. 'Learning' over play based activity, immediate focus on testing and results.

Also, apparently the private system now receives more funding than the tertiary sector. Nationalise or abolish private schools.

Good on you for being a teacher that is both physically and emotionally invested but even blind freddy can see that not all teachers are not made equal. Call it 'teacher bashing' and I'll call it reality it happens in every occupation that has ever existed some workers are good some not so. I have no problem with the majority of teachers which might surprise you but I do have a problem with the governing bodies that have allowed our classrooms to become what they are today. Lack of resources, lack of disciplinary options, lacklustre curriculum that stifles innovation and the limiting of our youths creative juices. I really hope what Carnthemlions stated isn't true with regards to - QUOTE: "little room for deviation from the curriculum, and it's only getting stricter with the increased focus on standardised testing (NAPLAN)". Hmm... never liked the NAPLAN program it just adds pressure not only on the students but the teachers and schools involved. Have heard more than a few stories of schools pushing for teachers to teach the exam answers directly which limits a students ability to critically think.

No one's saying that all teachers are great and super committed to their jobs. Just that as far as problems in the education system go, this one would have to be about 5th order.

With regard to kids in years 3 and 5- yeah there is a lot of focus on teaching to do well in NAPLAN at times. Just stresses kids out and prevents them from actually learning. The whole thing's a complete waste of time, no surprise that results have a lot to do with family income. And so of course the schools that need resources the least get the most.

 

[Billy Puller]

Oh, well then, if you saw it with your own two eyes...

For the rest of us, teachers are mythical creatures we only read about in story books. Good old Billy with his infinite supply of convenient anecdotes.

In my 19 years in the workforce (including labourer, pharmaceutical warehouse worker drone, office lackey, researcher/PA at a leading property consultancy firm, events organiser for a major medical NFP, economic policy analyst (private and public sector) only four of them have been as a teacher. By far the hardest and most demanding job I've had. Gruelling in ways people on the outside just don't get. I'll leave it there because it's futile trying to get people to understand. You don't even have the mental or emotional energy left at the end of the day to bother trying to convince twits with their preconceived notions, cliches and anecdotal rubbish. Not worth it.

FWIW no one is going to argue against the idea of more pay but I'd much rather have the money spent on smaller class sizes. Would by far be the biggest bang for buck in terms of improving outcomes per dollar spent.

I was teaching in schools it really wasn't that difficult.

What a cop out response. Always first with the name calling too.

Involved in pretty much every SEQ public school and a lot of privates. I'm not basing my statement off of a small sample pool here. Most of them are lazy and don't give a toss about the kids.

 

[Billy Puller]

In some countries teachers are the top totem pole in society. Well respected in their communities?

Here pshhhhh - just like the jokes about Catholic priests being kiddie fiddlers for years before it all started coming out. Stereotypes unfortunately do exist for a reason.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I was teaching in schools it really wasn't that difficult.

What a cop out response. Always first with the name calling too.

Involved in pretty much every SEQ public school and a lot of privates. I'm not basing my statement off of a small sample pool here. Most of them are lazy and don't give a toss about the kids.

Nah.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Involved in pretty much every SEQ public school and a lot of privates.

How many schools in SEQ? Must be over 500. How can you possibly form a well-rounded opinion on every teacher in every school.

What's your job if you don't mind answering?

 

[Skoob]

How many schools in SEQ? Must be over 500. How can you possibly form a well-rounded opinion on every teacher in every school.

What's your job if you don't mind answering?

Q-Build.

 

[Caiphus]

Suck shit Roy Moore and to many low Republican turnouts in the future!